Canes Offer Sheet KK (6.1 for 1 yr) Part II

[Zorba]

wth man? he's a 2C (3C at worse). Big, strong, bit of a mean streak - good skater, good hands, good attitude. Balance is weak (which can be improved with weight training). He's certain;ly not worth $6M but that's been established - MB cost us that. We've gone years with a $9M LW called Cap Space. You tell me, what 2C we can get to fill the role? none.

28 pts in 92 games disagrees with everything you say
You’re strictly going on potential

 

[themilosh]

If the 2022 draft is as good as some say, I'd take the picks. Carolina might not be as good without Hamilton.

i could see the Canes be in trouble with Hamilton gone.
Only saving grace for MB would be to land Eichel. He'll have to throw in an extra 1st rounder, and overpay with a prospect - but otheriwse Eichel would secure our Center woes.

 

[dcyhabs]

The canes aren't supposed to challenge for the cup, they are not a lock to make the playoffs. If they are in the lottery the pick could be good.

Sitting JK for cup games that they weren't going to win in any case was a dumb move. Sure coaches do what they think will make them win, but it's up to the GM to prevent them from making the offseason difficult.

MB doesn't seem to be able to negotiate in any case, his ego gets in the way. Someone else should be invovled in player retention.

RDS said the canes made offers to the habs for Kotkaniemi. TSN said that "sources near him" said he wouldn't be back after being benched in the finals. Who knows how reliable either of those reports are...

Kotkaniemi still has pressure to play this year. If he doesn't improve a lot no one is going to pick up another year at 6M.

The habs need someone with vision. If they are not going to extend MB, or if he does not want an extension, they should move on.

With the other losses making the playoffs this year is a toss up in any case. Either they sign Kotkaniemi and see what happens for the trade deadline (can't trade him, but they may well be sellers), or they start the rebuild.

It's not like Kotkaniemi has busted. He hasn't broken out yet, but he was supposed to be a project and they rushed him. It's possible he could earn the money this year, or at least make it up long term.

 

[habdynasty]

Buffalo is not trading within the division.

 

[Zorba]

Drafting for need rarely works

And this is why he will match the offer. He coulda had Hughes or Tkachuk Letting kotkaniemi go would be a massive stain on his legacy.
6.1 is ludicrous but Bergevin has no other option

 

[SOLR]

why is it Aho could sign a QO from MTL, and end up staying in CAR with no issues?

He signed a QO close to his value. KK just signed a QO for 3x his value.

 

[calder candidate]

MB made a bad decision on drafting him in the first place
this is the best scenario to get two picks back and let the inconsistent kid walk he's not worth $6 million dollars for his production is skating his face off
he's a third line center at best so pay him that enjoy it canes and don't let the door hit you on the way out KK

The bad decision was to play him at 18yo, that wasn’t good management. this exact situation might not have been foreseeable back than but there was impact to is RFA/UFA and there was the expansion draft it should have been enough to push us in the right direction.

 

[Frankenheimer]

As much as I would like to say goodbye to KK given the situation, I think it would be a mistake to let him go. This is the year where he would be expected to show some growth. Let him show it, and if not, he can be dealt next year. And if he shows he's worth it, giving him a nice contract will be easy. Screws up the cap this year a bit, solutions will need to be found.

 

[ROEN]

The bad decision was to play him at 18yo, that wasn’t good management. this exact situation might not have been foreseeable back than but there was impact to is RFA/UFA and there was the expansion draft it should have been enough to push us in the right direction.

I agree playing him at 18 was unnecessary organizationally

 

[Archijerej]

Apparently, Pagnotta said that he thinks Dvorak would cost less than the 1st and 3rd we would get from Carolina if we don't match this.

This can't be right.

 

[Hins77]

I didnt think KK had a first pick value market . Nice cause Bergevin doesnt need to shop him. We just need to stop saying he is a third overall picks. This is timmins fault. Thats it. KK never show constance and progrrssion curve is already declining. Odds are negative right now. He need to jump and get another gear really soon

 

[Adam Michaels]

Ray Lalonde, who is a marketing guy that has worked in big places, who was also once the Habs' marketing guy during the Gillette years, said his opinion is that Habs won't match the offer. He said that the organization isn't as enamored with KK as they are with Suzuki and Caufield. And he also says that at this moment, they don't have the cap to match the offer. They would need to move pieces around to create space.

I mentioned this earlier that even if Weber's cap hit will come off the books when he goes to LTIR, the Habs can't place him there until they need to submit their roster to the league the night before opening night. So until then, Weber's cap hit counts. Also during the off-season, teams can go 10% over the cap. If Habs match the KK offer sheet, they will go over that 10% cushion.

 

[Frankenheimer]

They would need to move pieces around to create space.

