Canucker
Go Hawks!
At $6m/yr, I'd argue he is completely useless to us. He might have some real value by next deadline as a rental with some retainage…that’s about it.
Canucks News, Rumours, & Fantasy GM
- Thread starter Vector
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
- Status
At $6m/yr, I'd argue he is completely useless to us. He might have some real value by next deadline as a rental with some retainage…that’s about it.
There are Myers-level defensemen available for 1.5-3M every summer.
Andy Dufresne
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2009
- 2,862
- 1,116
Sometimes...and yet a guy like Adam Larsson signed for 4M/yr for 4 years. The only thing i've seen proven in the Hronek's next contract debate is that nobody really knows. Outside of a very wide range of possible outcomes. I'd like to watch him play some games in a Canuck uniform before even thinking about his next contract personally.
- Aug 28, 2011
- 18,951
- 24,571
I'd almost roll the dice on any of these guys instead of dealing with Myers at 6 mil:
Trevor Van Riemsdyk, Calvin de Haan, Dmitry Kulikov, Ian Cole
Last edited:
Peter Griffin
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2003
- 35,778
- 8,717
This is nothing like losing Tanev.
Peter Griffin
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2003
- 35,778
- 8,717
Defensive defenseman almost never get paid, just like Chris Tanev. ME Vlasic is probably the biggest outlier but he was elite defensively at one time and had a couple seasons where he flirted with 40 points.
And in the cap system you’re acquiring a players contract as much as you’re acquiring the player so obviously Hronek’s contract is going to be a bit point of discussion given the acquisition cost.
m9
m9
- Jan 23, 2010
- 25,107
- 15,230
The 6 million hit for Myers obviously hurts and if you can move on for free then you probably have to do it.. but it wouldn't bother me too much to have him back next year as a one-year bridge guy.
I think in a depth role instead of how he's used currently on the right side you'll see a better player, and If the team tanks again then he'll have trade deadline value. If we were able to bring in a Livingstone I think a Hronek/Myers combo works out pretty well for sheltering a rookie and then maybe it opens you up to re-coup a mid-round pick for Bear.
Getting out from that Boeser deal is much more of a priority to me.
I think in a depth role instead of how he's used currently on the right side you'll see a better player, and If the team tanks again then he'll have trade deadline value. If we were able to bring in a Livingstone I think a Hronek/Myers combo works out pretty well for sheltering a rookie and then maybe it opens you up to re-coup a mid-round pick for Bear.
Getting out from that Boeser deal is much more of a priority to me.
Diversification
Registered User
- Jun 21, 2019
- 3,514
- 4,657
His lateral mobility looked shot this season. So he's constantly behind the play, chasing players, etc. Without that extra time that his plus skating once afforded him, I have strong reservations that he has the high end hockey sense to play within his present limitations.
It's too bad really. He was an incredible player in his youth - super mobile with a lethal shot. Just too many injuries and father time appears to have caught up to him sooner than with other players.
Josepho
i want the bartkowski thread back
Honestly I think something like Myers and Lekkerimaki for a 3rd from Arizona might be the best bet. There might be teams that still hold him in high regard.
You dont give up on Lekkerimaki that quick, and you dont attach a prospect like that to get rid of 1 year.
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
- 17,804
- 17,319
Were not throwing in Lekkerimaki for Myers???
Just play him on a 3rd pair for a year we need his cap for Pettersson and Hronek and any other raises. Podkolzin etc
Juuso Valimaki was a nice waiver acquisition for ARI
Would have rather we offered them a 4th right before he went on waivers than Dermott
Just play him on a 3rd pair for a year we need his cap for Pettersson and Hronek and any other raises. Podkolzin etc
Juuso Valimaki was a nice waiver acquisition for ARI
Would have rather we offered them a 4th right before he went on waivers than Dermott
wanted to give a try at this. currently with a 4million bonus number for next year (not sure if i did that correctly and current players under contract for next year it looks like we are approx 84.942 on the cap. This number includes Demko & Silovs in net, Hughes/OEL/Myers/Hronek/Poolman on D, Pettersson/Miller/Aman/Mikheyev/Pearson/Kuzmenko/Joshua/Boeser/Garland/Podkolzin/Beauvillier on F. Current signed players technically leave us with one open spot at forward, one open spot at defence, and 3 spares. for this as well i am assuming poolman and pearson are 'healthy'
in my opinion there are only a handful of names worth discussing to re-sign that have potential impact on the big club. Kravtsov, Hoglander, Delia, Wolanin, Brisebois, Burroughs & PDG. this isn't whether or not i WOULD re-sign them, just the names we got/depth we got. i could potentially see krav and hoglander getting one year deals, delia/wolanin/brisebois getting 2 year deals (if kept), burroughs 1 year deal if kept, and PDG i would like to see on a 2 year deal. whether or not we keep them all, guesses would be (going a bit higher in estimation perhaps.
