Bruins Off Season III

[the overrated]

2) Signing Backes and drafting two guys in the first round wasn't "sexy" enough?

I know your role on the boards is to be the optimist that battles the sky-is-falling pessimists, but I think it's a stretch to call signing a 3rd line center & drafting Trent Frederic as "sexy". Both might end up being good moves, but neither really moves the dial on the sexy scale.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Incredulous, ha ha. Never dude. This is debate and I know you were joking. Just cos you joke, doesn't mean I can't. You're not one of the 'it's funny until I say it isn't funny anymore' types are you Joe? It's hockey man & this is my favorite team. I am underwhelmed, so what? I'll get a bag of Cheetos

No, I just wanted to make sure we were both allowed to joke.

Everyone knows I am funnier than you anyway, that's a given

I am not saying this is you, but I want to be able to enjoy my hockey team in addition to analyzing them. It seems that everyone is so "glass half empty" with every...single..move. And I get the impression that it wouldn't matter if it was Sweeney, Shero, or Bowman pulling the strings, the comments would be the same.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I know your role on the boards is to be the optimist that battles the sky-is-falling pessimists, but I think it's a stretch to call signing a 3rd line center & drafting Trent Frederic as "sexy". Both might end up being good moves, but neither really moves the dial on the sexy scale.

Didn't the B's draft a kid named McAvoy too? I'm an admitted D guy, so it goes without saying that I found that pretty damn sexy I also think you are selling Backes a bit short by categorizing him as just a "3rd line center"?

I thought the B's took Frederic too early, but I have a feeling he's going to look a bit different after a couple of years under Granato in Wisconsin playing a larger offensive role than he was allowed to in the US program. That's my hope anyway.

 

[DKH]

Yes I'd pay a helluva amount for Lindholm, every team needs a defenseman you can build around or you're building a flawed team, Lindholm is a defenseman you can build around and he's 22y, he'd be a perfect fit but not available.
What is the right deal, a deal where the price is low or what?
Young top pairing defenseman aren't really made available, you need to get teams to make them available and the price is going to hurt.

Sweeney went and said he's going to do whatever it takes to add a quality transition defenseman early in the offseason. He hasn't so far, so on that he's failed quite badly.

How many months has Sweeney been on the job

How many defenseman has he drafted

You make it sound easy

Instead of complaining let's get some suggestions - maybe you will hit on something

 

[TMac21]

How many months has Sweeney been on the job

How many defenseman has he drafted

You make it sound easy

Instead of complaining let's get some suggestions - maybe you will hit on something

Just my guess...trade Bergeron, Krejci, Chara, Rask, simple.

 

[BB88]

Do you really think by "whatever it takes" Sweeney meant selling the farm to get it done?

I'm sure if he called Anaheim and offered up his next four 1st rounders for Fowler the Ducks would gladly hand him over. But does that make any sense?

How many months has Sweeney been on the job

How many defenseman has he drafted

You make it sound easy

Instead of complaining let's get some suggestions - maybe you will hit on something

1.5 years.
Hamilton, Jones, Larsson, Subban, Weber have been traded during that time.

Ari and Florida were aggresive on the UFA market, Yandle, Demers, Goli 3 solid options to upgrade the defense.
Those cost at max a 4th round pick and would have improved the defense right away, bringing that puck moving ability he was talking about.

I'm afraid right now he's too confident with his defensive group and overvalues his own players.

 

[tburns21]

1.5 years.
Hamilton, Jones, Larsson, Subban, Weber have been traded during that time.

Ari and Florida were aggresive on the UFA market, Yandle, Demers, Goli 3 solid options to upgrade the defense.
Those cost at max a 4th round pick and would have improved the defense right away, bringing that puck moving ability he was talking about.

I'm afraid right now he's too confident with his defensive group and overvalues his own players.

at this stage i bet the ppl who were saying no to yandle and demers isn't the guy we need are regretting that... i'd much rather see
chara-demers
yandle-k miller
krug-mcquaid

than
chara-kmiller
krug-mcquad
liles-c miller

and yes i'd have no problem moving morrow or c miller in a different deal. i know we'd never have had the money to sign backes but... i dunno i think the defense could be waaay better.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

1.5 years.
Hamilton, Jones, Larsson, Subban, Weber have been traded during that time.

