Bruins Off Season III

[Dr Quincy]

Didn't the B's draft a kid named McAvoy too? I'm an admitted D guy, so it goes without saying that I found that pretty damn sexy I also think you are selling Backes a bit short by categorizing him as just a "3rd line center"?

I thought the B's took Frederic too early, but I have a feeling he's going to look a bit different after a couple of years under Granato in Wisconsin playing a larger offensive role than he was allowed to in the US program. That's my hope anyway.

He's certainly not as good as Will Bitten. : )

 

[DKH]

Pretty low bar if drafting a guy who was supposed to be drafted around that time is considered 'sexy'. It is a pretty lame adjective, but to me, sexy would be moving up in the draft, or making a big trade. Walking up to the podium and drafting a guy, not sexy. Unless you are the girlfriend of that player, I am pretty sure she found it really sexy.

You must have found last years combo big deals very sexy.

 

[chizzler]

What? When did the Bruins move their four 1sts which put them here?

They've done the exact opposite actually; they traded young talent away to acquire ADDITIONAL draft picks. Now they are back stocked full (solid job by Sweeney on that) and are sitting on assets and letting them develop.

They are here because their assets have aged and they didn't replace or add to the defense any real talent.

Either the Bruins need those four firsts (they added three in the last two drafts in Frederic, Zboril and DeBrusk) because the prospect pool isn't as deep as advertised or Sweeney now actually has a poker hand of prospects and talent in the system which would allow him to miss four first rounders (when all is said and done he would be -1 first round draft pick since coming here) and add Hampus Lindholm (oh wait, he was a 6th overall 1st round pick).

So:

OUT:

Lucic
Hamilton
2017 1st
2018 1st
2019 1st
2020 1st

IN:

2015 1st (Jacob Zboril)
2015 1st (Zack Senyshyn)
2016 1st (Trent Frederic)
2012 1st (Hampus Lindholm)

To me, that looks like four 1st's out and four 1st's in plus the additional picks and prospects that came with Lucic and Hamilton trades. The only difference is now the prospect pool is deep in Boston and one of the 1sts in happens to be a proven #1 defensman in the NHL.

I was trying to make a point that the reason for this mess is Chia's lack of drafting. The reason for the empty prospect ranks before Sweeney's heavy drafting. Weather they pan out is another story. They need to draft every year and keep the ball rolling at the draft table. I can see a pick here and there, but you can't go too steep.

 

[Gordoff]

I like the conversation recently and am the one pushing for the offer sheet on Lindholm that would cost the Bruins the four 1sts.

1. Bruins have been threatened twice (Kessel and Hamilton) with offer-sheets that cost them players.
2. If the Bruins prospect pool is as deep as everyone here is telling me, giving up four firsts for a 22 year old #1 Defenseman seems like a reasonable trade. If we were a depleted team like before Sweeney took over I'd be more hesitant but posters like yourself have sold me on the development of these prospects and that the Bruins system is now stocked back full.

to put the 4 first round picks idea in perspective, would you trade:
Pasta, DeBrusk, McAvoy, 2017 1st
for
Lindholm?

That's the most current 4 Bruins first round picks (ie excluding ones they got via trade and excluding 2014 b/c they didn't have a first).

I personally would have a really hard time making that deal and I LOVE Lindholm.

IF the B's were to do this, they can still make trades to acquire other first rounders with the likes of Krejci etc if they end up out of the playoffs again, or even if they make the playoffs there are always other avenues to get second rounders. And if they were to get Lindholm there's a very good chance that their first rounders will be LATE firsts anyway.
Not to cherry pick but with what they have on the farm and with their prowess in drafting in the second round I think we'd be able to survive.

How about any four from this list?

2009 Jordan Caron
2008 Joe Colborne
2007 Zach Hamill
2006 Phil Kessel
2005 Matt Lashoff
2004 none
2003 Mark Stuart
2002 Hannu Toivonen

 

[DKH]

IF the B's were to do this, they can still make trades to acquire other first rounders with the likes of Krejci etc if this end up out of the playoffs again. And if they were to get Lindholm there's a very good chance that their first rounders will be LATE firsts anyway.
Not to cherry pick but with what they have on the farm and with their prowess in drafting in the second round I think we'd be able to survive.

How about any four from this list?

2009 Jordan Caron
2008 Joe Colborne
2007 Zach Hamill
2006 Phil Kessel
2005 Matt Lashoff
2004 none
2003 Mark Stuart
2002 Hannu Toivonen

Couture should have been in 2007 or McDonough or Pacioretty
2009 should have been John Carlson

Those were HF Boards guys this place wanted not me but many here

Kessel
Couture
John Carlson
Caron

To add
7 Voracek
8 Hamill
9 couture

 

[GloryDaze4877]

He's certainly not as good as Will Bitten. : )

Very funny.

