Player Discussion Braden Schneider

[will1066]

May I ask who else Harpur has played with to generate those numbers away from Schneider? It's an awfully small sample too, about 3.5 minutes per game?

My guess is those two games where we ran 4 dmen with Lindgren hurt, Miller suspended and Schneider sent down to make cap space. Harpur with Trouba and Mikkola with Fox, iirc.

 

[Raspewtin]

The Kids are playing well, so now it's time to turn our guns on another 21 year old. Never change HFNYR

lol i turned on schneider his 10th NHL game

dude f***ing sucks and unlike laf/kakko when theyre in rough stretches, schneider's rough stretch (his whole career) can cost you games and series.

 

[Machinehead]

Kakko's bad stretches are just doing f*** all on the scoreboard, but the last time he wasn't an NHL player was 2019.

The kids, at their absolute worst, are serviceable 4th liners who can eat damage-free NHL minutes, just without scoring.

I'm afraid to have Schneider on the ice at all against good competition.

 

[will1066]

If we had any form of structure it would benefit him on breakouts, as it would all defensemen.

I mean it's as bad as you need to be a Gigabrain like Fox to compute your way out or a Giga-athlete like KAM to skate your way out.

THAT IS NOT A FUNCTIONAL SYSTEM. It's built on individual efforts that are the exceptions, not the rule.

We need an overhaul in the summer. Both assistants need more help or to be replaced

This is partly true because I see him making lots of unforced errors. He passes to teammates who are already covered even when he himself is not under pressure. He gets rid of it quickly like he doesn't want to carry it, aside from the occasional ambitious end to end rush, and I rarely see him use the reverse play that the other two D pairs employ.

 

[McRanger92]

lol i turned on schneider his 10th NHL game

dude f***ing sucks and unlike laf/kakko when theyre in rough stretches, schneider's rough stretch (his whole career) can cost you games and series.

He was perfectly fine in the playoffs last year. Has Schneider cost us games this year? Enough with the hyperbole.

We're also 5 games from the playoffs and its not like there's a better alternative. Just teeing up another of our young players as a scapegoat in advance, which is consistent behavior around these parts

 

[Raspewtin]

He was perfectly fine in the playoffs last year. Has Schneider cost us games this year? Enough with the hyperbole.

We're also 5 games from the playoffs and its not like there's a better alternative. Just teeing up another of our young players as a scapegoat in advance, which is consistent behavior around these parts

yeah that's kind of the whole point we're entering the playoffs with a giant net negative on defense and Drury believed in him enough to not have a safety net or upgrade.

 

[McRanger92]

The other kids are at least good at some things.

I have yet to see anybody defend Schneider without bringing up age and only age.

That was fine last year. The team traded for Kane and Tarasenko and are clearly in a Hail Mary for the Cup. If he's not good enough to be in the lineup now, then he's not good enough.

Hits, blocks shots, doesn't take penalties (I'm sure you'll tell me none of that matters because of chart of some kind). He's been carrying around terrible partners since the first game of his career and people are shocked he doesnt move the puck well. He is very clearly not hurting us to any significant extent considering we've been one of the best teams in the league since December. Another guy who is going to be just fine with the smallest amount of patience.

 

[McRanger92]

yeah that's kind of the whole point we're entering the playoffs with a giant net negative on defense and Drury believed in him enough to not have a safety net or upgrade.

The net negative is Harpur and I agree that Drury shouldve traded for another defenseman. I was one of the most vocal on the board regarding this as we got to the deadline. If Mikkola-Schneider were paired together this whole time as intended, it would be a non-issue. And again with the hyperbole; was Schneider a "giant net negative" last year?

 

[17futurecap]

Just watch the Devils game last week, Lindy Ruff was salivating every time he was put out there, and the Devils had last change.

This was the first period.

 

[McRanger92]

Just watch the Devils game last week, Lindy Ruff was salivating every time he was put out there, and the Devils had last change.

This was the first period.

