Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[CapitalsCupReality]

Then the problem is in your expectations and you need to re-evaluate those because I'd bet you'd find most of the people who'd fit that criteria are getting ample PP time and would line right up with Mantha as a even strength contributor.

He’s been on two teams, and both appear(ed)to find him lacking, as well as the fans of both teams…..so maybe your view is the issue. You seem to be the only one suggesting Mantha is fine and everyone else is wrong in expecting him to play a bit better.

 

[Hivemind]

I thought last year was Nic Dowd's career year. Turns out that he had at least one more, even better career year (or half a year at least) left in him.

Safe to say that he's the best NHL ever from Alabama, right?

 

[Drakon]

But what about his last 10 games or so. I don’t know and not going to look it up. But Mantha has been trending down on the eye test.

Effort is the one thing that generally leads to production. If you aren’t giving the effort, and you’re not contributing, then you gonna sit in favor of those who are.

He had points in three straight (MTL,BUF,CBJ) and four of the last five (NYR) before the Nashville game. It's not like he was in a major slump productionwise.

 

[turkleton85]

He had points in three straight (MTL,BUF,CBJ) and four of the last five (NYR) before the Nashville game. It's not like he was in a major slump productionwise.

Wings fan here, and i've been a big fan of anthony mantha all those years. He showed so much potential to be a dominant, giant winger. I always hought the wings missused him, but after a few years i realized that the guy just has no drive. He might produce a few lucky points for a few games when he is off, but that doesn't hide the fact that there is just no desire or drive. Its a shame and very frustrating as a fan. When he is on (rarely more than three or four games in a row), he can take over games. But then, out of nowhere, its like his engine runs out of gas in the middle of the desert and the driver has to push his muscle car a few hundred miles to the next gas station

 

[Langway]

Dowd is why I find Eller's usage now that Backstrom is healthy as somewhat redundant 5v5. I don't mind Eller at 4LW with perhaps late game C usage/FO duties and his usual PK role but they need to better max their ability to run three scoring lines. They already have a pretty elite checking center in Dowd. Do they need a lesser second version at the expense of more formidable scoring lines?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Wings fan here, and i've been a big fan of anthony mantha all those years. He showed so much potential to be a dominant, giant winger. I always hought the wings missused him, but after a few years i realized that the guy just has no drive. He might produce a few lucky points for a few games when he is off, but that doesn't hide the fact that there is just no desire or drive. Its a shame and very frustrating as a fan. When he is on (rarely more than three or four games in a row), he can take over games. But then, out of nowhere, its like his engine runs out of gas in the middle of the desert and the driver has to push his muscle car a few hundred miles to the next gas station

Starting to think he’s an odd bird. Can anyone figure out what buttons to push Is the question…

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Dowd is why I find Eller's usage now that Backstrom is healthy as somewhat redundant 5v5. I don't mind Eller at 4LW with perhaps late game C usage/FO duties and his usual PK role but they need to better max their ability to run three scoring lines. They already have a pretty elite checking center in Dowd. Do they need a lesser second version at the expense of more formidable scoring lines?

More formidable scoring lines? Are you sure we would get that? Drop Strome to 3c….try it out….I’m game to see if he can succeed with those wings.

 

[Hivemind]

When do we start the Dowd for Selke campaign?

 

[g00n]

Starting to think he’s an odd bird. Can anyone figure out what buttons to push Is the question…

Mantha is starting to remind me of Semin a little bit. AS had a shitload of talent but seemed like he considered himself burdened by it. Like some 7-footers in basketball who just plod through games with zero joy. You can tell they were steered into the sport because of their natural gifts and the attention and money that came with it, and that's all.

 

[Peeri]

Mantha is starting to remind me of Semin a little bit. AS had a shitload of talent but seemed like he considered himself burdened by it. Like some 7-footers in basketball who just plod through games with zero joy. You can tell they were steered into the sport because of their natural gifts and the attention and money that came with it, and that's all.

Except Semin had 5 times the talent that Mantha has. Mantha is the guy who is average at everything, but not excellent in anything.

 

[895]

Mantha is starting to remind me of Semin a little bit. AS had a shitload of talent but seemed like he considered himself burdened by it. Like some 7-footers in basketball who just plod through games with zero joy. You can tell they were steered into the sport because of their natural gifts and the attention and money that came with it, and that's all.

Semin was lazy but he never seemed joyless. On the contrary he always had a goofy smile on his face and did weird funny shit all the time.

 

[Hivemind]

The point where we're more concerned about the facial expressions of a player than the results they produce on the ice is well past the point where we've jumped the shark.

