Value of: Brett Pesce

[Doug Prishpreed]

Does Carolina always take their contract negotiations until the last minute like this?

 

[Discipline Daddy]

Does Carolina always take their contract negotiations until the last minute like this?

Again, he can't sign with the team until tomorrow at the earliest. It is literally not possible to sign until he is in the last year of his deal.

Who knows how the negotiations are actually going? The Canes want to keep him but it all depends on price. Not too long ago, Tampa Bay went to the last evening before UFA status before signing their #1 center at the time, Stamkos. The $$s they saved probably helped them win two cups.

 

[NotOpie]

Name a defensive defenceman with a year left on his deal..soon to be 30 yr old who has brought back a prospect as good as Kulich

I'm not sure you understand my point. And I may not be in the majority of even Canes fans. My point is, I believe that Pesce brings back a bit of an overpayment, no matter the team. Potential of rising salary cap, a year at a bit over $4 million, and very, very strong defensive numbers are a rare find, especially, as I mentioned, in the cash strapped scenario many teams are facing.

If Pesce gets traded either with an extension or getting an extension soon after the trade, I'm of the mind that he's still a very good defender, at least, up until the last 2 or 3 years of that extension. He may fool everybody and retain his skills longer....but, again, my point is that I believe if Carolina doesn't get the deal they want, they'll be more inclined to use him as an "own rental" as they push for another playoff run.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

No, it's actually a rather good deal. I didn't name the + coming back as part of the deal from Buffalo. No doubt one of their forward prospects.

The whole thread is based on the premise of Pesce being traded

No, it’s definitely a bad proposal for the canes as it stands. Karlsson isn’t a primary need for the canes and we’re giving up a lot here.

You can’t just make a bad proposal and then say “well, I had a + in there and I haven’t even told you what it is”

Must be a really great piece if you couldn’t even be bothered to name what it is.

 

[Grinner]

No, it’s definitely a bad proposal for the canes as it stands. Karlsson isn’t a primary need for the canes and we’re giving up a lot here.

You can’t just make a bad proposal and then say “well, I had a + in there and I haven’t even told you what it is”

Must be a really great piece if you couldn’t even be bothered to name what it is.

Of course it's a good deal. You're really going going to hang your hat on who exactly is the+?
Buffalo's 1st will no doubt be not as good as 2023's 13th over all. Add a recent 2nd rounder to it. Stands to reason thzt the + will be a one of their better prospect's
Frankly you jumped the gun and are looking for anyway to wipe the egg off your face

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Of course it's a good deal. You're really going going to hang your hat on who exactly is the+?
Buffalo's 1st will no doubt be not as good as 2023's 13th over all. Add a recent 2nd rounder to it. Stands to reason thzt the + will be a one of their better prospect's
Frankly you jumped the gun and are looking for anyway to wipe the egg off your face

I have been pretty clear that I am saying this is a bad deal for Carolina. What San Jose are getting in the deal have no effect on that so I’m not sure why you’re coming back to me explaining the Buffalo first rounder etc.

The canes are giving up Pesce, who will be highly sought after, and arguably their best prospect in Morrow for Karlsson with just 30% retention. Karlsson would be a luxury- he’s not a need for the canes and certainly not the player they’re going to send two of their best available trade chips out for. If you can’t understand the lack of a fit here then I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[Grinner]

I have been pretty clear that I am saying this is a bad deal for Carolina. What San Jose are getting in the deal have no effect on that so I’m not sure why you’re coming back to me explaining the Buffalo first rounder etc.

The canes are giving up Pesce, who will be highly sought after, and arguably their best prospect in Morrow for Karlsson with just 30% retention. Karlsson would be a luxury- he’s not a need for the canes and certainly not the player they’re going to send two of their best available trade chips out for. If you can’t understand the lack of a fit here then I don’t know what to tell you.

Luxury? Who you got on thr back end that's comparable?
Only 30% that ntings his salary down about 8 million ( yes I'm rounding) How much will Pesce's new contract pay him per year? 6.5? 7.,5? Oh no your getting the better player for not much more coin.
As far as the + goes. I'm sure a Pesce trade to Buffalo had been thoroughly discussed and you no doubt have a good picture as to what they have

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Luxury? Who you got on thr back end that's comparable?
Only 30% that ntings his salary down about 8 million ( yes I'm rounding) How much will Pesce's new contract pay him per year? 6.5? 7.,5? Oh no your getting the better player for not much more coin.
As far as the + goes. I'm sure a Pesce trade to Buffalo had been thoroughly discussed and you no doubt have a good picture as to what they have

I never said that they have a comparable. Not a whole lot of teams have someone who compares to EK

The point that you seem to be having a really hard time understanding is that he does not represent a major need for the canes so it does not make sense to trade their best trade chips for him as opposed to,say, a goal scoring forward or a strong 2c to push Kotkaniemi into the 3c position.