Give him a couple of years

 

[Gordoff]

Couture should have been in 2007 or McDonough or Pacioretty
2009 should have been John Carlson

Those were HF Boards guys this place wanted not me but many here

Kessel
Couture
John Carlson
Caron

To add
7 Voracek
8 Hamill
9 couture

You weren't alone brother. Many others including me hated all of them, including Kessel....You're in good company.
IF they had only taken Carlson (for one) things would be so different today.

 

[DKH]

You weren't alone brother. Many others including me hated all of them, including Kessel....You're in good company.
IF they had only taken Carlson (for one) things would be so different today.

My bud Eric who posts here saw Carlson play as a kid and wanted him bad - he nailed it. I wanted Sbisa.

I wanted Voracek but he went the pick before - a lot here did want Couture though. He got mono and it probably is why he went 9th- he was 5 or 6 in some pre draft stuff

I had no idea about Hamill but after fact was surprised with all his issues they took him

 

[JCRO]

My bud Eric who posts here saw Carlson play as a kid and wanted him bad - he nailed it. I wanted Sbisa.

I wanted Voracek but he went the pick before - a lot here did want Couture though. He got mono and it probably is why he went 9th- he was 5 or 6 in some pre draft stuff

I had no idea about Hamill but after fact was surprised with all his issues they took him

The only thing I saw on the kid when the Bruins drafted him was that nasty shootout goal he had for the Silvertips.

 

[Coach Parker]

I was trying to make a point that the reason for this mess is Chia's lack of drafting. The reason for the empty prospect ranks before Sweeney's heavy drafting. Weather they pan out is another story. They need to draft every year and keep the ball rolling at the draft table. I can see a pick here and there, but you can't go too steep.

I see your point and agree with the drafting but given the recent history of the Boston Bruins and drafting, my post was clear that if he was to offer-sheet and walk out with Lindholm in the system he would be back to exactly even steven with 1st round picks.

After all would be said and done, the prospect pool would still be overflowing, Lindholm would be under contract for 7 years, the cap would be under control and the Bruins would be a legitimate playoff team.

In essence, moving Lucic and Hamilton allowed them to acquire the exact pieces to land Lindholm while filling the prospect pool.

 

[Coach Parker]

IF the B's were to do this, they can still make trades to acquire other first rounders with the likes of Krejci etc if they end up out of the playoffs again, or even if they make the playoffs there are always other avenues to get second rounders. And if they were to get Lindholm there's a very good chance that their first rounders will be LATE firsts anyway.
Not to cherry pick but with what they have on the farm and with their prowess in drafting in the second round I think we'd be able to survive.

How about any four from this list?

2009 Jordan Caron
2008 Joe Colborne
2007 Zach Hamill
2006 Phil Kessel
2005 Matt Lashoff
2004 none
2003 Mark Stuart
2002 Hannu Toivonen

Great posts.

Add in one BIG huge difference to the Bruins then and now:

The current Boston Bruins have cap space, a full prospect pool at every position and an opportunity to move picks acquired to obtain a #1 defenseman coming off an ELC and still have everything they have today still in the system.

 

[BruinDust]

Great posts.

Add in one BIG huge difference to the Bruins then and now:

The current Boston Bruins have cap space, a full prospect pool at every position and an opportunity to move picks acquired to obtain a #1 defenseman coming off an ELC and still have everything they have today still in the system.

I like you thoughts Coach but I have to disagree with you here.

If a D-man has established himself as a legit No.1 coming off his ELC, or is very close to being a No.1 (see Lindholm), teams are just going to match. You think if someone had offer-sheeted Doughty, Karlsson, Pietrangelo, etc. coming off their ELC those teams would of taken the four 1sts and gave those guys up?

You can have piles of assets, the odds of obtaining a legit No.1 D-man without drafting and developing him yourself historically is very, very low.

 

[BB88]

Before last season the Panthers made the playoffs once in five years and even picked first overall to get Ekblad

That won't fly here

People are outaged with a team that mid March was in first in division can you imagine 66 points like Florida got

My advice hope for a competitive interesting team thru February and hope some of that class of 2014 and 2015 and maybe even McAvoy can come in around March and prevent a meltdown

If it takes time lets do it right and not live this season like its the last one ever played

I want Sweeney to build this team right, if it takes time then it takes time, if it has to hurt then it hurts, I want to see a Cup.