 

[Langway]

More formidable scoring lines? Are you sure we would get that? Drop Strome to 3c….try it out….I’m game to see if he can succeed with those wings.

I'd tend to put Backstrom there instead while he works his way back. The main problem being 19 and 77 together likely won't accomplish a whole lot offensively, even in a softer depth role. Backstrom also figures to eat significantly into Strome's PP role so...it's complicated. I don't think there will be easy solutions sorting out some of these issues in how best to piece it together, esp. since they don't have that many truly dominant tone-setters. It has to continue to be a team effort primarily.

Great to have Backstrom back of course but collectively the issue of pace and creativity remains. They should be more skilled now but if they ease up on their work ethic and support/details figuring results will come easier they'll have another thing coming. I also wonder if subtracting Mantha/Protas doesn't end up making them easier to play against defensively, esp. if a lack of possession rhythm leads to more defending. Count me as at least undecided on whether Milano/Johansson/Sheary will step up enough offensively in tougher contests to not think about loading up on size instead.

They've got a little under two months to figure out how best to finalize the roster before the deadline. But I wonder how decisive they'll end up being by then. Maybe they move out Mantha for a different look or for a defender but I wonder if they'll manage to figure the lines out. Game 1 wasn't a great start.

 

[Jags]

Starting to think he’s an odd bird. Can anyone figure out what buttons to push Is the question…

Yeah, this is why I'm okay with the benching so long as it's temporary (wouldn't much care if he was traded either). It just feels like they're trying everything to get him going.

That being said, it also feels pretty extreme. The situation would have to be really bad to sit him down over Eller. Moving your best center to wing and sticking with your worst center instead of just plain playing your best 4 centers seems like a reach, but I guess they're at the end of their rope with Mantha.

 

[Jags]

More formidable scoring lines? Are you sure we would get that? Drop Strome to 3c….try it out….I’m game to see if he can succeed with those wings.

Not sure why we'd tinker much with a top-6 that's been scoring so well. Leave Strome and Kuznetsov where they were. The "defensive role" of our 3rd line is mostly a myth. It was one thing back when your 3rd-line personnel was all defensively geared, but this isn't Hagelin/Eller/Panik anymore. Our 3Ws are offensively oriented now and we should adapt our approach with that line accordingly. Something like Mantha/Backstrom/Oshie is plenty responsible defensively while also having the right kind of offensive potency without Eller in the mix.

Stick Eller at 4LW and sit Mojo if you have to, but the skills and tendencies of our wings make playing our best 3 offensive centers our best bet, IMO.

 

[Drakon]

Yeah, this is why I'm okay with the benching so long as it's temporary (wouldn't much care if he was traded either). It just feels like they're trying everything to get him going.

That being said, it also feels pretty extreme. The situation would have to be really bad to sit him down over Eller. Moving your best center to wing and sticking with your worst center instead of just plain playing your best 4 centers seems like a reach, but I guess they're at the end of their rope with Mantha.

I have never had much faith in Lavi. His player management seems really terrible.

 

[g00n]

Except Semin had 5 times the talent that Mantha has. Mantha is the guy who is average at everything, but not excellent in anything.

Pretty sure I already said that and made sure the point was obviously not a talent comparison.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'd tend to put Backstrom there instead while he works his way back. The main problem being 19 and 77 together likely won't accomplish a whole lot offensively, even in a softer depth role. Backstrom also figures to eat significantly into Strome's PP role so...it's complicated. I don't think there will be easy solutions sorting out some of these issues in how best to piece it together, esp. since they don't have that many truly dominant tone-setters. It has to continue to be a team effort primarily.

Great to have Backstrom back of course but collectively the issue of pace and creativity remains. They should be more skilled now but if they ease up on their work ethic and support/details figuring results will come easier they'll have another thing coming. I also wonder if subtracting Mantha/Protas doesn't end up making them easier to play against defensively, esp. if a lack of possession rhythm leads to more defending. Count me as at least undecided on whether Milano/Johansson/Sheary will step up enough offensively in tougher contests to not think about loading up on size instead.

They've got a little under two months to figure out how best to finalize the roster before the deadline. But I wonder how decisive they'll end up being by then. Maybe they move out Mantha for a different look or for a defender but I wonder if they'll manage to figure the lines out. Game 1 wasn't a great start.

Seems clear they will force feed Backstrom into the top-6 at C to start as they should for his salary.

Not sure why we'd tinker much with a top-6 that's been scoring so well. Leave Strome and Kuznetsov where they were. The "defensive role" of our 3rd line is mostly a myth. It was one thing back when your 3rd-line personnel was all defensively geared, but this isn't Hagelin/Eller/Panik anymore. Our 3Ws are offensively oriented now and we should adapt our approach with that line accordingly. Something like Mantha/Backstrom/Oshie is plenty responsible defensively while also having the right kind of offensive potency without Eller in the mix.