Kravtsov 1x1.125
Hoglander 1x1.125
Delia 2x850K
Wolanin 2x850K
Brisebois 2x850K
Burroughs 1x850K
PDG 2x850K
Now Ethan Bear - personally i would try and push the 1 year term, favor to the player and to avoid any of those middle poolman/pearson type deals. 1 year @2.5 million. IF he all of a sudden proves he's worth more, great, means he's good - if not, it's one year. so signing these players, and changing Delia/Hoglander/Kravtsov/PDG and adding Bear to the NHL roster we become 8ish million in the hole - now with 14 forwards / 6 defence / 2 goalies.
i'm going to take a different approach than what i have read (i don't remember seeing it anyway) - but moving two players (boeser / myers) with retention. Boeser @ 25% and Myers @ 33% (putting him at 4 million cap hit. we would be retaining 3.662 for these two players - in doing this it brings cap down to $81,618,750, or 1.881 in space. This also leaves us with 13 forwards, 5 defence, 2 goalies. This is still assuming Pearson and Poolman are healthy. a lineup of:
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]LW[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]kuzmenko[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Elias Pettersson[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]beauvillier[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]mikheyev[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]JT Miller[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]garland[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]pearson[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]PDG[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]podkolzin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Joshua[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]aman[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]hoglander[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EXTRA[/TD]
[TD]kravtsov[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DEFENSIVE PAIRINGS[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Quinn Hughes[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]bear[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Thatcher Demko[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]hronek[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]delia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ekman-larsson[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Tucker Poolman[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EXTRA[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
How hard would it be in this case to move off of pearson and poolman 'paying someone to take them' - a lot less in my opinion than 'paying' to take the other ones. let's say we can get a deal done for removing both of them - and let's say we retain 25% on pearson. This brings us down to 12 forwards, 4 defence, goalies, cap now at 76.681, or approx 6.8 in space. There is no doubt we are pushing for some college guys, for the purpose of this excercise i will put whoever we get (i am confident we can get 1) at a 2 year / 1.825 (or 912,500per) contract. brings us back to 5 defence, cap hit of 77.593 or 5.9 in space and the following lineup:
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]LW[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]kuzmenko[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Elias Pettersson[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]beauvillier[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]mikheyev[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]JT Miller[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]garland[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]joshua[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]PDG[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]podkolzin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]kravtsov[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]aman[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]hoglander[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EXTRA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DEFENSIVE PAIRINGS[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Quinn Hughes[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]bear[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Thatcher Demko[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]hronek[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]delia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ekman-larsson[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]collge UFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EXTRA[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
There is a glaring hole at 3C, and another hole on LHD and no spares. with 5.9 of space - if we want to carry 3 spares, full roster we have 1.476 million per player to do it (which is fine if we go internal/someone surprises) or if no spares, we have 5.9 for that defenceman (ignoring the 3C) or 5.9 split between the two. then - looking ahead to the following season, off the bat we have 36.9 in cap space available for pettersson/podkolzin/hoglander/beauvillier/hronek as the main notables (with joshua/bear/kravtsov/aman as secondary)
so a template of this going into the season - it doesn't look horrid - and there are a couple details that can be mentioned
- not taking into account anything we get for boeser (player or future based)
- not taking into account anything we get for myers (player or future based)
- not taking into account anything we get for pearson (player or future based)
- still retain some tradeable pieces for 3C or defenceman - 24 1st, Raty, Hoglander
horrible? pitchforks? not so bads? I believe that a buyout for OEL is looked at next off season (24/25) depending on if he rebounds this year. at that time, it could be re-evaluated where the team is and if the savings provide enough cost/benefit to use it effectively.
in my opinion there are only a handful of names worth discussing to re-sign that have potential impact on the big club. Kravtsov, Hoglander, Delia, Wolanin, Brisebois, Burroughs & PDG. this isn't whether or not i WOULD re-sign them, just the names we got/depth we got. i could potentially see krav and hoglander getting one year deals, delia/wolanin/brisebois getting 2 year deals (if kept), burroughs 1 year deal if kept, and PDG i would like to see on a 2 year deal. whether or not we keep them all, guesses would be (going a bit higher in estimation perhaps.