But how often does rebuild on fly end up successfull?
Sweeney doesn't seem to have a clear direction, I want him to pick one and go with it, committ to it, not this what we have been seeing.

I still think an honest re-tool year would have been better and quicker way to get out of this, instead of chasing desperately playoffs.

 

[bp13]

I want Sweeney to build this team right, if it takes time then it takes time, if it has to hurt then it hurts, I want to see a Cup.

But how often does rebuild on fly end up successfull?
Sweeney doesn't seem to have a clear direction, I want him to pick one and go with it, committ to it, not this what we have been seeing.

I still think an honest re-tool year would have been better and quicker way to get out of this, instead of chasing desperately playoffs.

Your post seems to perfectly describe the situation, IMO. Down deep, I prefer to think Sweeney knows this franchise must rebuild/retool, but the fact this is a business is an impediment to the process. The GM works for the owner, and the owner wants playoffs for profit. Consequently, the GM knows that if he fails to make the playoffs yet again, he may not get to see his rebuild project through to conclusion. So, the GM is forced to walk a fine line.

Given all that I think it's reasonable to defend Sweeney and feel for his position. However, it's also fair to note that the ice underneath him wouldn't be quite so thin if he had done more to push last year's team into the playoffs, or cut bait on Loui to build a better team for this year. He's clearly one of a few key folks on the hook for that. Further, the Backes signing still seems to me to be a potential problem. If it was accompanied by the add of a real dman, it would look like an effort to semi-contend while also stockpiling picks. But without that dman, this team is dead, so why sign a win-now vet to a deal that might haunt you when your roster is finally good again?

Ultimately I like Sweeney and want him to be free to do what's right, but that's not realistic. So ultimately he needs to navigate the situation, and I don't think he's done all that well so far. I think he's underestimated just how bad this defense could look, and I'm fearful that things could really get ugly if Rask gets fed up with it, which would seem consistent with his character. This year could get ugly fast, and I don't see Sweeney doing much about it.

 

[DKH]

I want Sweeney to build this team right, if it takes time then it takes time, if it has to hurt then it hurts, I want to see a Cup.

But how often does rebuild on fly end up successfull?
Sweeney doesn't seem to have a clear direction, I want him to pick one and go with it, committ to it, not this what we have been seeing.

I still think an honest re-tool year would have been better and quicker way to get out of this, instead of chasing desperately playoffs.

Good post

Just can't based on talent and market blow it up

It was an epic fail but only because they were in first in division and second in Conf at 70 games and ahead by 4 & 6 points of eventual Cup finalists

Amazingly disappointing

Matt Kalman recently wrote a great article on how they balance this

I saw the 87 Bruins actually do this mixing both aging vets with an influx youth after two disappointing seasons

If someone is going to hand Sweens a top guy great but I'd just let nature take its course and act prudent

Before you know it you'll look up and see McAvoy Carlo Lauzon....

 

[JCRO]

I want Sweeney to build this team right, if it takes time then it takes time, if it has to hurt then it hurts, I want to see a Cup.

But how often does rebuild on fly end up successfull?
Sweeney doesn't seem to have a clear direction, I want him to pick one and go with it, committ to it, not this what we have been seeing.

I still think an honest re-tool year would have been better and quicker way to get out of this, instead of chasing desperately playoffs.

I feel like there now is a clear direction. Or clear enough... People just don't want to accept it.

 

[bruinmann77]

Don has acquired a bunch of Young Talent both at the forward and Defense and they will be some growing pains but they can be very strong up and down in a few years.
and going to be fun to watch them.

 

[Eddie Munson]

I feel like there now is a clear direction. Or clear enough... People just don't want to accept it.

Agreed. Looking at who the Bruins have drafted is the easiest way to see what they want this team to be. People can moan about the moves they did or didn't make but the first season under Sweeney saw the Bruins restock the prospect pool with good skating, good character players with clear cut roles. It saw Sweeney get out from under a heinous cap situation and gives them flexibility.

I think people are either pissed because the direction the Bruins are going isn't the one they envisioned and I think people are also forgetting that things are likely to get crazy after this year when teams are scrambling to shuffle their rosters and get returns for players they are going to lose to expansion.

Boston has put themselves into a good situation going into the expansion draft. Other teams I think are going to be kicking themselves for being so short sited.

 

[DKH]

Don has acquired a bunch of Young Talent both at the forward and Defense and they will be some growing pains but they can be very strong up and down in a few years.
and going to be fun to watch them.

