Canes Offer Sheet KK (6.1 for 1 yr) Part II

[Lafleurs Guy]

I disagree with you. At least for the Canes players, every agent will use it as a comparable. Just like Marner and Matthews use Tavares contract as a comparable, even if he was a UFA when he signed that contract.

Like I said before, whoever get Kotkaniemi at this price will screw their salary structure. That s why I m sure Bergevin won t match.

KK is not going to make six mil next year unless he crushes it.

Nobody will use this as a comparable. Esp with the 20 dollar signing bonus being out there.

The Canes were very explicit in how they structured this. It was very clearly a f*** you to MB. Nobody can seriously try to compare this deal to anything. It won’t work.

The only case I think where it might be used is by Suzuki. And that’s part of why this is so diabolical.

 

[LaP]

The comments everywhere about this are borderline nonsensical. Most people seem to think we should not match and that this is not bad. This is awful. The only reality where not matching should be considered is the reality where JK is a bust. Yet i've been arguing his lack of progress was worrying here for a good year and most of the replies were that he had tremendous potential and i was wrong if not stupid to be worried. So most people seemed to think he still had 3rd overall potential and i was wrong to worry yet most people seem to think we should not match. This is nonsensical 100%.

Even me one of his biggest detractor can't fathom the fact we might be losing a 21 years old 3rd overall pick for a late 1st round pick and other inconsequential picks. Even if JK develop as a solid 3rd line center this is not that great of a return. People act like this is no big deal Poehling will replace him. Obviously Pehling could replace JK's current production (an healthy Byron probably could) but that's not what this team needs. This team needs a 2nd line center. And while i was doubtful about JK's ability to develop as one i'm even more doubtful about Poehling that i ever was about JK. If we don't match we are stuck with an awful center line, no hope it becomes better, not much space on the cap to do anything and not much to offer to fix the issue as JK was probably the best piece we had to trade for one.

Not only that but looking at our lineup if we don't match then what I see is a rebuilding team but we a bunch of long term contract given to a bunch of vets who should start to decline soon and a team with a prospects pool having lot of question marks and mostly only two guys currently proven as NHLer. I still strongly believe MB should have been a seller at the deadline 2020. He's stuck in a bad situation people thinking otherwise are just fouling themselves.

 

[sampollock]

Can't blame him
MB was not offering him 6 mill

 

[Doc McKenna]

I agree with you, anyone saying KK is wrong for accepting this is a hypocrite. Throw 6 mil in anyone's face and see how they would react.
The big winner in all if this is KK. He had no choice but to accept this, if anything, he would have been an idiot not to.

I think Bergy was the one who said, if you want loyalty, get a dog.

Couldn't have said it better.

ETA and that cuts in both directions. My name is on the trade block...again. To buffalo without Eichel??? Yeah Naw I'm good dawg laterz.

 

[JianYang]

I think it makes sense on many levels. If KK doesn’t work out... no biggie. If he does, it’s a steal. Great move on their part.


It was always stupid how we handled him.

We played Staal over him, haven’t developed him properly, his name is being bounced around in an Eichel trade, he’s probably being strong armed in negotiations... of course he signed.

Can you elaborate on "so many levels" I've explained in detail why its not a great decision for them, but I'm interested to hear these multi level arguments with a different view.

 

[Cyrrus147]

KK is not going to make six mil next year unless he crushes it.

Nobody will use this as a comparable. Esp with the 20 dollar signing bonus being out there.

The Canes were very explicit in how they structured this. It was very clearly a f*** you to MB. Nobody can seriously try to compare this deal to anything. It won’t work.

His qualifying offer next season can't be lower than 6,1 M$. So even if he s a heathly scratch for 82 games, he ll make at least 6,1 M$ until he's a free agent (unless he willingly accepts less on a multi-year deal). So it won t be an one shot deal.

 

[JoelWarlord]

So most people seemed to think he still had 3rd overall potential and i was wrong to worry yet most people seem to think we should not match. This is nonsensical 100%.

I would guess some of these are different people but even if they're the same people that's not necessarily logically inconsistent. I still have a high belief in Kotkaniemi but I don't have 100% confidence he'll pan out, and this contract pays him like he's already hit his ceiling. Believing in Kotkaniemi's potential is not the same thing as being willing to pay him like a 1st line forward at 21 years old and going into next year with a 6.1M QO as well.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Can you elaborate on "so many levels" I've explained in detail why its not a great decision for them, but I'm interested to hear these multi level arguments with a different view.