Kravtsov 1x1.125
Hoglander 1x1.125
Delia 2x850K
Wolanin 2x850K
Brisebois 2x850K
Burroughs 1x850K
PDG 2x850K
Now Ethan Bear - personally i would try and push the 1 year term, favor to the player and to avoid any of those middle poolman/pearson type deals. 1 year @2.5 million. IF he all of a sudden proves he's worth more, great, means he's good - if not, it's one year. so signing these players, and changing Delia/Hoglander/Kravtsov/PDG and adding Bear to the NHL roster we become 8ish million in the hole - now with 14 forwards / 6 defence / 2 goalies.
i'm going to take a different approach than what i have read (i don't remember seeing it anyway) - but moving two players (boeser / myers) with retention. Boeser @ 25% and Myers @ 33% (putting him at 4 million cap hit. we would be retaining 3.662 for these two players - in doing this it brings cap down to $81,618,750, or 1.881 in space. This also leaves us with 13 forwards, 5 defence, 2 goalies. This is still assuming Pearson and Poolman are healthy. a lineup of:
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]LW[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]kuzmenko[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Elias Pettersson[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]beauvillier[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]mikheyev[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]JT Miller[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]garland[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]pearson[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]PDG[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]podkolzin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Joshua[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]aman[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]hoglander[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EXTRA[/TD]
[TD]kravtsov[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DEFENSIVE PAIRINGS[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Quinn Hughes[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]bear[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Thatcher Demko[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]hronek[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]delia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ekman-larsson[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Tucker Poolman[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EXTRA[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
How hard would it be in this case to move off of pearson and poolman 'paying someone to take them' - a lot less in my opinion than 'paying' to take the other ones. let's say we can get a deal done for removing both of them - and let's say we retain 25% on pearson. This brings us down to 12 forwards, 4 defence, goalies, cap now at 76.681, or approx 6.8 in space. There is no doubt we are pushing for some college guys, for the purpose of this excercise i will put whoever we get (i am confident we can get 1) at a 2 year / 1.825 (or 912,500per) contract. brings us back to 5 defence, cap hit of 77.593 or 5.9 in space and the following lineup:
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]LW[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]kuzmenko[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Elias Pettersson[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]beauvillier[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]mikheyev[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]JT Miller[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]garland[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]joshua[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]PDG[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]podkolzin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]kravtsov[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]aman[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]hoglander[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EXTRA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DEFENSIVE PAIRINGS[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Quinn Hughes[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]bear[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Thatcher Demko[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]hronek[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]delia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ekman-larsson[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]collge UFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EXTRA[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
There is a glaring hole at 3C, and another hole on LHD and no spares. with 5.9 of space - if we want to carry 3 spares, full roster we have 1.476 million per player to do it (which is fine if we go internal/someone surprises) or if no spares, we have 5.9 for that defenceman (ignoring the 3C) or 5.9 split between the two. then - looking ahead to the following season, off the bat we have 36.9 in cap space available for pettersson/podkolzin/hoglander/beauvillier/hronek as the main notables (with joshua/bear/kravtsov/aman as secondary)
so a template of this going into the season - it doesn't look horrid - and there are a couple details that can be mentioned
- not taking into account anything we get for boeser (player or future based)
- not taking into account anything we get for myers (player or future based)
- not taking into account anything we get for pearson (player or future based)
- still retain some tradeable pieces for 3C or defenceman - 24 1st, Raty, Hoglander
horrible? pitchforks? not so bads? I believe that a buyout for OEL is looked at next off season (24/25) depending on if he rebounds this year. at that time, it could be re-evaluated where the team is and if the savings provide enough cost/benefit to use it effectively.
Josepho
i want the bartkowski thread back
I mean, at this point I'd probably consider Lekkerimaki's value to be around a mid to late 2nd, at a position group we don't REALLY need.
Also, in the majority of cases teams would probably be smarter to move on from stagnating prospects earlier rather than later.
