Value of: Carter Hart to Habs

[Tripledeke333]

This offer is not good and would be a conversation ender.

The Habs suck and are in a stacked division. Their unprotected first is very valuable. Allen is a solid goalie on a great contract so he also has value.

It is fair to ask for more as Provov is also being asked for. However, this should be a great conversation starter. If the pick was protected I would agree the offer would suck.

 

[26Mats]

Then Carter Hart is not the right target. He could be a very good goalie but has been developed very poorly by the Flyers. He has never been the same after AV publicly called him out a few years ago. He may never be the same again.

If Hart won't be great, he's not the right target.

It's all about Highes and Gorton's read. But they have inbthe past looked for young players that were struggling in an organization, that they think can do better with a change if scenery and "runway." Dach, Matheson, and Monteambault are successes so far. We'll see about Gurianov.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

Well you had 7 teams within like three to five points of each other for the last 2 wild card spots this year.

You have 7 teams within 9 points, 2 of them sold at the deadline and 1 passed on doing anything. Montreal needs to move up 20 points just to be in that mess. Montreal needs to improve by over 30 points to have a shot at the Wildcard. Do the Habs look like a team that is making a 30 point move? With limited cap space.

 

[JRichard]

Dude just pay the price for him. You guys need a goalie.

Agree.
Playing Allen is nonsense on this type of team.
Especially when you expect to dress same six dmen again next season.
Montambeault fine backup.
I’d try to get Hart and Farabee who is young and perfect buy low candidate and maybe not a Tortorella type as he is more of a « cerebral » player.
I’d offer only futures since Philly is behind in rebuilding. One prospect per position: Dobes, Mailloux, Roy. Add Florida’s pick (around 15 today).
Roster is intact and immediate improvement.

then Philly does same type of deal with other team for Provorov for 2 prospects.
Philly not sniffing playoffs anytime soon even more so than Mtl.

 

[pooch]

The Habs suck and are in a stacked division. Their unprotected first is very valuable. Allen is a solid goalie on a great contract so he also has value.

It is fair to ask for more as Provov is also being asked for. However, this should be a great conversation starter. If the pick was protected I would agree the offer would suck.

But it’s not a conversation starter. No need for the mediocre goalie or Hoffman and you want Hart AND Provorov.

 

[Michoulicious]

You. Don't. Trade. Unprotected first round picks. Years in advance. Ever.

I think something around top 10 protected 2025 1st (worst of CGY vs MTL pick) could be a decent offer.

Not sure Philly gets more than that.

As a comparable, Ducks received a late 1st (#30 OA) + a 2nd for Andersen back in the days, and Andersen was coming off 2 solid years with Anaheim at 26 y old. Hart is 24, but he had 2 tough years.

Maybe wait for Hart to bounce back to get more value.

 

[26Mats]

You have 7 teams within 9 points, 2 of them sold at the deadline and 1 passed on doing anything. Montreal needs to move up 20 points just to be in that mess. Montreal needs to improve by over 30 points to have a shot at the Wildcard. Do the Habs look like a team that is making a 30 point move? With limited cap space.

We'll have the cap space. If we get Dubois AND stay healthy, we could definitely be one of those 9 teams next year - I was talking about the TDL before teams sold.

Remember, no team in the history of the NHL has lost as many man games as the Habs have the last 2 years. We have so many players out now every oppositio team's media that comes onnthe radio can't believe how long our injury list is.

 

[Tripledeke333]

But it’s not a conversation starter. No need for the mediocre goalie or Hoffman and you want Hart AND Provorov.

Yeah, but the Habs 2024 unprotected 1st has tremendous value. Allen has positive value and Hoffman should at least not have negative value.

I get you understand you may not wanna do the trade. But it is absurd hang up immediately when the Habs call and offer an unprotected 2024 1st.

Unlike me, Hughes is probably way too smart to offer even offer the 2024 unprotected pick.