I wrote about it before.

1. They could steal a good young player with only a short term deal to start. If he works out, they can sign him for less next year if they wanted to.

2. There’s little risk. If he doesn’t work out... no biggie. They give up some lower picks. Well worth it for KK.

3. It sends a message to the league not to go after your players. This is huge and had to be done.

4. It totally screws an opponent who previously screwed you.

 

[sampollock]

I would guess some of these are different people but even if they're the same people that's not necessarily logically inconsistent. I still have a high belief in Kotkaniemi but I don't have 100% confidence he'll pan out, and this contract pays him like he's already hit his ceiling. Believing in Kotkaniemi's potential is not the same thing as being willing to pay him like a 1st line forward at 21 years old and going into next year with a 6.1M QO as well.

With his Numbers
Skating problems
Good bye

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

His qualifying offer next season can't be lower than 6,1 M$. So even if he s a heathly scratch for 82 games, he ll make at least 6,1 M$ until he's a free agent (unless he willingly accepts less on a multi-year deal). So it won t be an one shot deal.

If he goes to Carolina there is no qualifying offer. He becomes a UFA.

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

Taking the picks gives the Habs more options you could tank the season and re-tool in a good draft or you can trade the picks for a center better than Kotkaniemi if you put Drouin in that trade than you can also sign Bozak and have a decent center line.

 

[JoelWarlord]

2. There’s little risk. If he doesn’t work out... no biggie. They give up some lower picks. Well worth it for KK.

I dunno about that. There's a pretty massive opportunity cost involved here for a team that should be in the middle of a competitive window.

 

[thewall]

Its better they did it with KK then Suzuki. His brother is part of the Canes too.

 

[LaP]

I would guess some of these are different people but even if they're the same people that's not necessarily logically inconsistent. I still have a high belief in Kotkaniemi but I don't have 100% confidence he'll pan out, and this contract pays him like he's already hit his ceiling. Believing in Kotkaniemi's potential is not the same thing as being willing to pay him like a 1st line forward at 21 years old and going into next year with a 6.1M QO as well.

If you think there's 15% chance JK live up to his draft rank then you match. It's just one year.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Its better they did it with KK then Suzuki. His brother is part of the Canes too.

Suzuki... I have no doubt they match it.

KK.... I think they won't. My opinion. They could just as easily match for KK.

But for Suzuki.... there is no doubt they match any offer sheet.

 

[LaP]

Taking the picks gives the Habs more options you could tank the season and re-tool in a good draft or you can trade the picks for a center better than Kotkaniemi if you put Drouin in that trade than you can also sign Bozak and have a decent center line.

You wont get better than JK for a late first unless this is a rental at the deadline.

 

[Cyrrus147]

If he goes to Carolina there is no qualifying offer. He becomes a UFA.

I would like know where you saw this? As far I understand the rule, if a RFA accept an offer from an other team, he s still not elligible to be UFA next season.

 

[GordonGraham]

Cant blame the guy for taking double or maybe even triple money than what MB was offering but for his sake i hope the team doesnt match. At 6.1m expectations will be super high, +the perception from some that he's a traitor for taking this deal the crowd/fanbase will be super hard on him

 

[CH25]

When Bergevin offer sheeted Aho it was actually to try and improve the team on the ice. This here is a move out of pure pettiness and spite.

 

[sampollock]

I would like know where you saw this? As far I understand the rule, if a RFA accept an offer from an other team, he s still not elligible to be UFA next season.

RFA

 

[expy]

I would like know where you saw this? As far I understand the rule, if a RFA accept an offer from an other team, he s still not elligible to be UFA next season.

He is if they don't qualify him.

 

[Metallo]

After the 4th he can.

Again no. If MTL matches, any extention with KK will have to wait after Jan 1 2022 as this is a 1 yr agreement.

 

[Whitesnake]

Only way JK leaves is if Bergevin can find a solution within the next 7 days by acquiring a better player. If he can't, he signs JK.

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

For Suzuki you do the 7 or 8 years 7.5 millions and below extension as soon as possible.

 

[Adam Michaels]

If he goes to Carolina there is no qualifying offer. He becomes a UFA.

No. He remains an RFA.