View attachment 681412

Schneider is the only guy of the 5 who can play defense in his own zone without falling down.

 

[Raspewtin]

Hits, blocks shots, doesn't take penalties (I'm sure you'll tell me none of that matters because of chart of some kind). He's been carrying around terrible partners since the first game of his career and people are shocked he doesnt move the puck well. He is very clearly not hurting us to any significant extent considering we've been one of the best teams in the league since December. Another guy who is going to be just fine with the smallest amount of patience.

he can't carry the f***in waterboy lol what games are you watching?!

Just watch the Devils game last week, Lindy Ruff was salivating every time he was put out there, and the Devils had last change.

This was the first period.

View attachment 681412

yeah but he's young and, uh, hits some times!

 

[Machinehead]

Hits, blocks shots, doesn't take penalties (I'm sure you'll tell me none of that matters because of chart of some kind). He's been carrying around terrible partners since the first game of his career and people are shocked he doesnt move the puck well. He is very clearly not hurting us to any significant extent considering we've been one of the best teams in the league since December. Another guy who is going to be just fine with the smallest amount of patience.

I mean, yeah.

Hits and blocked shots don't matter when the other team is having a field day. I didn't pull these charts out of my left nostril; they're based on shots and goals. This was explained like ten years ago and every year since, and obviously you just don't want to hear it if you're continuing to make comments like "it's some chart."

Yes, he's excellent at not taking penalties and the fake charts I drew myself based on a dream I had confirm that. Granted, with his "gap control," I don't think he gets close enough to opponents to take a penalty.

We're not really one of the best teams in the league. If you don't want to believe SomeChart®, five teams have more points than us including our first round opponent. We're probably a second tier contender that could go on a run, but not a favorite, like we were last year. We're very, very, very far from flaws with the team being "we're so good this isn't hurting us." We're not that team. Sorry. We need 18 effective players.

If you think we're good enough to win the Cup at 85-90% and be patient with development projects at the same time, then you're overrating this team. This is exactly the thing that might hurt us. Schneider is a massive video game glowing spot in a 7 game series.

 

[McRanger92]

I mean, yeah.

Hits and blocked shots don't matter when the other team is having a field day. I didn't pull these charts out of my left nostril; they're based on shots and goals. This was explained like ten years ago and every year since, and obviously you just don't want to hear it if you're continuing to make comments like "it's some chart."

Yes, he's excellent at not taking penalties and the fake charts I drew myself based on a dream I had confirm that. Granted, with his "gap control," I don't think he gets close enough to opponents to take a penalty.

We're not really one of the best teams in the league. If you don't want to believe SomeChart®, five teams have more points than us including our first round opponent. We're probably a second tier contender that could go on a run, but not a favorite, like we were last year. We're very, very, very far from flaws with the team being "we're so good this isn't hurting us." We're not that team. Sorry. We need 18 effective players.

If you think we're good enough to win the Cup at 85-90% and be patient with development projects at the same time, then you're overrating this team. This is exactly the thing that might hurt us. Schneider is a massive video game glowing spot in a 7 game series.

I think I struck a nerve with the chart comment haha. And I'm not even sure what the complaint is on Schneider, Should he be replaced before the playoffs? With who? Did he effect the outcome of any of our 3 7 game series last year in a meaningful way?

I know I'm not allowed to say that he's young because for ~reasons~, but I wasn't expecting a second year defenseman, who was rushed to the NHL out of necessity, to work miracles playing with Patrik Nemeth, off-hand Justin Braun and Ben Harpur his entire Rangers career. Again, it all screams of just finding the latest scapegoat. If the Rangers lose in the playoffs it's going to have very little to do with Schneider.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I don't do fancy stats but it seems like Miller gives the puck up and makes poor decisions way more than Schneider does. Maybe it's all in my head, maybe it's because Miller flashes more offensive upside or will take the puck coast to coast once in a while and that's enough for people, I don't know. But I do know I yell at the TV more when Miller is on the ice than when Schneider is.