Ari and Florida were aggresive on the UFA market, Yandle, Demers, Goli 3 solid options to upgrade the defense.
Those cost at max a 4th round pick and would have improved the defense right away, bringing that puck moving ability he was talking about.

I'm afraid right now he's too confident with his defensive group and overvalues his own players.

Well it cost them a top 10 pick in Crowse because they needed to free cap space to pay for those guys this year

And a couple of those guys are going to be huge cap drags, and Florida is going to be paying Arizona a first round pi k to take them away

 

[DKH]

Just my guess...trade Bergeron, Krejci, Chara, Rask, simple.

they are transitioning from one of the best teams in hockey from 2009-14.

BB88's beloved Blackhawks will be going through this very soon although they have traded away so many young players (Saad, Shaw, TT) I think they are screwed when they start to sink.

Boston has a very obvious plan- draft and develop defenseman who can move the puck and defend, draft/sign wingers who can score from the dot in (Pasta Sensyshyn DeBrusk Vatrano Heinen etc) and focus on defensively strong centers (JFK Frederic Acciari)

Whether it works or not time will tell but I've seen Kirk write this, Haggs write this, Fluto, Matt Kalman, Mick- I have discussed this with Dom, Joe, Eric and many friends who like myself have been going for 20 or 35 years. They all see the plan is transition from one type of defense to a younger, faster, and great skating defense.

There is a plan. A few folks may not see it but the majority do.

Unfortunately all teams eventually go through this

Boston may be fortunate to not go down in the 60-70 range

I also went back and looked around mid March last year when Boston was sitting at second seed overall in East at 70 games and not a lot of screaming about trading Loui. BB88 seemed a bit quiet that week as well but I could have missed it as I was watching the Sox at the time when looking at old threads

This year with young legs likely being added a long the way if they can be in that 86 point area at 70 they should not run out of gas

 

[DKH]

Well it cost them a top 10 pick in Crowse because they needed to free cap space to pay for those guys this year

And a couple of those guys are going to be huge cap drags, and Florida is going to be paying Arizona a first round pi k to take them away

Thank you JoeIsAStud. Florida looks like they spent their weekly paycheck in a few days.

In fairness they are trying to save that franchise which is why a couple of horrific recent signings and forced to add Crouse to get rid of Bolland

Is Sweeney did these signings and that deal

 

[BB88]

Well it cost them a top 10 pick in Crowse because they needed to free cap space to pay for those guys this year

And a couple of those guys are going to be huge cap drags, and Florida is going to be paying Arizona a first round pi k to take them away

Thank you JoeIsAStud. Florida looks like they spent their weekly paycheck in a few days.

In fairness they are trying to save that franchise which is why a couple of horrific recent signings and forced to add Crouse to get rid of Bolland

Is Sweeney did these signings and that deal

They had the cap space for that even before the Bolland move, they have +9M cap space today.

I'd easily trade this blueline to Floridas without thinking, and that D-group is cheaper than their last years, and they acquired McCann and Mascherin while improving it.

Demers is 28y and signed for 5 more years at 4.5M, yes that's going to be absolutely brutal for them Yandle has been one of the best offensive defenseman in the league, him too is absolutely rubbish.
While Backes, how much will Sweeney pay for Arizona to take that contract?, +Kevan and McQuaid signings are all fantastic.

If Sweeney had an offseason like that I would be a fan of his work..

they are transitioning from one of the best teams in hockey from 2009-14.

BB88's beloved Blackhawks will be going through this very soon although they have traded away so many young players (Saad, Shaw, TT) I think they are screwed when they start to sink.

Boston has a very obvious plan- draft and develop defenseman who can move the puck and defend, draft/sign wingers who can score from the dot in (Pasta Sensyshyn DeBrusk Vatrano Heinen etc) and focus on defensively strong centers (JFK Frederic Acciari)

Whether it works or not time will tell but I've seen Kirk write this, Haggs write this, Fluto, Matt Kalman, Mick- I have discussed this with Dom, Joe, Eric and many friends who like myself have been going for 20 or 35 years. They all see the plan is transition from one type of defense to a younger, faster, and great skating defense.