 

[ponder719]

Yeah, but the Habs 2024 unprotected 1st has tremendous value. Allen has positive value and Hoffman should at least not have negative value.

I get you understand you may not wanna do the trade. But it is absurd hang up immediately when the Habs call and offer an unprotected 2024 1st.

Unlike me, Hughes is probably way too smart to offer even offer the 2024 unprotected pick.

That pick, without cap ballast, and with another legitimate asset, starts the conversation on Provorov alone. Not Provorov and Hart, and we take back multiple useless players, and we don’t get any other assets of value to us.

 

[Canadienna]

That pick, without cap ballast, and with another legitimate asset, starts the conversation on Provorov alone. Not Provorov and Hart, and we take back multiple useless players, and we don’t get any other assets of value to us.

I think that's a massive overvaluation of Provorov. I'll be shocked if the the Flyers get a better pick/player than the Habs 2024 unprotected 1st, let alone adding even more assets.

But to get back to Hart, what would have to be the price?

 

[ponder719]

I think that's a massive overvaluation of Provorov. I'll be shocked if the the Flyers get a better pick/player than the Habs 2024 unprotected 1st, let alone adding even more assets.

But to get back to Hart, what would have to be the price?

Again, the issue here isn't the individual value of one of the Flyer assets. Montreal, with Hart and Provorov added, is probably trading the 10-15 pick in next year's draft in that proposed trade. With no other assets. And two cap dumps. Can you find the last time a team offered a 1st pair defenseman and 25-yo #1 goalie for 2 cap dumps and a mid-1st a year away?

The comparable for Hart on the high end is the Cory Schneider trade. Schneider had less of a track record than Hart, but Hart's numbers have been lesser than Schneider's (granted that Schneider had a much, much better team in front of him), so we're looking at lesser value than the 9th pick in the draft. I'd say Hart should return something between the 12-18th pick. Montreal isn't likely to be drafting exactly in that range for the next little while without some significant improvements to their roster (frankly, neither will the Flyers) so we'd be looking at Hart + assets for Montreal's pick, or prospects the Flyers value at about that same level. I don't know Montreal's prospect pool all that well, so I won't start throwing names around, but that's about where I see Hart's value, and why.

 

[Canadienna]

I'd say Hart should return something between the 12-18th pick. Montreal isn't likely to be drafting exactly in that range for the next little while without some significant improvements to their roster

Well the Habs actually have a pick in this draft that's likely to fall right within that range (FLA).

Maybe that's the starting point. Thanks for the write-up.

 

[abo9]

Carter Hart is one of those players who has not lived up to the potential and hype but will still have the asking price based in said potential and hype.

Hart has been very underwhelming in his NHL career and is not a top NHL goalie.

He's no Hellebuyck or Carey Price but he's good.

Still only 24, if he was traded to a playoff team I'm sure he could take them up a notch

 

[Frank Drebin]

Again, the issue here isn't the individual value of one of the Flyer assets. Montreal, with Hart and Provorov added, is probably trading the 10-15 pick in next year's draft in that proposed trade. With no other assets. And two cap dumps. Can you find the last time a team offered a 1st pair defenseman and 25-yo #1 goalie for 2 cap dumps and a mid-1st a year away?

The comparable for Hart on the high end is the Cory Schneider trade. Schneider had less of a track record than Hart, but Hart's numbers have been lesser than Schneider's (granted that Schneider had a much, much better team in front of him), so we're looking at lesser value than the 9th pick in the draft. I'd say Hart should return something between the 12-18th pick. Montreal isn't likely to be drafting exactly in that range for the next little while without some significant improvements to their roster (frankly, neither will the Flyers) so we'd be looking at Hart + assets for Montreal's pick, or prospects the Flyers value at about that same level. I don't know Montreal's prospect pool all that well, so I won't start throwing names around, but that's about where I see Hart's value, and why.