The canes already have a great defence and get a lot of scoring from the back end so that is why Karlsson would be a luxury to them. Do you get it now?

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

If Pesce comes with 8x$6.5, Sabres offer Olofsson at half retention ($2.375) & Ostlund & Rosen. How close is that and what other team beats that offer? I think it's too much personally as a Sabres fan but I won't break things if that works.

If one of Benson/Krebs/Savoie/Kulich/Quinn/Peterka have to be a part of the trade then I would prefer to look elsewhere for a Power partner.

Let me get this straight. So Carolina gets the equivalent of two first-round picks (mid-range) and a second or third (because that's what Olofsson might be worth with half retention for a Pesce contract that is just okay at $6.5 M but comes with an ugly eight-year term that takes him to 37. Just a slight overpay. LOL. Sure Carolina gets more than that. Go try

Luxury? Who you got on thr back end that's comparable?
Only 30% that ntings his salary down about 8 million ( yes I'm rounding) How much will Pesce's new contract pay him per year? 6.5? 7.,5? Oh no your getting the better player for not much more coin.
As far as the + goes. I'm sure a Pesce trade to Buffalo had been thoroughly discussed and you no doubt have a good picture as to what they have

Pesce is not in the same league as a healthy Karlsson.

 

[Grinner]

I never said that they have a comparable. Not a whole lot of teams have someone who compares to EK

The point that you seem to be having a really hard time understanding is that he does not represent a major need for the canes so it does not make sense to trade their best trade chips for him as opposed to,say, a goal scoring forward or a strong 2c to push Kotkaniemi into the 3c position.

The canes already have a great defence and get a lot of scoring from the back end so that is why Karlsson would be a luxury to them. Do you get it now?

Who do you have that plays his role?
Best chips? Morrow isn't your top defensive prospect. Is he going to Thune you like he fid to the Ducks? Didn't see an opening do asked to be traded? Morrow is returning to school is he not?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Again, he can't sign with the team until tomorrow at the earliest. It is literally not possible to sign until he is in the last year of his deal.

Who knows how the negotiations are actually going? The Canes want to keep him but it all depends on price. Not too long ago, Tampa Bay went to the last evening before UFA status before signing their #1 center at the time, Stamkos. The $$s they saved probably helped them win two cups.

Sorry, I have no idea how the contract stuff works. You could have stopped after you first sentence since it means my question is completely moot.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Who do you have that plays his role?
Best chips? Morrow isn't your top defensive prospect. Is he going to Thune you like he fid to the Ducks? Didn't see an opening do asked to be traded? Morrow is returning to school is he not?

No one, but as I just said the canes defence is fine as-is and Karlsson would be a luxury addition to what is already recognized as one of the best blue lines in the league. They just led the league in goalscoring by d this past season.

I said Morrow is arguably our best prospect. It’s close. Some may prefer Nikishin and some may prefer Morrow. If anything, he’s our second best prospect so my statement still stands that he’s one of our best trade chips. He is going back to school but that’s not surprising as the canes suddenly found themselves without an ahl affiliate very late in the season. They still have 2 more years to sign him. This certainly doesn’t affect his value in any way right now.

This just isn’t a good fit for the canes.

 

[Grinner]

No one, but as I just said the canes defence is fine as-is and Karlsson would be a luxury addition to what is already recognized as one of the best blue lines in the league. They just led the league in goalscoring by d this past season.

I said Morrow is arguably our best prospect. It’s close. Some may prefer Nikishin and some may prefer Morrow. If anything, he’s our second best prospect so my statement still stands that he’s one of our best trade chips. He is going back to school but that’s not surprising as the canes suddenly found themselves without an ahl affiliate very late in the season. They still have 2 more years to sign him. This certainly doesn’t affect his value in any way right now.

This just isn’t a good fit for the canes.