Stick Eller at 4LW and sit Mojo if you have to, but the skills and tendencies of our wings make playing our best 3 offensive centers our best bet, IMO.

Because you have a 9+ mil a year player who you need to determine if he can carry his weight in the role he’s paid for, I’d wager.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yeah, this is why I'm okay with the benching so long as it's temporary (wouldn't much care if he was traded either). It just feels like they're trying everything to get him going.

That being said, it also feels pretty extreme. The situation would have to be really bad to sit him down over Eller. Moving your best center to wing and sticking with your worst center instead of just plain playing your best 4 centers seems like a reach, but I guess they're at the end of their rope with Mantha.

Again why back to Eller? Is Mantha suiting up at defensive C? It’s clearly a kick him in the ass move, so I doubt Mantha vs Eller was EVER even considered in this.

 

[Brian23]

Again why back to Eller? Is Mantha suiting up at defensive C? It’s clearly a kick him in the ass move, so I doubt Mantha vs Eller was EVER even considered in this.

Which seems ridiculous when Eller brings nothing offensively and is basically meh on defense.

Hold people to the same standards.

 

[RedRocking]

Mantha is starting to remind me of Semin a little bit. AS had a shitload of talent but seemed like he considered himself burdened by it. Like some 7-footers in basketball who just plod through games with zero joy. You can tell they were steered into the sport because of their natural gifts and the attention and money that came with it, and that's all.

Yea, that’s exactly what I’ve been thinking. One of those guys who has the natural talent to be very successful, but just doesn’t love the game.

However, as long as he’s in DC, he’s still one of our 12 best forwards, and most nights the team is better with him on the ice IMO.

 

[Jags]

Mantha is starting to remind me of Semin a little bit. AS had a shitload of talent but seemed like he considered himself burdened by it. Like some 7-footers in basketball who just plod through games with zero joy. You can tell they were steered into the sport because of their natural gifts and the attention and money that came with it, and that's all.

I met Semin a few times at the big fan events. Super nice, but also obviously extremely introverted. He avoided attention and the press like the plague, and he seemed to struggle with the language more as a result. But if you followed him between seasons and when he left for the KHL he was no more apt to talk to the press than he was here. They labeled him a quiet leader. Our press had nothing to work with so they just filled in the blanks and he became Alex The Enigma.

So when the "We're going to build a 2nd line around Semin" era began and lasted for years because GMGM couldn't find a 2C to save his life, Semin checked out. He had every right to be frustrated. He was a creative genius with the puck playing with linemates that couldn't keep up. His attitude left a lot to be desired for sure, but there's nothing enigmatic about a guy who's frustrated for reasons that are plain as day.

We tell a similar story in DC about Jagr; that those were just the years he decided to play worse. And just like Semin, while there's certainly some truth there with regard to his attitude, we also did jack shit to cater to or seriously leverage his abilities. Both guys struggled here for plenty of valid reasons. Attitude and drive were definitely part of it, but giving them more to work with would have helped.

So if Mantha is jaded for similar reasons, he should get over it because he doesn't have the skills to make dealing with this shit worth it. The similarities end with his ceiling.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Which seems ridiculous when Eller brings nothing offensively and is basically meh on defense.

Hold people to the same standards.

Different roles, positions, expectations….Eller to Mantha is not an Apple to Apple comparison. Equal standards as you’re suggesting are never really fully applied in sports….

 

[Jags]

Again why back to Eller? Is Mantha suiting up at defensive C? It’s clearly a kick him in the ass move, so I doubt Mantha vs Eller was EVER even considered in this.

It's not "back to Eller." It's a natural part of the conversation. We forced our best center to wing and a damn good wing to the bench to avoid moving Eller. We're burning a lot of calories keeping a 3C in place that isn't doing much for the team. Moving your top C and benching a standout 5v5 performer is a lot of juggling to do when a much simpler and obvious solution works better for us -- no one playing out of position, everyone playing to their strengths.

And again "defensive C" isn't really a thing here these days. We'd miss Eller on the PK for sure, but not at 3C. Our top 3 centers are all far better suited to leverage the talents of our 3rd-line wings.

 

[Brian23]

Different roles, positions, expectations….Eller to Mantha is not an Apple to Apple comparison.

Are you joking right now?

The literal whole complaint has been trying to make Mantha into a similar role as Eller, and he's actually been deployed as such (with more defensive zone starts then offensive zone ones) and he's just actually better at it then Eller. But we bring that up and it's hand waved away with apples an oranges.