Bratt & J. Hughes or B.Tkachuk & Stutzle?

[Silky Johnson]

Stutzle got 4 minutes a night on the PP in his D+3.
Jack got 3 minutes a night on the PP in his D+3.

Jack produced at a much higher rate on the PP
View attachment 901014
Jack produced at a much higher rate EV strength
View attachment 901013

You are giving Stutzle credit for the fact that he got an extra minute per game on the power play and an extra minute per game even strength lmao.

More ice time does not make a player better.

Real production >> spreadsheet production.

 

[Golden_Jet]

A) I literally used Bratt's numbers from that same age as a comparison
B) I have consistently acknowledged that Stutzle's age makes him more valuable than bratt. He has not been better (again, positional value is not considered in this), but likely will be.
C) I compare their recent results because we are talking about the players TODAY.

Still dodging.
How can you have 2-3 strong years behind you at 20/21,

 

[Wierzbowski426]

Lmao referencing wiki hockey stats.
I checked 3 hockey sites all one inch difference and 22 lbs heavier and a faster skater.

This is silly, there are plenty of arguments you can make about why you like Stutzle more. You dont need to act like Stutzle is 6'6 250 and Jack is a midget with anorexia.

EDIT

Faster skater? Bet.

 

[dgibb10]

Still dodging.
How can you have 2-3 strong years behind you at 20/21,

Jack Hughes did it.

Here are all age 21 or younger seasons since 07-08. Some guys are just that good

 

[Golden_Jet]

This is silly, there are plenty of arguments you can make about why you like Stutzle more. You dont need to act like Stutzle is 6'6 250 and Jack is a midget with anorexia.

EDIT

Faster skater? Bet.

I was laughing at using wiki, which you were wrong about, nothing more.

Sure I’ll take the bet, since I already posted in here the results from nhl edge.
Faster, Tim 95th percentile vs 88th percentile for Jack, and a lot more bursts over 20mph than Jack. What do you owe me?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Jack Hughes did it.

Here are all age 21 or younger seasons since 07-08. Some guys are just that good

View attachment 901022

Now do actual results not pace and per/60
for those 2, Tim wins.

Still dodging original question lmao.

Here is what started it, it was a discussion on Bratt and Tim, NOT JACK, and you were comparing Bratts last 3 years not first 3 years.
Yet somehow you’ve dodged and moved the goalposts again. Stop being obtuse and dodging and weaving, but at least your good at it.

If it was 2 or 3 very strong years (they're all strong but I assume you know what I mean by this), followed by an injured year, I'd be much more forgiving.

Bratt has done it 3 years straight (first is All situations, second EV)
View attachment 900975
View attachment 900976

 

[Silky Johnson]

Wikipedia has them at a 1 inch height difference and 15 pound difference weight wise. Size difference is being blown out of proportion imo.

Incorrect. 3cm (1.3 inches) and 22 lbs, which is what Wikipedia and the NHL has their difference at makes one of them an average sized NHL centre and the other one of the smallest NHL centers.

If you have ever seen them it is very clear that Tim has a much bigger frame and ultimately plays around 210-215 lbs. Jack Hughes has a very small frame.

 

[Silky Johnson]

“Just a PPG guy” lol

He put up 1.19ppg, higher than Stutzle’s big breakout year, on a bum shoulder. Now you all want to whine about how hurt Stutzle was putting up a sub-ppg season. Comical.

Production dropped after he hurt his should to a PPG.

I was actually making the point that his numbers pre injury were better than his full season. He did keep up to and exceed his D+4 season developmentally.

I like Hughes and Stutzle and have said that many times in this thread. I think Hughes will have a slightly higher peak and Stutzle will have a better career.

Not being able to shoot will make it hard to score - that's not whining.

But you be you.

 

[dgibb10]

Now do actual results not pace and per/60
for those 2, Tim wins.

Still dodging original question lmao.

Here is what started it, it was a discussion on Bratt and Tim, NOT JACK, and you were comparing Bratts last 3 years not first 3 years.
Yet somehow you’ve dodged and moved the goalposts again. Stop being obtuse and dodging and weaving, but at least your good at it.

If it was 2 or 3 very strong years (they're all strong but I assume you know what I mean by this), followed by an injured year, I'd be much more forgiving.

Bratt has done it 3 years straight (first is All situations, second EV)
View attachment 900975
View attachment 900976

And once again, I have stutzle over bratt based on age and positional value long term. I also have him over Tkachuk, as I have stated here.