That's fine. Your blue line outside of a very old Burns has plenty if defensive defenseman.
If you lose Pesce, I would think the Canes would be thrilled to add a talent like Karlsson to help get over the play off hump

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

That's fine. Your blue line outside of a very old Burns has plenty if defensive defenseman.
If you lose Pesce, I would think the Canes would be thrilled to add a talent like Karlsson to help get over the play off hump

Actually, it’s pretty much evenly split between offensive and defensive minded guys. Canes are bringing back TDA who has already shown he can be a 50 pt dman in their system and it didn’t cost them anything to re-acquire him at 50% retention. Karlsson costs a lot more (obviously a better player) but with multiple years remaining that makes things difficult for the canes in the near future when a lot of other key guys are coming up for new contracts. They have a chance to go all-in this season but management has said they will look at guys with expiring deals to give them flexibility in summer of ‘24.

Their bigger need is a goalscoring forward and that’s where they will use their best trade chips. Morrow was rumoured to be part of their offer for Meier, for example.

 

[TheNeutralZone]

Their bigger need is a goalscoring forward and that’s where they will use their best trade chips. Morrow was rumoured to be part of their offer for Meier, for example.

Have you heard anything about the Canes being in on Toffoli?

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Have you heard anything about the Canes being in on Toffoli?

Y’all keep getting the jump on us

 

[Budz]

A deal featuring Pesce and Nylander just makes too much sense.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

A deal featuring Pesce and Nylander just makes too much sense.

Does Carolina really have space for Nylander and the exten$ion he wants?

 

[Beerz]

I'm not sure you understand my point. And I may not be in the majority of even Canes fans. My point is, I believe that Pesce brings back a bit of an overpayment, no matter the team. Potential of rising salary cap, a year at a bit over $4 million, and very, very strong defensive numbers are a rare find, especially, as I mentioned, in the cash strapped scenario many teams are facing.

If Pesce gets traded either with an extension or getting an extension soon after the trade, I'm of the mind that he's still a very good defender, at least, up until the last 2 or 3 years of that extension. He may fool everybody and retain his skills longer....but, again, my point is that I believe if Carolina doesn't get the deal they want, they'll be more inclined to use him as an "own rental" as they push for another playoff run.

That may happen but that's not what is being reported and not typically what Canes have done in past

 

[Budz]

Does Carolina really have space for Nylander and the exten$ion he wants?

A quick look at CF confirms yes.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Does Carolina really have space for Nylander and the exten$ion he wants?

The pursuits of Eichel, Tkachuk and Meier point to a big contract working within their core cap structure. Necas gets pushed out long-term in that hypothetical, probably. Not advocating for Nylander, for that reason.

Pesce’s future is cloudy not because they can’t afford a $6 mil+ defenseman, but concerns about how he ages relative to his contract; the team has been unusually conservative thus far with the late 20s/early 30s long-term deals..

 

[Rowley Birkin]

@Beerz

As is normally the case - the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

They certainly don't have to trade him away for pennies on the dollar.

Likewise i don't expect him to bring back an overpayment - although what constitutes an overpayment is open to debate - unless multiple buyers enter a bidding war.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

A quick look at CF confirms yes.

You can’t just look at the current cap - I’m wondering about if they can fit a long term deal after accounting for players who need contracts over the next few years.

As is normally the case - the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

They certainly don't have to trade him away for pennies on the dollar.

Likewise i don't expect him to bring back an overpayment - although what constitutes an overpayment is open to debate - unless multiple buyers enter a bidding war.

Huh? What does this have to do with my post about Nylander and long term cap space? I think you replied to they wrong post.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Huh? What does this have to do with my post about Nylander and long term cap space? I think you replied to they wrong post.

That's exactly what I did - apologies.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The pursuits of Eichel, Tkachuk and Meier point to a big contract working within their core cap structure. Necas gets pushed out long-term in that hypothetical, probably. Not advocating for Nylander, for that reason.

Pesce’s future is cloudy not because they can’t afford a $6 mil+ defenseman, but concerns about how he ages relative to his contract; the team has been unusually conservative thus far with the late 20s/early 30s long-term deals..

I’m not sure how serious they’ve been in these pursuits since they’re always out before the real players start talking details.

But yeah, I think that would be the idea - Nylander would be a Necas upgrade in the medium term and that works fine. You can just trade Necas for more picks and’/or prospects when the time comes.