Canes Offer Sheet KK (6.1 for 1 yr) Part II

[Tyson]

After reading and reviewing I think a 1st and a 3rd for Kotkaniemi is a steal. No way Habs should pay 6.1 for this player. I believe Carolina is praying the Habs match...their pettiness is going to backfire.

 

[sampollock]

Media and fans will devour KK here, to sign for 6 mill he will be target.

Let him go

 

[LaP]

For Suzuki you do the 7 or 8 years 7.5 millions and below extension as soon as possible.

I don't think MB believes in this for kids. Unless Suzuki has a 70 points season or something like that if he does between 55 and 60 points he'll try to bridge him.

 

[sampollock]

After reading and reviewing I think a 1st and a 3rd for Kotkaniemi is a steal. No way Habs should pay 6.1 for this player. I believe Carolina is praying the Habs match...their pettiness is going to backfire.

Yup
Screw the canes

 

[Cyrrus147]

He is if they don't qualify him.

Yeah exactly, so that was my point. Either they pay him at least 6,1M$ or they lose him as a free agent.

 

[sampollock]

KK is a 3rd line centre, so 6 is way to much

 

[thewall]

Suzuki... I have no doubt they match it.

KK.... I think they won't. My opinion. They could just as easily match for KK.

But for Suzuki.... there is no doubt they match any offer sheet.

Yes I agree but still, not sure i want Suzuki to even think he wants out of Mtl.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yeah exactly, so that was my point. Either they pay him at least 6,1M$ or they lose him as a free agent.

I’m pretty sure they can decide to not qualify him, he becomes UFA and then can sign with them for less. If anyone has different info I’d love to see it,

 

[sampollock]

Le Brun

Hurricanes did try to trade for Kotkaniemi instead over the past several days but nothing that came close to making the Habs interested. So Dundon gets his offer sheet revenge.

 

[expy]

Yeah exactly, so that was my point. Either they pay him at least 6,1M$ or they lose him as a free agent.

I think they don't care if they lose him. You can also negotiate a smaller contract and the player can choose to accept it. I don't think any GM is going to qualify him at 6.1m short of a killer season.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

If the habs let KK go for a first round pick in the bottom of the draft and he breaks out that's going to look absolutely pathetic.

I think we have no choice but to match and eat the cap hit and then work on an extension at something a little more reasonable.

 

[Adam Michaels]

In the off-season, teams aren't allowed to go 10% over the cap. That means you can't go over $89.65M (81.5 + 8.15 = 89.65). Look ma, I math'ed .

According to CapFriendly, Habs are now at $83.77M. If they match the offer, they will be at $89.87. So they'll be over the 10% cushion.

We know Weber will be placed on LTIR (and maybe Byron). But they can't do that before the start of the season. That means that during the off-season, Weber's (and Byron's) cap hits still count.

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

If the habs let KK go for a first round pick in the bottom of the draft and he breaks out that's going to look absolutely pathetic.

I think we have no choice but to match and eat the cap hit and then work on an extension at something a little more reasonable.

I think Kotkaniemi has no intention to do that with the Habs. It's a 6.1 + millions QO every year until he is UFA. No thank you.

 

[JianYang]

I wrote about it before.

1. They could steal a good young player with only a short term deal to start. If he works out, they can sign him for less next year if they wanted to.

2. There’s little risk. If he doesn’t work out... no biggie. They give up some lower picks. Well worth it for KK.

3. It sends a message to the league not to go after your players. This is huge and had to be done.

4. It totally screws an opponent who previously screwed you.

As for #1, if he has a good year, why would he not explore the the market as a UFA at age 22, especially if carolina offers him less?

#2 - The risk is the opportunity cost. For a team like that, the stanley cup is not too far out of reach, and thats when the vision shifts to short term. Tampa used their picks and prospects to get more proven guys like McDonagh and Miller when they reached near the deadline. The canes used their flexibility on a project that most likely will need more than one year to hit his stride still. Its not smart use of their cap relative to where they are as a team.

#3 Yep, Dundon has ensured that nobody will offer sheet him again. Philly and Edmonton have sent multiple offer sheets in the cap era including for players like Vanek, Weber, and Kesler (and Penner which worked), but none of those teams faced a revenge offer sheet. I'm trying to think back of any revenge offer sheets in this cap era. If there were any, it is extremely rare, and I dont think the teams listed above ever were picked on for subsequent offer sheets, so you can also argue whether its important at all to send this sort of message.

#4 This is an irrelevant point towards the goal of constructing a good roster. This is a point for ego stroking.

 

[CHfan1]

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

As for #1, if he has a good year, why would he not explore the the market as a UFA at age 22, especially if carolina offers him less?

#2 - The risk is the opportunity cost. For a team like that, the stanley cup is not too far out of reach, and thats when the vision shifts to short term. Tampa used their picks and prospects to get more proven guys like McDonagh and Miller near the deadline. The canes used their flexibility on a project that most likely will need more than one year to hit his stride still. Its not smart use of their cap.

#3 Yep, Dundon has ensured that nobody will offer sheet him again. Philly and Edmonton have sent multiple offer sheets in the cap era including for players like Vanek, Weber, and Kesler (and Penner which worked), but none of those teams faced a revenge offer sheet. I'm trying to think back of any revenge offer sheets in this cap era. If there were any, it is extremely rare, and I dont think the teams listed above ever were picked on for subsequent offer sheets, so you can also argue whether its important at all to send this sort of message.