I expect him to develop further.

I don't have him over Hischier, and he is not close to Jack.

When he shows me a second season at a high level, I will shoot him up my rankings.

If you want me to move him above nico despite nico being better every single year, that is something I will not do until he SHOWS me.



Your argument is that Tim Stutzle has played more.

My counter is that, in order to make up the difference between Stutzle and Jacks 20-21 seasons (jack played through injury his age 20 season btw).

You need 5 points, and -12 goals.

You get 720 minutes of ice time to do that (with top 6 talent around), including 160 minutes on the power play (with PP1 talent around).

You could stick ECHLers out there for the missing minutes and they'd be able to bridge that gap.

 

[dgibb10]

Now do actual results not pace and per/60
for those 2, Tim wins.

Still dodging original question lmao.

Here is what started it, it was a discussion on Bratt and Tim, NOT JACK, and you were comparing Bratts last 3 years not first 3 years.
Yet somehow you’ve dodged and moved the goalposts again. Stop being obtuse and dodging and weaving, but at least your good at it.

If it was 2 or 3 very strong years (they're all strong but I assume you know what I mean by this), followed by an injured year, I'd be much more forgiving.

Bratt has done it 3 years straight (first is All situations, second EV)
View attachment 900975
View attachment 900976

Anyways here is a very simple question.

You have a power play, who would you rather send onto the ice. Jack Hughes or Tim Stutzle?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Anyways here is a very simple question.

You have a power play, who would you rather send onto the ice. Jack Hughes or Tim Stutzle?

I’m still waiting for this answer dodge guy.
If it was 2 or 3 very strong years….

I said how does he do that at 20/21?
Plus it was 41 points in D+3 year not 12 for Jack.

And why you compared Tim’s first 3 years with Bratts last 3 years.?, other than being disengenuous

I’m done until then.

 

[Xirik]

Thus ends the straw pulling to argue against something the poll already decided.

 

[dgibb10]

I’m still waiting for this answer dodge guy.
If it was 2 or 3 very strong years….

I said how does he do that at 20/21?
Plus it was 41 points in D+3 year not 12 for Jack.

And why you compared Tim’s first 3 years with Bratts last 3 years.?, other than being disengenuous

I’m done until then.

Yes. It takes more than 1 high level year for me to anoint a player. Especially if they have a significantly down year the following year for whatever reason. Stutzle is in virtually the same spot I had him last year, except now he's a year further along the development curve.

Tim Stutzle does not have 2 or 3 very strong years. Jack needed the second strong year to be legit. Bratt needed the second year in 22-23 to show he had taken that next step. Nico needed that second strong year in 22-23 for me to be confident he'd taken that next step in terms of play driving and 5v5 production. Meier needed that 2nd/3rd strong year in 22-23 to be confident the down year in 20-21 was just a blip. Tkachuk needed that second strong year in 22-23. Matthew Tkachuk needed that second superstar year in 22-23 to really take that next step. A guy like Tage thompson was looking for that this past year, didn't live up to it. Now he, like stutzle needs another one to prove it.

Wdym Tim's first 3 years vs bratt's first 3 years? I have compared both of them in the past 2 years, both in the most recent 3 years. and I compared both of them from ages 20-21. What other years would you like me to use for Stutzle? The stats from 2026 that don't exist yet? At no point have I used stutzle's rookie year in any comparisons.

It is possible to have multiple strong years at a young age. Jack is 8 months older than tim and has 3 elite years under his belt. It is unfortunate that Tim wasn't able to show his 22-23 season was not a fluke bc he got hurt. He will have that chance this year, and if he does have another great year, he will get his flowers.

Until then.

He was worse than Jack and Nico in 22-23, he was worse than Jack and Nico in 23-24. If he is better than them this upcoming year, he will get his flowers.

 

[ijuka]

Real production >> spreadsheet production.

Actually, spreadsheet production > real production, at least if the purpose is to predict future results(which is a pretty strong measure of how good a player should be considered to be).

 

[dgibb10]

Actually, spreadsheet production > real production, at least if the purpose is to predict future results(which is a pretty strong measure of how good a player should be considered to be).

No no no.

Tim Stutzle getting 11 PP goals 48 PP points in 562 minutes in his D+3 and D+4
is better than
Jack Hughes getting 16 PP goals and 45 PP points in 383 minutes in his D+3 and D+4

 

[Hisch13r]

Bratt and Jack are the 2 best players in the poll.