There is a plan. A few folks may not see it but the majority do.

Unfortunately all teams eventually go through this

Boston may be fortunate to not go down in the 60-70 range

I also went back and looked around mid March last year when Boston was sitting at second seed overall in East at 70 games and not a lot of screaming about trading Loui. BB88 seemed a bit quiet that week as well but I could have missed it as I was watching the Sox at the time when looking at old threads

This year with young legs likely being added a long the way if they can be in that 86 point area at 70 they should not run out of gas

I don't consider the Hawks as a contender today, but I consider them as better than the Bruins.
I said throughout the year last years team was going nowhere and I said it during their 15 game streak against non playoff teams, the problems were easy to see.
Kept saying sell Lou if you're not going to re-sign him.

You're the one who said they are +100 point team, so don't understand why you are throwing hits here.

 

[Coach Parker]

How many months has Sweeney been on the job

How many defenseman has he drafted

You make it sound easy

Instead of complaining let's get some suggestions - maybe you will hit on something

I like the conversation recently and am the one pushing for the offer sheet on Lindholm that would cost the Bruins the four 1sts.

1. Bruins have been threatened twice (Kessel and Hamilton) with offer-sheets that cost them players.
2. If the Bruins prospect pool is as deep as everyone here is telling me, giving up four firsts for a 22 year old #1 Defenseman seems like a reasonable trade. If we were a depleted team like before Sweeney took over I'd be more hesitant but posters like yourself have sold me on the development of these prospects and that the Bruins system is now stocked back full.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

Demers is 28y and signed for 5 more years at 4.5M, yes that's going to be absolutely brutal for them Yandle has been one of the best offensive defenseman in the league, him too is absolutely rubbish.
While Backes, how much will Sweeney pay for Arizona to take that contract?, +Kevan and McQuaid signings are all fantastic.

But Demers is a sold #4 defenseman, I don't want to lock up 5 years at 4.5 million for a guy who is a Andrew Ferrence type. I think they will be looking to unload it, and David Backes is a much better player

McQuaid and Miller are very similarly valued players to me than Demers, Demers is a better skater, McQuaid and Miller better defenders and more physical, and they are getting around half as much money

And yes I like Yandle, but his contract is likely going to be terrible the last 2-3 years

 

[BB88]

But Demers is a sold #4 defenseman, I don't want to lock up 5 years at 4.5 million for a guy who is a Andrew Ferrence type. I think they will be looking to unload it, and David Backes is a much better player

McQuaid and Miller are very similarly valued players to me than Demers, Demers is a better skater, McQuaid and Miller better defenders and more physical, and they are getting around half as much money

And yes I like Yandle, but his contract is likely going to be terrible the last 2-3 years

Oh my.....

Demers is now on the McQuaid level. 4.5M is nothing for top4 defenseman in his prime, that was one of the better value signings this offseason.
Backes contract is going to terrible the last 2-3 years as well.

They are better team today and their core is locked up for 5+ years.

 

[chizzler]

I like the conversation recently and am the one pushing for the offer sheet on Lindholm that would cost the Bruins the four 1sts.

1. Bruins have been threatened twice (Kessel and Hamilton) with offer-sheets that cost them players.
2. If the Bruins prospect pool is as deep as everyone here is telling me, giving up four firsts for a 22 year old #1 Defenseman seems like a reasonable trade. If we were a depleted team like before Sweeney took over I'd be more hesitant but posters like yourself have sold me on the development of these prospects and that the Bruins system is now stocked back full.

You can't go 4 years with out a first round pick. Been there done that. Reason for he state where in.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

I like the conversation recently and am the one pushing for the offer sheet on Lindholm that would cost the Bruins the four 1sts.

1. Bruins have been threatened twice (Kessel and Hamilton) with offer-sheets that cost them players.
2. If the Bruins prospect pool is as deep as everyone here is telling me, giving up four firsts for a 22 year old #1 Defenseman seems like a reasonable trade. If we were a depleted team like before Sweeney took over I'd be more hesitant but posters like yourself have sold me on the development of these prospects and that the Bruins system is now stocked back full.

to put the 4 first round picks idea in perspective, would you trade:
Pasta, DeBrusk, McAvoy, 2017 1st
for
Lindholm?

