Value of: Caufield vs 2OA

[ole ole]

This.

OP wanted to know if a combination of Caufield and Florida's 1st or Montreal's future 1sts would be enough for Anaheim to trade Fantilli. That's an outlandish, hilarious valuation of Caufield - who, I need to be clear, I like a lot, but it's still insane valuation.

I agree that the OPs combination was bad but not near as bad as the Likes of
Suzuki,5th OA and Lane. IMAGINE.
Everyone keeps mentioning, degrading Caufield but are also forgetting what that 5th OA pick is. I think most are not mentioning the pick because they rather just try to discredit Caufield.

That's *everyone's* prerogative. I like Caufield a lot but until he puts it together over an entire season, he's not a 40 goal scorer, he's a 26 goal scorer that got his season cut short due to trying to play through an injury and making it worse.

Both teams should just draft where they are and be happy. Caufield doesn't have enough value on his to pull top 2 pick without major adds, and the Habs would be silly to make those adds.

Exactly. You nailed it.

 

[ole ole]

I think it's worthwhile to remember that this thread started with a lowball. Caufield + Florida 1st or 2024 first is a very poor offer.

While 5th+Suzuki+Hutson is a crazy valuation, I don't think you'll find a Ducks fan that would do it for anything less than 5th and Caufield.

And i don't believe you would find a Hab fan that would entertain that offer.
Many are saying it's not near enough. That's where i disagree.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

And i don't believe you would find a Hab fan that would entertain that offer.
Many are saying it's not near enough. That's where i disagree.

Caufield + Florida 1st is laughable

Would i trade the 2nd OA for the 5th and Terry? If we were somehow getting Dubois ya i would highly consider it. and if it's Michkov sitting at 5 Done.

No Dubois just the value

And you have no clue if sharks or columbus go michkov

Anaheim has no clue who is there at 5…. And we’re not getting Dubois

 

[ole ole]

I personally have him somewhere in the top 10

Hughes
Seider
Cozens
Zegras
Boldy

After that Caufield is probably next or the next after so #6-7

6 or 7 eh. Wow such a long way from 5. Now i know why you tried to make a mockery out of it.

 

[Vachon23]

6 or 7 eh. Wow such a long way from 5. Now i know why you tried to make a mockery out of it.

There where no mockery, I’m a Habs fans and I love Caufield…

 

[ole ole]

Caufield + Florida 1st is laughable


No Dubois just the value

And you have no clue if sharks or columbus go michkov

Anaheim has no clue who is there at 5…. And we’re not getting Dubois

Valve is more than fair. Ya i do that deal as long as your team guarantees not to pick Michkov.
Terry and one of Carlsson, Smith or Michkov vrs Fantilli. Give me Terry and the pick..

 

[DaPhazz]

Valve is more than fair. Ya i do that deal as long as your team guarantees not to pick Michkov.
Terry and one of Carlsson, Smith or Michkov vrs Fantilli. Give me Terry and the pick..

This, I'd take Michkov over Fantilli

 

[Xirik]

This, I'd take Michkov over Fantilli

that way the Habs can continue to get near the top of the draft because Michkov won't play on the team for probably four years. I don't know if Hughes and Habs fans are wanting that really. The last year all I've heard was that they expect and want the rebuild to be done as quick as possible. Michkov probably would be the right pick but there is a chance that would delay things.

 

[monkforasia]

Still think caufield, plus #5, plus hutson/another prospect would be a good deal in terms of value for both sides.

 

[Rec T]

Good lord, almost 12 pages (on pace for 27 over two threads...) of pretty much absolute nonsense. The original offer was insultingly bad even for HF. Later ones are somewhat better if you ignore the pretty much unanimous opinion by Ducks fans that Fantilli is almost exactly what they need at this point in time and moving forward and thus there's no way they're trading #2. In a vacuum, meh, some of them are roughly ok value wise ... but ... they still ignore all those Ducks fans jumping up and down saying they don't want what Montreal's fans are offering. And those Habs fans (a specific few in particular) are doing a very impressive job of moving the assorted goalposts around whenever a point/argument is made why the trade just wouldn't work.

This should be locked and everyone go have a few stuff drinks to try to ease the brain cramping that came from all these mental gymnastics.

 

[Mersss]

But that wouldn’t entice us at all…. Which is what Canadian fans seem to be ignoring me


Would you trade 2nd overall for 5th + terry?


In value vacuum sure…. But I imagine Anaheim still says no if this was on the table

Terry is 26, Caufield is 22.

If Terry was 22 with a pedigree like Caufield, I'd do it for sure. Terry isn't 22, wasn't even cloae to be as good as Caufield at 21, and doesn't have the pedigree Caufield has

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Many others also including insiders. Curious where you would rate him now in that draft?

I'm not saying he for sure isn't top 5 or anything, just that it probably isn't too popular of an opinion outside of Habs fans.

But more or less what the other two posters said. Somewhere in the mid/late top 10.

 

[Buffdog]

Who is the 40 goal scorer Habs fans keep referring to?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I'm not saying he for sure isn't top 5 or anything, just that it probably isn't too popular of an opinion outside of Habs fans.

But more or less what the other two posters said. Somewhere in the mid/late top 10.

I feel like calling him a top 5 player is like calling him a 40 goal scorer.


