Panthaz89
Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Panthers fan
Dahlin was playing in the SHL as a defenseman at the same age and was viewed as the best D prospect since Potvin.
Value of: Caufield vs 2OA
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jgimp
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Just sign Fantilli for free when he’s UFA!
BlackFrancis
Athletic Supporter Patch Partner
- Dec 14, 2013
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That's silly. He wasn't even in the same universe as Hedman, Pronger, Niedermayer. He was playing in the second best league in Europe and was struggling to defend at that level.
Hoglander
I'm Höglander. I can do whatever I want.
Ducks would be the ones adding here, as Caufield was on pace for 65 points.
That's right, 65 POINTS!!!!
That's right, 65 POINTS!!!!
Panthaz89
Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Panthers fan
he was +4 in a Men's league at 17 is this some type of next level joke it's not like he put up big offensive numbers to make up for it either.
Fantalli is a potentially franchise C, just like Caufield is a potential 50 goal winger. The value difference between Fantalli and Caufield is at least the #5.
The most goals Caufield has scored in the NHL is 26 goals in 46 games. Yep on pace but he's never scored 40 or 50 and is 5'7" and a winger.
The value of Fantilli may be just as high if not higher because:
1. He's played against men in the NCAA and dominated at 18 years old
2. He's a center - higher value position
3. He's going to be on an ELC so cost controlled longer
4. He's 6'2" 200 lbs and still growing.
Again, you have to look at team "needs' as well. Fantilli has alot more value to Anaheim because if you move Zegras to the wing, where he's better suited the team on the whole gets Bigger and just as good if not better. Fantilli will be a 90-100 pt player in the NHL, no one doubts this. And he has size and is a center.
nhlfan9191
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- Aug 4, 2010
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That’s not what my point is. The difference between Fantilli and Smith/Michkov is not a 21 year old that has scored 46 goals in his last 82 games played. That’s absolutely hilarious. And to think people have Montreal adding on top of that. How are Montreal fans the delusional ones here? That trade offer should come with a bottle of lube.
This really is a silly thread
That dwarf + 5 OA + isn’t worth Fantili
That dwarf + 5 OA + isn’t worth Fantili
Crazy8oooo
Puck Off!
Pretty impressive that he only achieves 65 points yet he’s a 50 goal scorer. Screw assists!
if caufield is a 40-50 goal scorer, fantilli is a franchise center.
he showed elite play making. but his linemates, who are all stars, let him down.
watch the game, kid.
ItWasJustified
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- Jan 1, 2015
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Cole Caufield was on pace for 46 NHL goals last season. Fantilli was on pace for 0. I rather keep the known player than getting the unknown.
pace!!!
caufield lost 36 games to injury in a season he played 46 games. if we prorate that to a 82 games, we can expect him to sit out 64 games every season.
that's the way pace works. right?
ole ole
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ItWasJustified
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Nope. Goal pace exists. There's a correlation. There's no correlation between an actual injury and lost games and potential injuries.pace!!!
caufield lost 36 games to injury in a season he played 46 games. if we prorate that to a 82 games, we can expect him to sit out 64 games every season.
that's the way pace works. right?
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actually games lost to injury and games played are very strongly related. just not the way i did it.
82 regular season games - games played = games lost to injury (+ suspension + other reasons)
so pace can't be used here, as a player can impossible appear in 82 games and losing 64 to injury at the same time.
now read my joke again and try to laugh.
viceroy
Registered User
Sold!
Talk about damning with faint praise.
It's sad but I don't think MTL wants Michkov at all.
Intangir
Registered User
Like it or not, Caufield has shown considerable offensive talent at the young age of 21 (soon 22), has improved by leaps and bounds every year since being drafted which shows a very clear ongoing upwards trajectory as a player.
Then you look at how Caufield has produced at a very high level for the last 80 games or so on a rebuilding team, at his attributes and tools as a player, the many ways in which he can still improve his game in the coming seasons, and it quickly becomes apparent that Caufield is a VERY valuable player to have on your roster.
That said, given that Fantilli will be available this year with the 2nd-overall pick, and how special he is as a prospect, even as a Habs fan I have to admit that Caufield straight-up holds less value in that scenario than the pick that would be used to take Fantilli.
Now, to better substantiate my point, I'd have to add that while Caufield is plain less valuable than the 2nd overall pick this year would be, the value discrepancy between those two Hockey assets is NOT in my mind worth the 2023 5th overall pick (+) like some have said in this thread.
People will surely argue that quality very often beats quantity when it comes to prospects given limited roster space, and likely cite examples reflecting that reality. But to me that only holds true up to a certain extent before reaching a threshold of diminishing returns on players whose upside is not that far from each other.
And no, I don't think that Fantilli has a significantly higher upside than any of Michkov, Carlsson, or Smith.
In fact, to me (and surely many others) Michkov has obviously higher upside than Fantilli. Also, Smith and Carlsson would have similar-ish ceilings to Fantilli, but lesser chances of reaching theirs as opposed to Fantilli (and Smith would be the least likely among those to hit his own sky-high potential).
Then you look at how Caufield has produced at a very high level for the last 80 games or so on a rebuilding team, at his attributes and tools as a player, the many ways in which he can still improve his game in the coming seasons, and it quickly becomes apparent that Caufield is a VERY valuable player to have on your roster.
That said, given that Fantilli will be available this year with the 2nd-overall pick, and how special he is as a prospect, even as a Habs fan I have to admit that Caufield straight-up holds less value in that scenario than the pick that would be used to take Fantilli.
Now, to better substantiate my point, I'd have to add that while Caufield is plain less valuable than the 2nd overall pick this year would be, the value discrepancy between those two Hockey assets is NOT in my mind worth the 2023 5th overall pick (+) like some have said in this thread.
People will surely argue that quality very often beats quantity when it comes to prospects given limited roster space, and likely cite examples reflecting that reality. But to me that only holds true up to a certain extent before reaching a threshold of diminishing returns on players whose upside is not that far from each other.
And no, I don't think that Fantilli has a significantly higher upside than any of Michkov, Carlsson, or Smith.
In fact, to me (and surely many others) Michkov has obviously higher upside than Fantilli. Also, Smith and Carlsson would have similar-ish ceilings to Fantilli, but lesser chances of reaching theirs as opposed to Fantilli (and Smith would be the least likely among those to hit his own sky-high potential).
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there's nothing like starting your post with some undisputable facts. it gives your further arguments a lot more credbility
COLE CAUFIELD #22
BORN: Jan. 2, 2001
AGE: 22
Nico Cauzuki
Registered User
he has 48 goals in 81 games under MSL if that helps lolpace!!!
caufield lost 36 games to injury in a season he played 46 games. if we prorate that to a 82 games, we can expect him to sit out 64 games every season.
that's the way pace works. right?
Ne ways love Caufield but hes not worth #2 and we're not adding #5 we can close this thread
i am not a fan of slice and dice a sample size. from a statistical point of view you end up with less reliable and replicable data.
playing a full 82 games schedule includes playing through some minor injuries and fatigue. those can limit the players performances or his confidence, which often than leads to lower production level aka cold streaks.
i think it's a fair point to ask at least close to 40 goals within one season to call someone a 40-50 goal scorer. 26 goals in 46 games doesn't do it for me and from reading other opinions this sentiment is shared by a lot of people here.
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