That's what they will do if they want to keep him. They won't let him go just because they don't want to move pieces around. If they let him go, it's because they judge that a 1st and 3rd is worth more than KK will be worth next year at the same time as now. That will be the bottom line. And I don't think that can predicted beyond a 60% or so confidence, so that means the Habs will match the offer, unless they find a taker for the picks that would allow for an equivalent replacement (2 or 3C with upside).

 

[Redux91]

Ray Lalonde, who is a marketing guy that has worked in big places, who was also once the Habs' marketing guy during the Gillette years, said his opinion is that Habs won't match the offer. He said that the organization isn't as enamored with KK as they are with Suzuki and Caufield. And he also says that at this moment, they don't have the cap to match the offer. They would need to move pieces around to create space.

I mentioned this earlier that even if Weber's cap hit will come off the books when he goes to LTIR, the Habs can't place him there until they need to submit their roster to the league the night before opening night. So until then, Weber's cap hit counts. Also during the off-season, teams can go 10% over the cap. If Habs match the KK offer sheet, they will go over that 10% cushion.

Do you ever have any GOOD news!

 

[SakuKoivu11]

I didnt think KK had a first pick value market . Nice cause Bergevin doesnt need to shop him. We just need to stop saying he is a third overall picks. This is timmins fault. Thats it. KK never show constance and progrrssion curve is already declining. Odds are negative right now. He need to jump and get another gear really soon

I agree. If you take KK status away as a former 3rd overall pick and evaluate him as an NHL player. He’s not worth $6.1 mil or whatever. His lack of judgment $20 which he and his agent knew. His lack of improvement over the three years.
He’s probably a mid to late first so it all comes down to the money. I would take the picks.

 

[Adam Michaels]

That's what they will do if they want to keep him. They won't let him go just because they don't want to move pieces around. If they let him go, it's because they judge that a 1st and 3rd is worth more than KK will be worth next year at the same time as now. That will be the bottom line. And I don't think that can predicted beyond a 60% or so confidence, so that means the Habs will match the offer, unless they find a taker for the pics that would allow for an equivalent replacement (2 or 3C with upside).

This is what I think is happening now. MB is probably working the phones to see if the picks he can get can be used to acquire a center.

And it doesn't mean they will move the Carolina picks in a deal. For example, they'll get a 1st from Carolina, but they also have their own 1st. So Habs may end up using their own 1st round pick and keep the Carolina pick. But the gist of it is that they would have two 1st round picks and they can use one in a deal.

 

[Theodore450]

Acquire an offensive C? What in Beregvin's entire tenure leads you to believe he is capable of doing that?

Year after year after year of the same excuses for nearly a decade "we tried but it takes 2 to tango", "we tried but there were none available", "signing centers is hard", etc... And you still think he can acquire one??

he literally acquired a 71 point Center in domi 3 years ago.

 

[covfefe]

This can't be right.

Agreed - it’s not like we would be negotiating from a position of strength in the event that KK walks

 

[Adam Michaels]

Do you ever have any GOOD news!

I'm in the camp of preferring to take the picks and go acquire a center. So hearing Lalonde say he thinks they won't match is good with me. For those wondering, he's only sharing his opinion. He's not saying it as some kind of inside info.

 

[Edgy]

he literally acquired a 71 point Center in domi 3 years ago.

Fluke season Domi? Really? He's a 71 point center as much as Doruin is.

 

[BLONG7]

Ray Lalonde, who is a marketing guy that has worked in big places, who was also once the Habs' marketing guy during the Gillette years, said his opinion is that Habs won't match the offer. He said that the organization isn't as enamored with KK as they are with Suzuki and Caufield. And he also says that at this moment, they don't have the cap to match the offer. They would need to move pieces around to create space.

I mentioned this earlier that even if Weber's cap hit will come off the books when he goes to LTIR, the Habs can't place him there until they need to submit their roster to the league the night before opening night. So until then, Weber's cap hit counts. Also during the off-season, teams can go 10% over the cap. If Habs match the KK offer sheet, they will go over that 10% cushion.

The organization is not enamored with KK, well they weren't with Sergachev either, and now we have magic beans Drouin who they were enamored with......Maybe the guy who makes the decision is a clown?

 

[Adam Michaels]

After the Hossa gloves.... we have Eichel headed to Montreal with hockey sticks.

 

[Theodore450]

Fluke season Domi? Really? He's a 71 point center as much as Doruin is.

Suzuki? Danault ? Say why you want nuts he’s acquired more quality centres than any of the prior Gms. And fluke or not he acquired a 70 point Center, don’t discredit when you ask for an example lmao

 

[le_sean]

Bergevin made an hostile offer to screwed Carolina and he expected everybody including Carolina to play fair. Come on.

That totally on MB. If you play with fire is because you know the chances of getting burned.

How did it screw Carolina? They have one of the best young centres in the game locked up to a fair contract. You can argue wit was hostile to their cheap owner, but in a salary cap world, Aho’s contract is very good. KK at $6m is a joke.

 

[The Great Weal]

Don't know how much truth there is to this because the 2C spot was going to be KKs.