I don't think Allvin has the balls to do it but if he has a specific plan with that extra 6 million I'd definitely consider it. I have no idea what other GMs are thinking but I'd definitely test the waters on Lekkerimaki before we get a Turcotte-like situation.
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
I wouldn't be looking to cut bait on Lekkiermaki just yet, especially not as a throw in on a cap dump trade.
I get his value is low, but he just had a season from hell as far as injury and illness went. There's valid concerns about his overall development. But I'd like to afford him a chance to get his feet back under him next season before determining what we do or don't have with him.
I get his value is low, but he just had a season from hell as far as injury and illness went. There's valid concerns about his overall development. But I'd like to afford him a chance to get his feet back under him next season before determining what we do or don't have with him.
rypper
21-12-05 it's finally over.
- Dec 22, 2006
- 18,224
- 24,459
Ridiculous. It hasn't even been a calendar year since Lekkerimaki was drafted.
He hasn't had a great year but that's way too early. Turcotte was drafted in the 2019 draft, it's not the same situation.
m9
m9
- Jan 23, 2010
- 25,107
- 15,230
I value Lekkerimaki probably in-between most people (early 2nd-ish) but I don't Myers is negative value to Arizona after the bonus has been paid.
Lekkerimaki & Myers for Arizona 2nd I'm okay with.
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
- 17,804
- 17,319
PDG is not an NHL C
We would be idiots to retain on Boeser and Myers when we could just move a winger without (Garland Beauvillier)
Garland has not established himself in the top6 since he arrived....i would move him to get cap space. Failing that just move Beauvilllier he's a UFA at seasons end anyway and is a top6 tweener like Garland
Pearson is getting bought out.
Poolman is LTIR for his career. Would be an idiot to not but you never know if he wants to throw away 1.2 million to play hockey as a 3rd pair journeyman
m9
m9
- Jan 23, 2010
- 25,107
- 15,230
It's fine as a template (deleting boeser, pearson, myers) I just don't like how you got there by using all three retention slots. Contracts seem fine.
Josepho
i want the bartkowski thread back
Why are you so sure that we can move Garland/Beauvillier without?
Also Garland/Beauvillier are definitely more versatile and you can throw them wherever in the lineup. Boeser has more dead cap than either of those players and I have no confidence in him in a bottom 6 role.
Pdg more of just a placeholder in that graphic - in theory i should have left a big X there for a visual
I think boeser has the most shine out of him garland and beauvillier but i think the latter are better hockey players. I think garland is a better player than boeser.. and cheaper and would choose him. Part of what i tried was retaining on boeser to see how much it would actually hurt.. and it is manageable
pearson bought out is an option as well yes.. but that would have reduced what I would have retained on boeser
You can never assume with these guys re poolman. We are on the outside.. and you plan as if he is healthy to account for that cobtract. Moving him is a priority if he isnt healthy and almost as important if he isnt healthy in my opinion
Yeah i hear you. The buyout of pearson is an option as well.. and even him at his full salary i dont think will be too awkward to move whether it is the arizona wasteland or like an anaheim.. who whether people agree or not can use veterans and pearson is a pro no doubt
Josepho
i want the bartkowski thread back
Nucker101
Foundational Poster
- Apr 2, 2013
- 22,551
- 19,200
The goal is to compete during these next 4 seasons before Hughes can walk. I’d say any futures(including Lekk) should be on the table for players who fit that 4 season timeline. So I’d say any 25/26 year old and younger who can be an upgrade for this team right away.
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
- 17,804
- 17,319
Beauvillier will be easy to move off he's on a expiring contract with a horrendous free agent class this summer. I would try Garland first he hasn't really fit here.
Boeser PPs and i wouldn't mind giving him a chance to get fit and healthy 1 last time. He might be a 2nd line luxury scorer but that's more than what Garland has been as he constantly finds a way to play himsef down the lineup. Hoglander or Kravtsov can replace him. More likely Hoglander. Garland is a better 5v5 player but in heavy checking games he gets pushed out of the play.
I'm ok with any of them TBH i just would rather create flexibility and Garland has the most term and is a 5 million dollar tweener who's not good in special teams play
m9
m9
- Jan 23, 2010
- 25,107
- 15,230
If we pay the bonus then I think the favours even out. I don't think your proposal is crazy or anything though.
Doubt this management moves on from their initial first round pick anyway though, More likely you see a draft pick or a different prospect moved along.
- Status