F- Pastrnak Donato Heinen Bjork Gabreille JFK Sensyshyn DeBrusk Hughes Frederic +

D- Lauzon Carlo Lindgren Zboril Johansen McAvoy

Last 3 drafts

Recent signings/trades - Chiller, vatrano Arnesson OGara Grzelcyk Czarnik Acciari Cehlarik

2014-16 that's 25 prospects right there

 

[Coach Parker]

I like you thoughts Coach but I have to disagree with you here.

If a D-man has established himself as a legit No.1 coming off his ELC, or is very close to being a No.1 (see Lindholm), teams are just going to match. You think if someone had offer-sheeted Doughty, Karlsson, Pietrangelo, etc. coming off their ELC those teams would of taken the four 1sts and gave those guys up?

You can have piles of assets, the odds of obtaining a legit No.1 D-man without drafting and developing him yourself historically is very, very low.

Makes sense.

The problem is that if they are willing to offer him seven years at 7.25 million why haven't they? The Swedish article seemed to imply that he knew they were in a cap crunch but wasn't going to take a discount to stay there and he wanted something long-term.

So that sounds to me like Anaheim is:

1. Trying to move another defenseman but asking too much.
2. Trying to get Lindholm to sign a bridge contract until Bieksa's money is off the books.
3. Only offering him money in the Hamilton range.

If any of these are true then you'd hope that a GM desperate for a #1 D and with four 1st available (only because he moved out assets to acquire those four firsts) would go the offer-sheet route and if Anaheim doesn't match, they keep their Fowler and Vatanen duo, bring in Theodore to play with Bieksa and keep the Bruins four 1sts to continue to be a strong team in the West.

If they match, the pressure is doubled to move Fowler which also works in the Bruins favour.

 

[Coach Parker]

F- Pastrnak Donato Heinen Bjork Gabreille JFK Sensyshyn DeBrusk Hughes Frederic +

D- Lauzon Carlo Lindgren Zboril Johansen McAvoy

Last 3 drafts

Recent signings/trades - Chiller, vatrano Arnesson OGara Grzelcyk Czarnik Acciari Cehlarik

2014-16 that's 25 prospects right there

This hits my point head on once again. If the Bruins didn't have this in the system you don't think of parting with four 1sts but they have essentially added four firsts leading up to this move.

 

[ap3lovr]

As nice as it is to sit and hope that Don can work some magic. I have this unnerving feeling that this is the team we go to war with and I have to say it is very disappointing.

 

[Coach Parker]

As nice as it is to sit and hope that Don can work some magic. I have this unnerving feeling that this is the team we go to war with and I have to say it is very disappointing.

Honestly, I think the same but when I came on here last week the top 8 threads were so downtrodden, pessimistic and rightfully concerned that I figured injecting a little 'fantasy' talk (Fowler, Nash, Lindholm) would start some optimistic conversations, positive analysis of the current prospect system and a little hope!

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Makes sense.

The problem is that if they are willing to offer him seven years at 7.25 million why haven't they? The Swedish article seemed to imply that he knew they were in a cap crunch but wasn't going to take a discount to stay there and he wanted something long-term.

So that sounds to me like Anaheim is:

1. Trying to move another defenseman but asking too much.
2. Trying to get Lindholm to sign a bridge contract until Bieksa's money is off the books.
3. Only offering him money in the Hamilton range.

If any of these are true then you'd hope that a GM desperate for a #1 D and with four 1st available (only because he moved out assets to acquire those four firsts) would go the offer-sheet route and if Anaheim doesn't match, they keep their Fowler and Vatanen duo, bring in Theodore to play with Bieksa and keep the Bruins four 1sts to continue to be a strong team in the West.

If they match, the pressure is doubled to move Fowler which also works in the Bruins favour.

I know it's not worth much, but I'm 100% on board with aggressive Lindholm pursuit. I'd even go eight and a half, if it makes Anaheim double-think a match.

Would love it.

 

[Coach Parker]

I know it's not worth much, but I'm 100% on board with aggressive Lindholm pursuit. I'd even go eight and a half, if it makes Anaheim double-think a match.

Would love it.

We've always been on the same page MMB and this is no different. Looking back, most of us would have offer-sheeted Doughty as well. Hell, Subban at 7 million right now offer-sheeted would have also made sense.

I'd have to look back at Hedman's contract negotiations. Ekblad just signed for 8 years 7.5 AAV. Lindholm should and probably will be using Ekblad as the comparison.

The advantage Anaheim has is having Fowler, Vatanen and Theodore all in the system signed and ready to eat up Lindholm minutes.