We'll offer you whatever the mess is of the conditional pick is that we acquired with Monahan. Probably 12-20 but I have no idea on what year or who from. Could be as late as 2026 iirc

 

[abo9]

This offer is not good and would be a conversation ender.

On the Habs end yeah. Unprotected first on a non playoff team for a goaltender?

As much as I think Hart is good, you can find decent goalies for cheap all around the league

 

[BrindamoursNose]

But but I thought that this guy was Carey Price 2.0?

I think you're missing the point of why he'd be traded...and it's not because he isn't very good.

 

[HuGort]

What the Flyers fans want for him?

If we can sign Struble? How about Xhekaj for Hart? Xhekaj is a typical Flyer. Habs need young goalie to build around their defense.

 

[ole ole]

An unprotected 2024 1st from a team like the Habs is worth multiple late 1sts imo.

Hard to imagine getting a better pick anywhere else. I doubt the Habs would even do that tbh.

God i hope not. We should get a decent pick again next draft and then we should start climbing in the standings.

 

[Benstheman]

Provorov is not needed.

 

[Rich Nixon]

You. Don't. Trade. Unprotected first round picks. Years in advance. Ever.

I think something around top 10 protected 2025 1st (worst of CGY vs MTL pick) could be a decent offer.

Not sure Philly gets more than that.

As a comparable, Ducks received a late 1st (#30 OA) + a 2nd for Andersen back in the days, and Andersen was coming off 2 solid years with Anaheim at 26 y old. Hart is 24, but he had 2 tough years.

Maybe wait for Hart to bounce back to get more value.

The point of trading him now is that it's the best option they have if they were to trade him. The main reason his value is depressed—if it actually is—is that he plays behind a shitty team. The Flyers are rebuilding, they'll likely be an even shittier team next year, and Hart will need a new contract (last year of RFA eligibility) next summer. If they're trading Hart, they're trading him sometime between this draft and next year's deadline.

There is no "wait for a bounceback" because one, there's no real time to wait, and two, there's not really much to bounce back from.

I say "if his value is actually depressed" because I'm very curious about what his perception is among scouts rather than fans. As you'll see at any mention of him on a main board, people will instantly rush in and go "he's having a rough year" or "he's failed to live up to expectations" when that's...not at all true. He's a very good goalie. He plays on an absolutely awful hockey team. It's hard to post good goalie stats on an awful team.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Don’t think the habs would like the price
So it’s a no deal

Name the price

 

[Mrfenn92]

Name the price

A first with some adds is my guess

 

[Pelle31]

As a Habs fan, I’d love to get Hart. I believe he will be a legit#1 Star Goalie. Here is what I would offer.

Habs 2024 1st Unprotected+ Hoffman (cap dump)+Allen for Hart and Provov.

Hart could be Price’s replacement and our goalie for the next decade.

As a long time Flyers fan, Carter Hart would be the only untouchable on the Flyers team. We haven't had a real goalie since Pelle Lindbergh so I wouldn't trade Hart. If you're rebuilding a team, you start from the goalie out and Hart would be a good starting point.

 

[ponder719]

As a long time Flyers fan, Carter Hart would be the only untouchable on the Flyers team. We haven't had a real goalie since Pelle Lindbergh so I wouldn't trade Hart. If you're rebuilding a team, you start from the goalie out and Hart would be a good starting point.

The question, of course, becomes "how long will it take to rebuild"? If you have reason to believe the rebuild times out with Hart still being that #1 guy, then yeah, you keep him. If it's going to take longer than that (it shouldn't, at his age), or if he signals clearly enough that he's not willing to stick with the team past his RFA years (this is the one to worry about), then you have to consider other options, bearing in mind that we can at least have some hope in Ersson, who is a touch younger than Hart and under team control for substantially longer.

 

[Tanknation]

If you actually watch any of the Flyers games, he's quite a good goaltender. The Flyers are just horrible - he gets zero support.

Welcome to what Price had to deal with every single year.