#4 This is an irrelevant point towards the goal of constructing a good roster. This is a point for ego stroking.

I disagree with pretty much everything you’ve written here. But that’s cool. We’ll disagree.

 

[The Great Weal]

Le Brun

Hurricanes did try to trade for Kotkaniemi instead over the past several days but nothing that came close to making the Habs interested. So Dundon gets his offer sheet revenge.

I do wonder if there is any truth to this. Canes aren't in a great situation either cap wise so taking on a 6.1 million KK doesn't seem like the smart move. They are also loaded down the middle.

 

[sandviper]

In the off-season, teams aren't allowed to go 10% over the cap. That means you can't go over $89.65M (81.5 + 8.15 = 89.65). Look ma, I math'ed .

According to CapFriendly, Habs are now at $83.77M. If they match the offer, they will be at $89.87. So they'll be over the 10% cushion.

We know Weber will be placed on LTIR (and maybe Byron). But they can't do that before the start of the season. That means that during the off-season, Weber's (and Byron's) cap hits still count.

Oh, Carolina… you mathematician bastards…

 

[Whitesnake]

If the habs let KK go for a first round pick in the bottom of the draft and he breaks out that's going to look absolutely pathetic.

I think we have no choice but to match and eat the cap hit and then work on an extension at something a little more reasonable.

That's what will happen. Unless we find a way to get Eichel. People should stop with freaking Dvorak.

But then here lies the question...how the f*** will it be easier to come with an extension AFTER what is happening right now compared to just come to a contact this summer PRIOR to what is happening right now? JK and his agent knows that if the Habs are not interesting in qualifying him next season, he choose the team he wants to be in. And in the end, if JK wants to go....he won't sign that extension.

So in the end, it could even come to this....Bergevin thinks we can make another great push this year wiht JK and that we will lose him for nothing. Or you trade him and get that return.

Do people not realize how bad Bergevin is looking. He thought he was handcuffing the Canes. He actually gave them a superb contract. And then the Canes are the one who are handcuffing him.

 

[Agalloch]

In the off-season, teams aren't allowed to go 10% over the cap. That means you can't go over $89.65M (81.5 + 8.15 = 89.65). Look ma, I math'ed .

According to CapFriendly, Habs are now at $83.77M. If they match the offer, they will be at $89.87. So they'll be over the 10% cushion.

We know Weber will be placed on LTIR (and maybe Byron). But they can't do that before the start of the season. That means that during the off-season, Weber's (and Byron's) cap hits still count.

So we can't match it ?

I guess we have to trade someone before matching it.. if that's what we want.

 

[SOLR]

I think Kotkaniemi has no intention to do that with the Habs. It's a 6.1 + millions QO every year until he is UFA. No thank you.

This creates a bit of a problem with the collective agreement. Will be a way for players to become UFA earlier by enticing teams to sign them for 1-year offer sheet.

For KK, he's burning himself out of 2 organizations at the same time, a weird move.

 

[CH25]

That's what will happen. Unless we find a way to get Eichel. People should stop with freaking Dvorak.

But then here lies the question...how the f*** will it be easier to come with an extension AFTER what is happening right now compared to just come to a contact this summer PRIOR to what is happening right now? JK and his agent knows that if the Habs are not interesting in qualifying him next season, he choose the team he wants to be in. And in the end, if JK wants to go....he won't sign that extension.

So in the end, it could even come to this....Bergevin thinks we can make another great push this year wiht JK and that we will lose him for nothing. Or you trade him and get that return.

Do people not realize how bad Bergevin is looking. He thought he was handcuffing the Canes. He actually gave them a superb contract. And then the Canes are the one who are handcuffing him.

I dont buy this one second. If the Canes were happy with the contract they would have moved on by now and forgotten about it. Unless of course you have ego driven amateurs in management which is a real possibility.

 

[FinnHab]

1st+3rd picks are good return for Kotkaniemi. 6M paycheck to him is beyond lunacy...

 

[Nedved]

That's what will happen. Unless we find a way to get Eichel. People should stop with freaking Dvorak.

But then here lies the question...how the f*** will it be easier to come with an extension AFTER what is happening right now compared to just come to a contact this summer PRIOR to what is happening right now? JK and his agent knows that if the Habs are not interesting in qualifying him next season, he choose the team he wants to be in. And in the end, if JK wants to go....he won't sign that extension.

So in the end, it could even come to this....Bergevin thinks we can make another great push this year wiht JK and that we will lose him for nothing. Or you trade him and get that return.

Do people not realize how bad Bergevin is looking. He thought he was handcuffing the Canes. He actually gave them a superb contract. And then the Canes are the one who are handcuffing him.

as a habs fan this sucks. As my personal beliefs around how MB has treated some young habs players in the past, f*** him.

 

[Agalloch]

There's another thing we need to recognize, it's next year's roster (2022-23) Cap will be at 82.5, we already have 68.4 committed and that's without Suzuki, Romanov, Evans (and Kotkaniemi) signed. And that's with a roster of only 12 players.

So if Kotkaniemi must be qualified for 6m, we're screwed. We will have 7M to sign 10 players including Suzuki.