Value of: Carter Hart to Habs

[FlyguyOX]

It's unfortunate the Habs prospect pool is throughly underwhelming.

Probably something like Hutson, Farrell, 2024 1st unprotected.

I'm not here to debate how good Hart is or isn't. It's clear and obvious to anyone that has non-smooth brain. If the offer you give doesn't pain you to lose then we're keeping him. That simple.

 

[26Mats]

It's unfortunate the Habs prospect pool is throughly underwhelming.

Probably something like Hutson, Farrell, 2024 1st unprotected.

I'm not here to debate how good Hart is or isn't. It's clear and obvious to anyone that has non-smooth brain. If the offer you give doesn't pain you to lose then we're keeping him. That simple.

Habs prospect pool is thoroughly underwhelming?

Actually it's extremely deep.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

If you've watched the Habs this year, and not just looked at the stat box and draft rankings, you'd understand.

What’s been so great ?

 

[FlyguyOX]

Habs prospect pool is thoroughly underwhelming?

Actually it's extremely deep.

Yeah, so was the flyers. Deep with bottom 6/bottom pair guys.

 

[pth2]

I'd think the best comparable for a Hart deal would be Schneider for 9th overall in 2013, and that was generally seen as an overpay by NJ, but they just had to plug that gap in net.

The Habs giving up the Florida pick in a highly-regarded draft would be a similar overpayment, IMO. Though, since the Schneider deal took place, not an unreasonable overpayment.

I'm not sure I'd pull the trigger on that deal, myself.

 

[26Mats]

What’s been so great ?

Good question.

I'll start with the top 8:
- Guhle looks like a number 1, in the mold of McDonagh in his prime, but bigger and meaner.

- Matheson looks like a late blooming Petry in his prime.

- Savard is a defensive Rock and good mentor for the youth.

- Xhekaj is one of the tougher players in the league, and he can play. He has really good hands, though he does need more seasoning.

- Barron - elite skaters who we hope will be good at both ends, but for sure is still learning at this point. But the flashes of his upside have been there.

- Kovacevic is what you want in a low salary bottom pair dman.

-Harris is slick, smart, and composed. But it remains to be seen how he handles bigger forwards. He is a rookie out of the NCAA, so I need more time to see what he'll be.

-Edmundson hasn't been a shadow of his former self. So he's also a question mark. Can he get back to his old self?

Then there's the youth
- Hutson - could be a star
- Mailloux - could also be a star
- Engstrom
- Struble
- Trudeau

All have a shot at being NHLers

Plus longshot s that each have their positive attributes:
- Nurmi, Fairbrother, Norlinder, Shueneman, and Beaudin.

It's our deepest position.

 

[Canadienna]

I think my best offer this summer would be FLA 2023 1st + Jordan Harris

I know a lot of Habs fans wouldn't do it, but it's kind of the absolute max I would go. And I've always liked Hart.

If he's happy then I'm sure the Flyers just resign him, but if this summer there's any indication he doesn't want to be around long term, I think PHI would be smart to look at that offer.

 

[26Mats]

Yeah, so was the flyers. Deep with bottom 6/bottom pair guys.

Before this year many were skeptical that even half our young d prospects would be NHLers.

Guhle, Barron, Xhekaj, Harris, and Kovacevic all have shown they're NHLers as rookies. Only Kovacevic is a sure bottom pair. Harris and Xhekaj may be. But they have real top 4 upside. Then Hutson and Mailloux could be stars. Engstrom also has high upside. No one knows what he'll be.

At forward, will all of Slafkovsky, Farrell, Roy, RHP, Beck, Mesar, Heineman, and Kidney be bottom six? That's 9 prospects with top 6 potential. I doubt all of them fail.

 

[pth2]

I think my best offer this summer would be FLA 2023 1st + Jordan Harris

I know a lot of Habs fans wouldn't do it, but it's kind of the absolute max I would go. And I've always liked Hart.

If he's happy then I'm sure the Flyers just resign him, but if this summer there's any indication he doesn't want to be around long term, I think PHI would be smart to look at that offer.

My highest would probably be something like Florida 1st and Allen for Hart and a 4th.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I think my best offer this summer would be FLA 2023 1st + Jordan Harris

I know a lot of Habs fans wouldn't do it, but it's kind of the absolute max I would go. And I've always liked Hart.

If he's happy then I'm sure the Flyers just resign him, but if this summer there's any indication he doesn't want to be around long term, I think PHI would be smart to look at that offer.

I'm not taking that if I'm the flyers. Hronek, a 2nd pair D-man, just went for practically the same value pick, and a young #6/7 D-man isn't valuable. We have plenty of those.

Habs fans must forget when 21 year old Hart outdueled Price in the playoffs. He's a solidly positive GSAx goalie in his prime that has accomplished things at an age only guys like Luongo and Price have done.

But sure he's equal to what a 2nd pair D-man returned. Makes sense.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Good question.

