Value of: Caufield vs 2OA

[lwvs84]

are you sure ANA are picking Fantilli is that what Ducks fans want ? dont sleep on Carlsson i think Fantilli peaked earlier but dont be dissapointed if you guys pick Leo i think he will be better in the long run

No one is sure, but Ducks lack physicality, speed, and defense, which Fantilli brings better than Carlsson. Verbeek spent a 1st round pick on a "lesser" defensively capable forward with size and physicality last year (Gaucher) and Fantilli fits that same type of player... except better at everything.

Now Carlsson wouldn't be a bad pick, but Fantilli seems to be more of a goal scorer and Carlsson a playmaker. Ducks have Zegras and Terry who can play wing that are both natural playmakers that can score and McTavish who is a shooter that can make plays. Fantilli seems to balance that out a bit by being another scorer that can make plays and is a change of pace player from McTavish while still being physical (plays at a much higher pace). I think the Ducks (and probably Columbus) are happy with the player that they will draft out of those two, but Fantilli just seems like the more logical choice given what is in the system.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

yes true Fantilli does play more aggresive/grit either way you guys are getting a stud at #2

Was pretty much our goal, getting a top center prospect to go with mctavish as our 1 2 punch…. And then moving zegras to the wing where he should be able to be more effective as a play maker

So you are looking to trade Zellweger eh?

Hell def be first on chopping block…. Personally I’d like to see him as a pro frost

 

[waitin425]

You realize a Canadians fan made the thread, and duck fans want nothing to do with caufield…. If you have ever read the duck boards you’d realize we hate small players

Yeah...This isn't happening. This thread is pure dumb. Fantilli is a magic bag of beans at this point. The difference between him and Will Smith is not a 40 goal scorer.

Im embarassed one of our fans would make this. You guys should be happy with Fantilli. We will take one of Michkov/Carlsson/Smith and be happy.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Yeah...This isn't happening. This thread is pure dumb. Fantilli is a magic bag of beans at this point. The difference between him and Will Smith is not a 40 goal scorer.

Im embarassed one of our fans would make this. You guys should be happy with Fantilli. We will take one of Michkov/Carlsson/Smith and be happy.

Pretty much for us to move that pick it would be an absurd ask, as it should.

Teams in top 5 better off just sticking with their pick, still gunna be a top tier prospect

 

[Adam da bomb]

There is less projections and guessing on Caufield than there is on Fantilli. Still don't mean this is a good trade idea.

Yep but less upside. If both live up to max potential one is a goal scoring phenom the other a franchise level centre. Ducks can afford to take risk.

 

[Grinner]

Yeah...This isn't happening. This thread is pure dumb. Fantilli is a magic bag of beans at this point. The difference between him and Will Smith is not a 40 goal scorer.

Im embarassed one of our fans would make this. You guys should be happy with Fantilli. We will take one of Michkov/Carlsson/Smith and be happy.

The OP didn't include the 5th pick overall in his proposal

 

[FiveTacos]

There is less projections and guessing on Caufield than there is on Fantilli. Still don't mean this is a good trade idea.

Yeah, there's a tendency for some to put way too much on "proven good" vs. projected potentially great. There's still some projection even for Caufield.

I mean, most people have said Fantilli would be a surefire #1 in the vast majority of years. Caufield is hardly the first young player to have a promising start to his career. If it were really as simple as some would believe, 1OA picks would be traded all the time, because plenty of playoff teams who have depth would probably be happy to spare a talented, promising but perhaps not complete player who's on the rise for the #1 overall pick.

But the thing is, teams picking that high would usually rather take a shot at a potential franchise player, than a sure thing of a very good but unlikely franchise player. If even Mtl fans thought Caufield was projecting as a franchise centerpiece, this thread wouldn't even exist.

And the other thing is that so many around here fall into the trap of thinking that because a young player does something good, he's a sure thing to either continue that at minimum or improve. But there are plenty of promising young players who had a really impressive season or two or three ... and that was largely it. Nearly 2 decades ago Oilers fans were asking the moon for a young 33 goal scorer Mike Comrie ("he's a sure bet to develop into a 40 or 50 goal guy!"), but that was honestly as good as it ever got for him. Jimmy Carson scored 141 goals in his first 3 seasons, who knew that'd be more than he'd score the entire remainder of his career? You just really never know, even when you've seen a guy play for a little while.