Everyone can name 5 better players from the draft pretty comfortably

 

[dracom]

Who is the 40 goal scorer Habs fans keep referring to?

don't you know, scoring 26 in a season is actually the same as 40. and scoring 40 goals between 2 seasons is the same as scoring 40 in one season.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Terry is 26, Caufield is 22.

If Terry was 22 with a pedigree like Caufield, I'd do it for sure. Terry isn't 22, wasn't even cloae to be as good as Caufield at 21, and doesn't have the pedigree Caufield has

Terry is 25... but ive come to realize #'s can be moved a bit to suit your arguemnet if you are a Montreal fan.

26 = 40
top 10 = top 5

And what is Caufields pedigree that Terry doesnt have? Only 1 of them is a 30+ goal scorer

 

[Mersss]

Terry is 25... but ive come to realize #'s can be moved a bit to suit your arguemnet if you are a Montreal fan.

26 = 40
top 10 = top 5

Where have I changed a number?

Since MSL took over. Caufield has 49goals in 86 games, that's a fact like it or not. Making him a very close to 45goal pace under good management.

Fact you can't see the math tells me you're probably just not able to do them yourself!

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Where have I changed a number?

Since MSL took over. Caufield has 49goals in 86 games, that's a fact like it or not. Making him a very close to 45goal pace under good management.

Fact you can't see the math tells me you're probably just not able to do them yourself!

Lol you literally just said Terry was 26.... and now your caling caufield a 40+ goal scorer... when i went to NHL game it shows, 26/23

 

[dracom]

Where have I changed a number?

Since MSL took over. Caufield has 49goals in 86 games, that's a fact like it or not. Making him a very close to 45goal pace under good management.

Fact you can't see the math tells me you're probably just not able to do them yourself!

damn, it's crazy a full 82 season has now become a full 86 game season. and that a full offseason with resting and training actually has no impact on a player's development. this same argument from MTL fans to pump up Caulfield's goal totals is so insane. if you're so confident in him being such a great goal scorer, maybe wait until he can actually do it for a full season.

 

[Colezuki]

caufield isn’t worth 2nd overall
2nd overall isn’t worth 5th overall + caufield

/thread

 

[LVCarson]

In my opinion Anaheim doesn’t even consider this. It is pretty clear Caulfield is looking to sign for way more than what the Habs gave Suzuki. Suzuki had a career high 15 goals and 26 assists when he signed his 8x8m contract, so I am sure a 22 year old who scored 40 goals is looking for way more than that. Taking a guess but likely something more around 10-10.5m x 8. No one in the league is going to trade for a player looking for that kind of cash. Maybe asking for 10m is just Caulfield way of getting out of Montreal, like KK. Either way I think Montreal fans will be disappointed with the return, if they are able to find someone that is willing to trade for someone that wants that kind of cash.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

That's fair. We can't call him a 40g scorer.
However, you'd be mistaken to think any less of him.
He's a lock to score 40+ goals.

I remember not long ago Canucks fans making the same statements about Brock Boeser. It was a given he was going to be one of the best goal scorers in the league. 40+ goals easily. Look at his pace, look at his shot. Then the games happened. Injuries derailed him. Seasons passed and he never hit 30. I’m not going to say Caufield won’t or can’t but he has to actually do it before anyone can say he’s a lock without potentially looking foolish.

 

[Heldig]

Breaking news: guy with 0 NHL games also has scored 0 goals. And in other news guy who scored 26 (which is technically 50) was at one point on pace with the top 10 goal scorers.

"Technically 50"

 

[TBF1972]

sometimes you simply have to embrace other opinions and creative ways to interpretate stats. as a devils fan i am more familiar with jack hughes than caufield and therefore i now apply the slice and dice the sample size method on jack hughes last season, in which he recorded 43 goals and 56 assists in 78 games.

using prorated stats we can easily call him 100+ point player. but this actually doesn't do justice to jack hughes, as he didn't look the same after coming back from injury. the next 17 games he only scored 2 goals and handed out 12 assists. the injury clearly impacted his shot and it's fair to treat the 4 games lost like a mini off-season and the 17 games sample size as a tune up like camp/pre-season.

in the other 61 games jack had 41 goals and 44 assists, which represent his current level of play much better. so he paced for 55+ goals and 59+ assists or like 115 points at the age of 21 (he turned 22 after recording those stats).

considering his age and trajectory he is IN FACT a future 60+ goal scorer, who can easily record 130+ points any season (if not attached to blackhaula). in other threads people suggested magic bean bedard with 0 nhl goals is a more valuable asset than jack.

crazy, crazy talk

 

[TBF1972]

Good lord, almost 12 pages (on pace for 27 over two threads...) of pretty much absolute nonsense. The original offer was insultingly bad even for HF. Later ones are somewhat better if you ignore the pretty much unanimous opinion by Ducks fans that Fantilli is almost exactly what they need at this point in time and moving forward and thus there's no way they're trading #2. In a vacuum, meh, some of them are roughly ok value wise ... but ... they still ignore all those Ducks fans jumping up and down saying they don't want what Montreal's fans are offering. And those Habs fans (a specific few in particular) are doing a very impressive job of moving the assorted goalposts around whenever a point/argument is made why the trade just wouldn't work.

This should be locked and everyone go have a few stuff drinks to try to ease the brain cramping that came from all these mental gymnastics.

i wonder if you used pace over two threads with intention. regardless i love it.