 

[Machinehead]

I think I struck a nerve with the chart comment haha.

Because it's just not productive.

You can not like what it says to your heart's content but it's real. It's based on what happened on the ice and you shouldn't be dismissive when it's important to people.

And I'm not even sure what the complaint is on Schneider, Should he be replaced before the playoffs? With who? Did he effect the outcome of any of our 3 7 game series last year in a meaningful way?

I think there's a valid argument to be made that not much could have been done, but I think it's time to explore in the summer if this is the penciled-in #3 RD we're going with.

His pair almost singlehandedly lost the Pittsburgh series and we just pretended it was all on Nemeth like we're pretending it's all on Harpur. It's ok to scapegoat if the guy's not 21. So, yes, it affected us.

I know I'm not allowed to say that he's young because for ~reasons~, but I wasn't expecting a second year defenseman, who was rushed to the NHL out of necessity, to work miracles playing with Patrik Nemeth, off-hand Justin Braun and Ben Harpur his entire Rangers career.

The reason I talk about the "young" thing is because it's literally the only defense people have for him. You can't tell me what he does well besides hit and be 21. That's a bad sign.

Again, it all screams of just finding the latest scapegoat. If the Rangers lose in the playoffs it's going to have very little to do with Schneider.

You're seriously overlooking the effects bad players have on playoff aspirations. Everything in the playoffs is marginal.

Was everyone good against Tampa? No. Were they probably better than us? Yes.

It doesn't change the fact that we probably have a 3-2 lead if you replace Kevin Rooney with an NHL player.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't do fancy stats but it seems like Miller gives the puck up and makes poor decisions way more than Schneider does. Maybe it's all in my head, maybe it's because Miller flashes more offensive upside or will take the puck coast to coast once in a while and that's enough for people, I don't know. But I do know I yell at the TV more when Miller is on the ice than when Schneider is.

Of course Miller gives the puck up more. The Rangers never have it when Schneider is out there.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Of course Miller gives the puck up more. The Rangers never have it when Schneider is out there.

Again, I don't see the catastrophe that you guys do. Not saying you're wrong but it seems odd to say he's the worst defenseman in the NHL.

 

[Machinehead]

Again, I don't see the catastrophe that you guys do. Not saying you're wrong but it seems odd to say he's the worst defenseman in the NHL.

You're looking for catastrophic errors. They rarely happen at this level and are a terrible way to evaluate defense.

As I said about him not taking penalties, he doesn't keep up with the play enough to even make huge errors.

 

[will1066]

Why is it that a golden boy can carry his sucky partner to success/greatness, but when said golden boy struggles it's all about the sucky partner who's dragging him down?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

You're looking for catastrophic errors. They rarely happen at this level and are a terrible way to evaluate defense.

As I said about him not taking penalties, he doesn't keep up with the play enough to even make huge errors.

I see Miller make those kinds of errors every game. I'm not trying to make it Miller verse Schneider because I think they're both still so young and have tremendous upside.

 

[Machinehead]

Why is it that a golden boy can carry his sucky partner to success/greatness, but when said golden boy struggles it's all about the sucky partner who's dragging him down?

Even McDonagh got crucified for what Girardi was doing in the midst of this season:

That's not 2014 or 2015, that's 2016. People hated McDonagh that year.

I've never seen a player treated with more sanctity on this board than Braden Schneider and you can't convince me it isn't because he beat up the Devils once.

 

[Machinehead]

I see Miller make those kinds of errors every game. I'm not trying to make it Miller verse Schneider because I think they're both still so young and have tremendous upside.

Don't make it Miller versus Schneider.

We might as well argue over whether steak or cow shit tastes better.

Miller is the talented youngster with a few holes that you're willing to live with. People think Schneider is that.

 

[McRanger92]

Because it's just not productive.

You can not like what it says to your heart's content but it's real. It's based on what happened on the ice and you shouldn't be dismissive when it's important to people.