Right now the Ducks have a promising duo of McTavish and Zegras ... but for all we know in 3-4 years one or both could be a disappointing player being traded as a reclamation project. They'd be crazy to not take Fantilli or Carlsson at this point. just to have another blue chip forward prospect in the bank.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The OP didn't include the 5th pick overall in his proposal

This.

OP wanted to know if a combination of Caufield and Florida's 1st or Montreal's future 1sts would be enough for Anaheim to trade Fantilli. That's an outlandish, hilarious valuation of Caufield - who, I need to be clear, I like a lot, but it's still insane valuation.

 

[waitin425]

This.

OP wanted to know if a combination of Caufield and Florida's 1st or Montreal's future 1sts would be enough for Anaheim to trade Fantilli. That's an outlandish, hilarious valuation of Caufield - who, I need to be clear, I like a lot, but it's still insane valuation.

40 goal scorers don't grow on trees. Particularly ones playing on an inept offensive team. Not as hilarious as you would like to think of it. For all we know Fantilli could be Byfield 2.0.

The "reward" for the Habs between Caufield and Fantilli is not greater the "risk" in my opinion.

 

[CapSpace]

40 goal scorers don't grow on trees. Particularly ones playing on an inept offensive team. Not as hilarious as you would like to think of it. For all we know Fantilli could be Byfield 2.0.

The "reward" for the Habs between Caufield and Fantilli is not greater the "risk" in my opinion.

Finally some common sense.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

40 goal scorers don't grow on trees. Particularly ones playing on an inept offensive team. Not as hilarious as you would like to think of it. For all we know Fantilli could be Byfield 2.0.

The "reward" for the Habs between Caufield and Fantilli is not greater the "risk" in my opinion.

Caufield isn't a 40 goal scorer. He's never scored 40 goals. Hell he's never scored 30 goals. If you think Caufield and a lesser first is going to get any of the teams drafting ahead of the Habs to even pick up the phone, you're outside your mind.

I get Habs fans not wanting to do it, but you surely can understand why Ducks fans have laughed at this offer all thread long - because it's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

40 goal scorers don't grow on trees. Particularly ones playing on an inept offensive team. Not as hilarious as you would like to think of it. For all we know Fantilli could be Byfield 2.0.

The "reward" for the Habs between Caufield and Fantilli is not greater the "risk" in my opinion.

i love Caufield but for #2 i easily make that trade im sure Hughes would also but i wouldlnt add #5

 

[waitin425]

Caufield isn't a 40 goal scorer. He's never scored 40 goals. Hell he's never scored 30 goals. If you think Caufield and a lesser first is going to get any of the teams drafting ahead of the Habs to even pick up the phone, you're outside your mind.

I get Habs fans not wanting to do it, but you surely can understand why Ducks fans have laughed at this offer all thread long - because it's absolutely ridiculous.

Sure, okay. He has scored 48 goals in 83 games since MSL took over. If you don't think that qualifies as a 40 goal scorer, that is your prerogative.

He has been playing at a consistent high level over the equivalent of a full season.

Ducks fans can laugh all they want. Some of us will laugh right back at them,

This is a bad trade for both teams. If I was a Ducks fan, I wouldn't do it either....I'd be licking my chops at acquiring Fantilli. True sign of a bad deal. I would do this as neither a Habs fan nor a Ducks fan.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Sure, okay. He has scored 48 goals in 83 games since MSL took over. If you don't think that qualifies as a 40 goal scorer, that is your prerogative.

He has been playing at a consistent high level over the equivalent of a full season.

Ducks fans can laugh all they want. Some of us will laugh right back at them,

This is a bad trade for both teams. If I was a Ducks fan, I wouldn't do it either....I'd be licking my chops at acquiring Fantilli. True sign of a bad deal. I would do this as neither a Habs fan nor a Ducks fan.

That's *everyone's* prerogative. I like Caufield a lot but until he puts it together over an entire season, he's not a 40 goal scorer, he's a 26 goal scorer that got his season cut short due to trying to play through an injury and making it worse.

Both teams should just draft where they are and be happy. Caufield doesn't have enough value on his to pull top 2 pick without major adds, and the Habs would be silly to make those adds.

 

[BB88]

Sure, okay. He has scored 48 goals in 83 games since MSL took over. If you don't think that qualifies as a 40 goal scorer, that is your prerogative.

He has been playing at a consistent high level over the equivalent of a full season.

Ducks fans can laugh all they want. Some of us will laugh right back at them,

This is a bad trade for both teams. If I was a Ducks fan, I wouldn't do it either....I'd be licking my chops at acquiring Fantilli. True sign of a bad deal. I would do this as neither a Habs fan nor a Ducks fan.