I'll start with the top 8:
- Guhle looks like a number 1, in the mold of McDonagh in his prime, but bigger and meaner.

- Matheson looks like a late blooming Petry in his prime.

- Savard is a defensive Rock and good mentor for the youth.

- Xhekaj is one of the tougher players in the league, and he can play. He has really good hands, though he does need more seasoning.

- Barron - elite skaters who we hope will be good at both ends, but for sure is still learning at this point. But the flashes of his upside have been there.

- Kovacevic is what you want in a low salary bottom pair dman.

-Harris is slick, smart, and composed. But it remains to be seen how he handles bigger forwards. He is a rookie out of the NCAA, so I need more time to see what he'll be.

-Edmundson hasn't been a shadow of his former self. So he's also a question mark. Can he get back to his old self?

Then there's the youth
- Hutson - could be a star
- Mailloux - could also be a star
- Engstrom
- Struble
- Trudeau

All have a shot at being NHLers

Plus longshot s that each have their positive attributes:
- Nurmi, Fairbrother, Norlinder, Shueneman, and Beaudin.

It's our deepest position.

Looks like a whole lot of hoping /maybes …..

 

[Canadienna]

I'm not taking that if I'm the flyers. Hronek, a 2nd pair D-man, just went for practically the same value pick, and a young #6/7 D-man isn't valuable. We have plenty of those.

Habs fans must forget when 21 year old Hart outdueled Price in the playoffs. He's a solidly positive GSAx goalie in his prime that has accomplished things at an age only guys like Luongo and Price have done.

But sure he's equal to what a 2nd pair D-man returned. Makes sense.

I can respect not wanting the trade, but I think the FLA unprotected pick is more valuable than the NYI pick. I also think (trying not to sound like a homer) Harris has potential to be a genuine top4 guy. Habs glut on LD is the only reason to move him. If he's not the right fit maybe we look at another young player or prospect.

I've said a bunch of times I like Hart so I don't know why you're acting like I'm insulting him with that offer.

We discussed the Schneider trade as a comparable, and I think this is a comparable package.

Maybe a lot of the value depends on where the FLA pick lands, which would have been determined by the time this hypothetical trade took place.

 

[26Mats]

Looks like a whole lot of hoping /maybes …..

Guhle, Savard, and Matheson are sure things.

That's 3 quarters of the top 4.

Then you have a ton of excellent prospects for 1 more top 4 spot and really 1 more bottom pair spot, since Kovacevic, Harris, and Xhekaj are at least good bottom pair D. The odds of them all failing for that 1 remaining top 4 spot and for one to take over for Savard, are extremely low, when you see what the young rookies are already doing in the NHL and what the others, particularly, Hutson, Mailloux, Barron, and Engstrom did at lower levels this year.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I'm not taking that if I'm the flyers. Hronek, a 2nd pair D-man, just went for practically the same value pick, and a young #6/7 D-man isn't valuable. We have plenty of those.

Habs fans must forget when 21 year old Hart outdueled Price in the playoffs. He's a solidly positive GSAx goalie in his prime that has accomplished things at an age only guys like Luongo and Price have done.

But sure he's equal to what a 2nd pair D-man returned. Makes sense.

And now Hart gets outdueled by everyone.

I guess you'll take a 4th for him ? Obviously not, but that doesn't mean much.

At the price that flyers fans are looking for Hart, the Habs should just look away. Flyers aren't going to give him away for free, but the price being asked is absurd.

Colorado - Kuemper - not a 1st and acquired for a late 1st and a low end prospect, older but put up better numbers.
Tampa - Vasy draft 1st round
Tampa - vasy
Blues - Binnington - drafted later rounds, not very good since.
Holtby - late round pick was mostly good before, faltered and stepped it up in the playoffs.
Penguins - 3rd round pick - split the duties in the 2nd cup, but drafted and developed.
Chicago - Crawford late 2nd round pick did well enough on a good team.
LA- quick, 3rd rounder
Chicago - Crawford
LA- Quick
Boston - Thomas, journeyman goalie
Chicago - Khabibulin acquired, good goalie throughout his career.
Pittsburgh - MAF 1st overall pick
Detroit - Osgoode - questionable goalie, but played well enough to let his team be successful.
Ducks - Giguere played a few seasons there, solid goalie but nothing overall special.
Hurricanes - Ward, caught fire at the right time was pretty much an average, or worse goalie the rest of his career.
Lightning - Khabibulin
Devils - Broduer, enough said
Red Wings - hasek, same as above
Avs - Roy - same as above
Devils - Brodeur same

So, for the past 22 years goalies on cup winning teams are mostly drafted by the team and a later round pick. 1 was traded for a high price and that was a later 1st and not in a rumored draft as such.

Habs are better off to take a goalie with a 3rd, or later than they are to trade the asked price for Hart.

That's my take on this.

 

[CTHabsfan]

It's unfortunate the Habs prospect pool is throughly underwhelming.