I think there's a valid argument to be made that not much could have been done, but I think it's time to explore in the summer if this is the penciled-in #3 RD we're going with.

His pair almost singlehandedly lost the Pittsburgh series and we just pretended it was all on Nemeth like we're pretending it's all on Harpur. So, yes, it affected us.

The reason I talk about the "young" thing is because it's literally the only defense people have for him. You can't tell me what he does well besides hit and be 21. That's a bad sign.

You're seriously overlooking the effects bad players have on playoff aspirations. Everything in the playoffs is marginal.

Was everyone good against Tampa? No. Were they probably better than us? Yes.

It doesn't change the fact that we probably have a 3-2 lead if you replace Kevin Rooney with an NHL player.

Now you know what it's like to be spoken down to when you don't treat the charts as gospel. Not very enjoyable in my experience.

Anyway, I'll push back on the 3rd pair being the problem against Pittsburgh because as soon as Nemeth stopped playing(Game 5) the defense significantly improved. And I think Schneider does plenty of things well. As I mentioned, the in zone defensive play. he's physical, he doesn't take penalties, he has good reads jumping into the play on offense. I'd say he's having a sophomore slump this year personally, and the Rangers just are not going to spend money or assets to replace an ELC player who can take a regular shift and doesn't miss games, in the current economic climate of the league, you and I both know this.

I don't mean to go at it with you because I respect your opinion, but it touches a nerve with me because the board has been ripped apart over the past few years because of how our young guys develop, to the point it's unreadable. Pre-emptively blaming another 21 year old for a playoff ouster, is just more of the same.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Don't make it Miller versus Schneider.

We might as well argue over whether steak or cow shit tastes better.

Miller is the talented youngster with a few holes that you're willing to live with. People think Schneider is that.

Steak definitely tastes better and I literally said I'm not trying to pit one against the other. But you told me that catastrophic errors rarely happen at this level yet I see Miller turn the puck over all over the ice, he's been bad in his own end for a while now but I'm willing to live with both players at the moment.

 

[Machinehead]

Now you know what it's like to be spoken down to when you don't treat the charts as gospel. Not very enjoyable in my experience.

Anyway, I'll push back on the 3rd pair being the problem against Pittsburgh because as soon as Nemeth stopped playing(Game 5) the defense significantly improved. And I think Schneider does plenty of things well. As I mentioned, the in zone defensive play. he's physical, he doesn't take penalties, he has good reads jumping into the play on offense. I'd say he's having a sophomore slump this year personally, and the Rangers just are not going to spend money or assets to replace an ELC player who can take a regular shift and doesn't miss games, in the current economic climate of the league, you and I both know this.

I don't mean to go at it with you because I respect your opinion, but it touches a nerve with me because the board has been ripped apart over the past few years because of how our young guys develop, to the point it's unreadable. Pre-emptively blaming another 21 year old for a playoff ouster, is just more of the same.

We can go back and forth on the charts and whether they should be gospel. I use the charts because with all due respect, if you think Schneider plays well in the defensive zone, we're fundamentally not seeing the same thing. That's fine. It's all opinion anyway. So I trust the stats more than people.

You're right that there's a huge element on this board (and always has been) of people who are toxic towards the Rangers. The moderator team does the best they can with that. That being said, I've seen a lot better players have fewer defenders than this guy does. I think he's very far, save for the 2 or 3 of the board's prominent analytics people, from a maligned player on here.

You don't bother me at all. I enjoy most of your contributions. You know what bothers me? Reading the same few comments (from others, not you) about Chris Kreider EVERY f***ing GDT. He's 32 this month. If you don't like the player he is by now, just can it already. To that point, if a bus ran over Panarin, you would get out and see if the bus is ok. Tell me I'm wrong.

Point is, we all have guys we blame. We're all guilty of looking for a reason if the team should fail. We're all human. I look at the numbers because I try to at least be as subjective as I can when evaluating what we have.

He's 21, but that turns into 22, and that turns into 23. He has to be better if he's going to be a penciled-in regular long-term.