That's the most current 4 Bruins first round picks (ie excluding ones they got via trade and excluding 2014 b/c they didn't have a first).

I personally would have a really hard time making that deal and I LOVE Lindholm.

 

[finchster]

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The Bruins are going into next year with almost the same roster, but some chairs have been moved around the Titanic.

Backes in - Eriksson out. I think we have a huge downgrade in skill here, but for the sake of argument let's call it a push.

Liles in - Seidenberg out. Liles was bad but Seidenberg was cooked. I guess we went from really bad to just bad. Small upgrade? minor lateral movement for a player with a different skill set?

Moore in. How much gas is left in the tank with this guy at age 36? Oh and I read Sweeney will use him on the power play .

Nash in. Not so bad to get a legitimate 4th liner in.

There are also several other concerns

Chara - father time is real and it showed last season. I still think he is a number one guy only in the strict definition of there are 30 number one guys. I think this year he will really take a tumble and we will understand what it means to not have a #1 defencemen.

Krejci/Krug- both with off-season surgeries, history tells us they won't be coming out of the gate on fire.

We can potentially say Sweeney improved the 4th line, but nothing else.

 

[Estlin]

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The Bruins are going into next year with almost the same roster, but some chairs have been moved around the Titanic.

Backes in - Eriksson out. I think we have a huge downgrade in skill here, but for the sake of argument let's call it a push.

Liles in - Seidenberg out. Liles was bad but Seidenberg was cooked. I guess we went from really bad to just bad. Small upgrade? minor lateral movement for a player with a different skill set?

Moore in. How much gas is left in the tank with this guy at age 36? Oh and I read Sweeney will use him on the power play .

Nash in. Not so bad to get a legitimate 4th liner in.

There are also several other concerns

Chara - father time is real and it showed last season. I still think he is a number one guy only in the strict definition of there are 30 number one guys. I think this year he will really take a tumble and we will understand what it means to not have a #1 defencemen.

Krejci/Krug- both with off-season surgeries, history tells us they won't be coming out of the gate on fire.

We can potentially say Sweeney improved the 4th line, but nothing else.

That is basically it. I think replacing Eriksson with Backes is a downgrade, although I like Backes and think that he's a good player.

 

[the overrated]

Didn't the B's draft a kid named McAvoy too? I'm an admitted D guy, so it goes without saying that I found that pretty damn sexy I also think you are selling Backes a bit short by categorizing him as just a "3rd line center"?

I thought the B's took Frederic too early, but I have a feeling he's going to look a bit different after a couple of years under Granato in Wisconsin playing a larger offensive role than he was allowed to in the US program. That's my hope anyway.

I'm admittedly being obtusely literal with that description of Backes, but with all the drama surrounding Jacobs' comments, and how Backes being here will impact Spooner, I think it's a pretty fair description. Also, the signing coming on the heels of losing Loui makes the signing less sexy.

I won't budge on the Frederic pick's decription. Almost universally panned & questioned, so not glamorous or sexy. It might prove to be a great choice but, right here & right now, not very exciting. Which leaves the McAvoy pick, and it's hard for me to categorize a 1st round pick that might be good as 'sexy' ... Unless we are ready to say that nearly every team (most of the teams that had a 1st round pick) had a sexy off-season.

 

[finchster]

Which leaves the McAvoy pick, and it's hard for me to categorize a 1st round pick that might be good as 'sexy' ... Unless we are ready to say that nearly every team (most of the teams that had a 1st round pick) had a sexy off-season.

Pretty low bar if drafting a guy who was supposed to be drafted around that time is considered 'sexy'. It is a pretty lame adjective, but to me, sexy would be moving up in the draft, or making a big trade. Walking up to the podium and drafting a guy, not sexy. Unless you are the girlfriend of that player, I am pretty sure she found it really sexy.

 

[Coach Parker]

to put the 4 first round picks idea in perspective, would you trade:
Pasta, DeBrusk, McAvoy, 2017 1st
for
Lindholm?