It doesn’t

It’s very different to score 40 goals in a single season than between 2 seasons when there’s a long offseason between

 

[Vachon23]

40 goal scorers don't grow on trees. Particularly ones playing on an inept offensive team. Not as hilarious as you would like to think of it. For all we know Fantilli could be Byfield 2.0.

The "reward" for the Habs between Caufield and Fantilli is not greater the "risk" in my opinion.

If we call Caufield a 40 goals scorer then we can call Fantilli a 2 way PPG player because that's the protection for both players but they still didn't do it yet.

That's the price for Anaheim to listen.. If we had the 2oa pick and other teams fans would ask for it, we would ask for way much then the value of the pick us too because we want to keep it and not trade it. By exemple, if Anaheim offers us Zegras + 30oa pick vs the 2nd pick OA what would be your answer ?

Ask the 32 GM who they would take between Fantilli and Caufield and you will have the same answers from every GM and you won't see any hesitation

 

[waitin425]

If we call Caufield a 40 goals scorer then we can call Fantilli a 2 way PPG player because that's the protection for both players but they still didn't do it yet.

That's the price for Anaheim to listen.. If we had the 2oa pick and other teams fans would ask for it, we would ask for way much then the value of the pick us too because we want to keep it and not trade it

Ask the 32 GM who they would take between Fantilli and Caufield and you will have the same answers from every GM and you won't see any hesitation

That's garbage. Caufield has scored 40 goals over the equivalent of an entire season. It doesn't matter if there is an off-season wedged in between there. This isn't a case of a player going on a brief run. He has been consistent and the likelihood of him keeping it up looks VERY promising.

I do get it. Fantilli's ceiling is higher than Caufields. And that is very enticing. But his floor is much less a certainty than Caufields at this point.

In 2020, no one would have traded 1st or 2nd overall for a Caufield level talent. We all would have laughed. Laf was more hyped than Fantilli is. Yet here we are, 3 years post draft and there is no way I would trade Caufield for either of those guys (Laf and Q).

To put is plainly.....

Fantilli's ceiling is higher than Caufield's.

Fantilli's floor is MUCH lower than Caufield's.

If I was the Ducks I would never entertain this offer.

As a Habs fan....I am very comfortable with Caufield....particularly when we are getting the 2nd best player in this draft anyways! (Michkov )

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

That's garbage. Caufield has scored 40 goals over the equivalent of an entire season. It doesn't matter if there is an off-season wedged in between there. This isn't a case of a player going on a brief run. He has been consistent and the likelihood of him keeping it up looks VERY promising.

I do get it. Fantilli's ceiling is higher than Caufields. And that is very enticing. But his floor is much less a certainty than Caufields at this point.

In 2020, no one would have traded 1st or 2nd overall for a Caufield level talent. We all would have laughed. Laf was more hyped than Fantilli is. Yet here we are, 3 years post draft and there is no way I would trade Caufield for either of those guys (Laf and Q).

To put is plainly.....

Fantilli's ceiling is higher than Caufield's.

Fantilli's floor is MUCH lower than Caufield's.

If I was the Ducks I would never entertain this offer.

As a Habs fan....I am very comfortable with Caufield....particularly when we are getting the 2nd best player in this draft anyways! (Michkov )

How is his floor less than caufields? Out of curiosity

And If that’s how things are viewed then shouldn’t you trade the 5th for an established player cause michkov or smith could be the next turcotte?


Also your not trading for fantilli your trading for the pick so you can still draft carlsson/smith or michkov at 2

 

[waitin425]

How is his floor less than caufields? Out of curiosity

And If that’s how things are viewed then shouldn’t you trade the 5th for an established player cause michkov or smith could be the next turcotte?

It is less because there is a greater degree of uncertainty.

The greatness is the carrot for both Fantilli and whoever we get at 5. That's what keeps the value high and keeps us all hanging on for hope. Much like your reasons for not wanting to trade Fantilli, I would not want to trade 5th overall at this point. Sure...could be the next turcotte or could be the next.....Caufield.

Caufield by many is considered top 5 for a 2019 redraft.

Fantilli could be the next Toews, or he could be the next Byfield.

 

[Vachon23]

That's garbage. Caufield has scored 40 goals over the equivalent of an entire season. It doesn't matter if there is an off-season wedged in between there. This isn't a case of a player going on a brief run. He has been consistent and the likelihood of him keeping it up looks VERY promising.