 

[albator71]

Hughes + Bratt 640/777 0,82ppg

Stutzle + Tkachuk 596/725 0.82ppg

I would argue that Brady is the more complete player of the bunch. You can't go wrong with either duo to be honest

Personally I would go with Stutzle and Tkachuk

 

[dgibb10]

Hughes + Bratt 640/777 0,82ppg

Stutzle + Tkachuk 596/725 0.82ppg

I would argue that Brady is the more complete player of the bunch. You can't go wrong with either duo to be honest

Personally I would go with Stutzle and Tkachuk

Last 3 years:

Jack+Bratt: 458/429: 1.07 ppg
Tkachuk+Stutzle: 442/474: 0.93 ppg

 

[NyQuil]

Thus ends the straw pulling to argue against something the poll already decided.

I enjoyed it when you liked the post in this thread that suggested that polls are just a popularity contest.

Bratt & J. Hughes or B.Tkachuk & Stutzle?

Who would you take?

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Golden_Jet]

I enjoyed it when you liked the post in this thread that suggested that polls are just a popularity contest.

Bratt & J. Hughes or B.Tkachuk & Stutzle?

Who would you take?

forums.hfboards.com

lol nice zinger

 

[Xirik]

I enjoyed it when you liked the post in this thread that suggested that polls are just a popularity contest.

Bratt & J. Hughes or B.Tkachuk & Stutzle?

Who would you take?

forums.hfboards.com

Bratt against Tkachuk would definitely be a popularity contest, Tkachuk has name recognition, plays for a Canadian team, and has a star brother. oh and was a top 10 draft pick

Meanwhile this forum is full of "hey this Bratt guy is good" and "who's this Bratt guy".


This poll meanwhile Has Jack Hughes who's a well known superstar, 1st OV draft pick and is the best player out all four players.

Apples and Oranges my guy.

Good try though.

lol nice zinger

Oh your back, thought you said you were done after you failed to answer Gib's questions. Now that you flip flopped do you feel like answering them?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Bratt against Tkachuk would definitely be a popularity contest, Tkachuk has name recognition, plays for a Canadian team, and has a star brother. oh and was a top 10 draft pick

Meanwhile this forum is full of "hey this Bratt guy is good" and "who's this Bratt guy".


This poll meanwhile Has Jack Hughes who's a well known superstar, 1st OV draft pick and is the best player out all four players.

Apples and Oranges my guy.

Good try though.



Oh your back, thought you said you were done after you failed to answer Gib's questions. Now that you flip flopped do you feel like answering them?

I haven’t responded back to poster, in this thread, and said I wouldn’t until he answered the questions he contstantly dodges.
I responded to a poster that caught you doing the opposite of what you said.
which was hilarious and a great zinger.

You - polls don’t mean anything, then later the polls have spoken. 59/40 split

 

[NyQuil]

Bratt against Tkachuk would definitely be a popularity contest, Tkachuk has name recognition, plays for a Canadian team, and has a star brother. oh and was a top 10 draft pick

Meanwhile this forum is full of "hey this Bratt guy is good" and "who's this Bratt guy".


This poll meanwhile Has Jack Hughes who's a well known superstar, 1st OV draft pick and is the best player out all four players.

Apples and Oranges my guy.

Good try though

It is apples and oranges.

It’s a popularity contest if the Senators players win, but it’s an objective result of deep analysis if your guys win.

Makes sense.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Bratt against Tkachuk would definitely be a popularity contest, Tkachuk has name recognition, plays for a Canadian team, and has a star brother. oh and was a top 10 draft pick

Meanwhile this forum is full of "hey this Bratt guy is good" and "who's this Bratt guy".


This poll meanwhile Has Jack Hughes who's a well known superstar, 1st OV draft pick and is the best player out all four players.

Apples and Oranges my guy.

Good try though.

In no universe would anyone take Bratt over Tkachuk. That has to be the weirdest take I’ve seen on HF boards in 2024

 

[Xirik]

In no universe would anyone take Bratt over Tkachuk. That has to be the weirdest take I’ve seen on HF boards in 2024

Did I say any different?


Also This coming from a guy who still thinks Josh Anderson is a good player and posts disparaging comments and generally talks about the Habs in the Mitchkov prospect thread because his team didn't pick him and feels the need to denigrate the player because the recent player his team drafted is the same nationality.