That's the most current 4 Bruins first round picks (ie excluding ones they got via trade and excluding 2014 b/c they didn't have a first).

I personally would have a really hard time making that deal and I LOVE Lindholm.

Yes, I do. A young talented winger with potential and four hopefuls for for a #1 PMD locked down at the age of 22?

One is proven versus the other four that are hopefuls with potential.

Now if those guys were the only ones in the prospect pool, then no BUT all of those guys are Bruins now, and all the other prospects as well which would allow the Bruins to miss out on the next four years of Trent Frederic's, DeBrusk's, Zboril's, and Senyshyn's while continuing to add JFK's, Carlo's, Lindren's and company.

Again, people are really selling the rebuild and the depth that Bruins currently have to fans. They are selling the idea that the Bruins are in the top five now in the NHL for prospects ready to make the next step. If that is the case, you move assets from the future (like future 1sts) and continue to let those players develop in the system while adding one of the best young #1 defensemen in the NHL who is only coming off an ELC.

I also consider this being on the OTHER side of the Hamilton trade but getting someone much better than Hamilton in return.

 

[Coach Parker]

You can't go 4 years with out a first round pick. Been there done that. Reason for he state where in.

What? When did the Bruins move their four 1sts which put them here?

They've done the exact opposite actually; they traded young talent away to acquire ADDITIONAL draft picks. Now they are back stocked full (solid job by Sweeney on that) and are sitting on assets and letting them develop.

They are here because their assets have aged and they didn't replace or add to the defense any real talent.

Either the Bruins need those four firsts (they added three in the last two drafts in Frederic, Zboril and DeBrusk) because the prospect pool isn't as deep as advertised or Sweeney now actually has a poker hand of prospects and talent in the system which would allow him to miss four first rounders (when all is said and done he would be -1 first round draft pick since coming here) and add Hampus Lindholm (oh wait, he was a 6th overall 1st round pick).

So:

OUT:

Lucic
Hamilton
2017 1st
2018 1st
2019 1st
2020 1st

IN:

2015 1st (Jacob Zboril)
2015 1st (Zack Senyshyn)
2016 1st (Trent Frederic)
2012 1st (Hampus Lindholm)

To me, that looks like four 1st's out and four 1st's in plus the additional picks and prospects that came with Lucic and Hamilton trades. The only difference is now the prospect pool is deep in Boston and one of the 1sts in happens to be a proven #1 defensman in the NHL.

 

[Gee Wally]

This lady on Bruins Face-off has an annoying voice.

 

[DKH]

Oh my.....

Demers is now on the McQuaid level. 4.5M is nothing for top4 defenseman in his prime, that was one of the better value signings this offseason.
Backes contract is going to terrible the last 2-3 years as well.

They are better team today and their core is locked up for 5+ years.

Before last season the Panthers made the playoffs once in five years and even picked first overall to get Ekblad

That won't fly here

People are outaged with a team that mid March was in first in division can you imagine 66 points like Florida got

My advice hope for a competitive interesting team thru February and hope some of that class of 2014 and 2015 and maybe even McAvoy can come in around March and prevent a meltdown

If it takes time lets do it right and not live this season like its the last one ever played

 

[DKH]

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The Bruins are going into next year with almost the same roster, but some chairs have been moved around the Titanic.

Backes in - Eriksson out. I think we have a huge downgrade in skill here, but for the sake of argument let's call it a push.

Liles in - Seidenberg out. Liles was bad but Seidenberg was cooked. I guess we went from really bad to just bad. Small upgrade? minor lateral movement for a player with a different skill set?

Moore in. How much gas is left in the tank with this guy at age 36? Oh and I read Sweeney will use him on the power play .

Nash in. Not so bad to get a legitimate 4th liner in.

There are also several other concerns

Chara - father time is real and it showed last season. I still think he is a number one guy only in the strict definition of there are 30 number one guys. I think this year he will really take a tumble and we will understand what it means to not have a #1 defencemen.

Krejci/Krug- both with off-season surgeries, history tells us they won't be coming out of the gate on fire.

We can potentially say Sweeney improved the 4th line, but nothing else.

So we should not watch or care or both

Send Jacobs your resume you sound like the guy to fix it all