Probably something like Hutson, Farrell, 2024 1st unprotected.

I'm not here to debate how good Hart is or isn't. It's clear and obvious to anyone that has non-smooth brain. If the offer you give doesn't pain you to lose then we're keeping him. That simple.

If the Habs prospect pool is throughly underwhelming, why would they trade their two best prospects and an unprotected 1st-round pick in 2024 for Carter Hart? The Canadiens are a rebuilding team, not a team that's a goaltender away from winning the Stanley Cup.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

That's not how it works lmao, goaltender stats are already averaged out. They don't just get "twice as worse" because he plays twice as many games.

This is Montembeault were talking about, he a backup goalie that won’t ever amount to much.

If he started consistently we all know he’d get caved.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Guhle, Savard, and Matheson are sure things.

That's 3 quarters of the top 4.

Then you have a ton of excellent prospects for 1 more top 4 spot and really 1 more bottom pair spot, since Kovacevic, Harris, and Xhekaj are at least good bottom pair D. The odds of them all failing for that 1 remaining top 4 spot and for one to take over for Savard, are extremely low, when you see what the young rookies are already doing in the NHL and what the others, particularly, Hutson, Mailloux, Barron, and Engstrom did at lower levels this year.

Savard has been cooked for several years . Also find it curious that he and Matheson are being lumped in with the kids/prospects when they are 32 and 29 respectively…..these are key future pieces ? And supposedly impressive ?

 

[26Mats]

Savard has been cooked for several years . Also find it curious that he and Matheson are being lumped in with the kids/prospects when they are 32 and 29 respectively…..these are key future pieces ? And supposedly impressive ?

Savard is a stop gap. Bu my just like Edmundson isn't the player he was last year, so is Savard - except in the opposite direction.

Matheson is 29 and could play at s high level until he's 35, 36, 37 because of his skating. He's an elite skater, and another player that has vastly been improving th ear to year over the last few years. Hence the Petry comparison. Petry was a much better player in his early 30's than he was in his late 20's when we got him from Edmonton. He's the quintessential late bloomer.


Savard improved by slimming down in the offseason.
Unless you watched the games you wouldn't know how Matheson, Savard, and Edmundson have been doing. Matheson and Savard have been phenomenal, Edmundson not good. Hope Eddy get stay healthy and get his groove back as the absolute reliable rock he was next to Petry when we went to the finals and the year after that.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Matheson and Savard have been phenomenal

Sir I think you may want to review what phenomenal means in a dictionary.

 

[26Mats]

Sir I think you may want to review what phenomenal means in a dictionary.

In their roles

 

[GUY 10]

I think my best offer this summer would be FLA 2023 1st + Jordan Harris

I know a lot of Habs fans wouldn't do it, but it's kind of the absolute max I would go. And I've always liked Hart.

If he's happy then I'm sure the Flyers just resign him, but if this summer there's any indication he doesn't want to be around long term, I think PHI would be smart to look at that offer.

that package will get you Dubois. Which would you rather have, Hart or Dubois?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I think Montreal is way ahead. Especially if we get Dubois. Our Dcore is beyond set for the next 15 years. Our forward corps is pretty good now when healthy. Then we should add Dubois and a good pick this year. Only a matter of time before we're good. We just need a 3c if Monahan can't come back and a goalie.

Caufield Suzuki Slakovsky
Farell Dach Gurianov/Heineman/Dvorak
RHP Monahan Anderson
Belzile Evans Ylonen
Roy, Beck, Mesar on the way

Guhle Savard (stop gap for Mailloux)
Matheson Barron
Xhekaj Edmundson (stop gap for Hutson)
Harris, Kovacevic
Engstrom, Struble, Trudeau, Fairbrother on the way

Montembault
Allen

Wow insane....

That's a dynasty if ive ever seen one

 

[Canadienna]

that package will get you Dubois. Which would you rather have, Hart or Dubois?

I really like Hart...

Maybe you put both offers out there and see who wants it.

I think for Habs it wouldn't be a big deal if we didn't make any big moves this summer, so I'm still unsure about how smart it is to move that package for either guy.

It's a fair point though, we can't do both.

 

[pth2]

I really like Hart...

Maybe you put both offers out there and see who wants it.

I think for Habs it wouldn't be a big deal if we didn't make any big moves this summer, so I'm still unsure about how smart it is to move that package for either guy.

It's a fair point though, we can't do both.

This reminds me of re-drafts from 2005.... we could've taken Draisatl and gone with Halak.

In a few years, it could end up being Dubois and Montembeault (or whoever else we can get) or Evans and Hart.
Frankly, I'd rather go for the forward who's trending well than the goalie trending badly and with an asking price that appears to be higher than any goalie, ever.

 

[ottawa]

This is Montembeault were talking about, he a backup goalie that won’t ever amount to much.

If he started consistently we all know he’d get caved.

It doesn't matter who we're talking about, it doesn't work like that for any player.

I'm sure you're smart enough to figure out why.