It does matter, there is a BIG difference between scoring 40 goals in a season and on 2 season. What is tough in scoring 40 goals in 1 season is to have the constancy to do it and battle through injuries, tough schedule, fatigue, mental breakdown. That's the tough part of doing it and that's why it's really not the same thing

In 2020, no one would have traded 1st or 2nd overall for a Caufield level talent. We all would have laughed. Laf was more hyped than Fantilli is. Yet here we are, 3 years post draft and there is no way I would trade Caufield for either of those guys.

Fantilli would have been the #1 pick in 2020. He's just the total package you want in a player: Center, Size, Great skater, great shoot, great 2 way game, physical, high compete level. Type of player you build your franchise around. Lafreniere was great, but he wasn't the skater Fantilli is and he doesn't play a premium position. Laffy was maybe more hype in QC but not in the hockey world. For Byfield, they were a lot of question about him in his draft year and many had Stuzle before him

Fantilli's ceiling is higher than Caufield's.

Fantilli's floor is MUCH lower than Caufield's.

When Fantilli dosen't score, he can contribute in many other ways. When Caufield doesn't score what he brings ? Would't say Caufield floor is higher

As a Habs fan....I am very comfortable with Caufield....particularly when we are getting the 2nd best player in this draft anyways! (Michkov )

Chances are way higher we end-up with Will Smith and Hugo dosen't seem to want to the Michkov risk from my understanding

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

It is less because there is a greater degree of uncertainty.

The greatness is the carrot for both Fantilli and whoever we get at 5. That's what keeps the value high and keeps us all hanging on for hope. Much like your reasons for not wanting to trade Fantilli, I would not want to trade 5th overall at this point. Sure...could be the next turcotte or could be the next.....Caufield.

Caufield by many is considered top 5 for a 2019 redraft.

Fantilli could be the next Toews, or he could be the next Byfield.

I’d say top 10

Hughes zegras boldy cozens byram and Seider are clearly ahead of him.

Few others that would be debatable.

 

[Sean Garrity]

Fantilli is less hyped than say a Byfield or Laf because there's some dude named Connor who happens to be in his draft.

 

[waitin425]

It does matter, there is a BIG difference between scoring 40 goals in a season and on 2 season. What is tough in scoring 40 goals in 1 season is to have the constancy to do it and battle through injuries, tough schedule, fatigue, mental breakdown. That's the tough part of doing it and that's why it's really not the same thing

Fantilli would have been the #1 pick in 2020. He's just the total package you want in a player: Center, Size, Great skater, great shoot, great 2 way game, physical, high compete level. Type of player you build your franchise around. Lafreniere was great, but he wasn't the skater Fantilli is and he doesn't play a premium position. Laffy was maybe more hype in QC but not in the hockey world. For Byfield, they were a lot of question about him in his draft year and many had Stuzle before him

When Fantilli dosen't score, he can contribute in many other ways. When Caufield doesn't score what he brings ? Would't say Caufield floor is higher

Chances are way higher we end-up with Will Smith and Hugo dosen't seem to want to the Michkov risk from my understanding

Memories are short around here. Laf was hyped to no end and there is no way Fantilli would have been picked ahead of him. Look at their World Ju unio performances! Laf was MVP in his D year and clearly the man at that time. Fantilli was an afterthought this year and not just because Bedard was so exceptional.

God HF boards loves its prospects.

Fantilli is less hyped than say a Byfield or Laf because there's some dude named Connor who happens to be in his draft.

How did he do in the Juniors compared to Laf?

 

[Vachon23]

Memories are short around here. Laf was hyped to no end and there is no way Fantilli would have been picked ahead of him. Look at their World Ju unio performances! Laf was MVP in his D year and clearly the man at that time. Fantilli was an afterthought this year and not just because Bedard was so exceptional.

God HF boards loves its prospects.

Memories is not short term.. Lafreniere was great but Fantilli had more tools and plays a premium position. World JR is a 2 week tournament without structure and where half of the teams are not even caliber. It's a really fun tournament to watch but don't base to much of your opinion on a player in that tournament.

How did he do in the Juniors compared to Laf?

He only was a 2 PPG player in the NCAA and become the 3rd draft eligible player to win the Hobey Baker after Paul Kariya and Jack Eichel...

 

[Hoglander]

A 1-dimensional midget doesn't sniff the 2ndOV, especially in a draft like this. 10 assists in 46 games, for an offense-only player that sees a lot of PP1 time, is brutal. Cope with it.