Value of: Blackhawks Fire Sale

[majormajor]

1. Again, which team can and will beat that offer for Knight? What does that deal look like?

2. Ottawa doesn't need Toews to play in their top 6, it's more about bringing in a respected veteran to captain the rebuild

3. IMO, Johnson is the biggest cap dump of the 3, which is why I don't think Calgary should to "pay a lot for the privilege of dumping that much dead cap". Johnson has no value to Chicago if they're entering a mini-rebuild, so they may as well get out from under the final year of his contract

4. Name the team who's willing to take on McCabe's contract for something "small"

5. Foligno had 16 points in 42 games for Columbus at the time of the trade. The Leafs should never have been willing to give up a 1st for a 33 year old with that level production

1 - The Panthers think of Knight the way the Habs thought of Price. It has to be a monster haul or there just won't be a trade.

2 - I just realized Toews' actual salary is only $2.9m this year (and $4m next), that is worth it for Ottawa. Now I'm thinking Ottawa needs to pay more than Brannstrom+2nd. At least include JBD or Greig or a prospect like that. Toews could be a steal at that salary.

3 - I don't know if Johnson has the worst cap hit of the three. I'd rather have him than Lucic, and definitely rather have him than Lucic + Monahan. Maybe Chicago would do Johnson for one of them. It's such a gift to Calgary to take both, maybe Chicago takes both if Calgary pays a 2nd+3rd or something for it.

4 - McCabe just signed a UFA deal this summer, he can't be that overpriced. Let's say Chicago was highest bidder for McCabe, how much more than the next team do you think they bid? $250k? He's maybe a slightly overpaid #4D, I know plenty of clubs would take that along with a 2nd rounder or something. Kubalik is worth a lot more. Really Chicago isn't in that much of a rush to dump salary, after the big contracts are up they'll be nowhere near the cap in 2024.

5 - You're not going to understand Foligno's value looking at points. He was not a top scorer but he was a top player, a high end defensive forward that led all of the league's forwards in TOI through two rounds of the bubble playoffs. That's exactly what the Leafs needed, unfortunately they didn't get that player because he was injured. Dylan Strome is worthless in comparison, especially for a team that doesn't need pure offense.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I didn't realize Lindholm was a UFA, so that makes it closer to the value you suggested.

If I'm Anaheim though I'm still not going to bite on Denisenko in particular, just my personal opinion on that prospect. I'd want a 1st+.

That's fine as well. FLA may even prefer the mid to late 1st+ since that player is likely 4 years away from even cracking an NHL roster.

Just figured Denisenko could fit into ANA'S lineup sooner than a future 1st

 

[robertocarlos]

Toews and Kane should be sent to that hole in the desert. Trade for picks and retain 90% of the cap hit.

 

[Perennial]

1 - The Panthers think of Knight the way the Habs thought of Price. It has to be a monster haul or there just won't be a trade.

2 - I just realized Toews' actual salary is only $2.9m this year (and $4m next), that is worth it for Ottawa. Now I'm thinking Ottawa needs to pay more than Brannstrom+2nd. At least include JBD or Greig or a prospect like that. Toews could be a steal at that salary.

3 - I don't know if Johnson has the worst cap hit of the three. I'd rather have him than Lucic, and definitely rather have him than Lucic + Monahan. Maybe Chicago would do Johnson for one of them. It's such a gift to Calgary to take both, maybe Chicago takes both if Calgary pays a 2nd+3rd or something for it.

4 - McCabe just signed a UFA deal this summer, he can't be that overpriced. Let's say Chicago was highest bidder for McCabe, how much more than the next team do you think they bid? $250k? He's maybe a slightly overpaid #4D, I know plenty of clubs would take that along with a 2nd rounder or something. Kubalik is worth a lot more. Really Chicago isn't in that much of a rush to dump salary, after the big contracts are up they'll be nowhere near the cap in 2024.

5 - You're not going to understand Foligno's value looking at points. He was not a top scorer but he was a top player, a high end defensive forward that led all of the league's forwards in TOI through two rounds of the bubble playoffs. That's exactly what the Leafs needed, unfortunately they didn't get that player because he was injured. Dylan Strome is worthless in comparison, especially for a team that doesn't need pure offense.

1. Great! The Panthers value Knight... but they've got Bobrovsky on the books long term with a 10 million cap hit, so are they going to extend Knight and have 2 goalies taking up 15+ million in cap space?

2. Name a team that beats the offer I proposed for Toews

3. Agree to disagree. If I'm entering a rebuild, I'll take the overpaid veterans on the shorter contracts over the overpaid veteran with the longer deal

4. Teams don't have the same cap space during the season as they did in the summer, and it's possible those teams that were interested found acquired someone else when McCabe chose Chicago

5. I'm understanding Foligno's value just fine


Multiple times I've asked you to provide an example of what a trade would look like, and so far you haven't done it...

 

[Taylorst]

Yeah about that...

As a Jackets fan I'm fully supportive of the Hawks going for a high draft pick / rebuild.

The Hawks should have long ago fired stan and things imo would be drastically different. The amount of talent he gave away and the numerous players with bad contracts handed out makes you wonder if rocky is any different than his disgraceful father who ran that orginization into the ground. The apple doesn't fall to far from the tree.

People can debate if Q deserved to be fired for the incident, imo the league in itself failed and is not excepting responsibility for their lack of oversight or policies / programs .

Remember each team is a franchise the league sets the rules and most franchise operations are audited and or need to follow the corporations strict guidelines otherwise they lose their franchise.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

1. Great! The Panthers value Knight... but they've got Bobrovsky on the books long term with a 10 million cap hit, so are they going to extend Knight and have 2 goalies taking up 15+ million in cap space?

Yes they will bridge Knight for a year or two and likely buy out Bob or retain on a trade + adds from FLA to move him with 1-2 year(s) left on his deal.

And then pay Knight his 7-8 yr deal.

Barkov, Ekblad, Knight and Lundell are as untouchable as it gets.

 

[majormajor]

2. Name a team that beats the offer I proposed for Toews

Toews @$2.9m salary + Murphy for Brannstrom and a 2nd? I think any budget team that isn't rebuilding should try and top that. If my Jackets were as far along in their rebuild as the Sens are, I'd want them to top that. That's a low price even for Murphy, let alone Toews at such a low salary.

Multiple times I've asked you to provide an example of what a trade would look like, and so far you haven't done it...

For Knight? I'm telling you there isn't going to be a deal. They wouldn't trade him for a two year asset. The only thing I could see them moving Spencer Knight for is a similar age blue chipper on the blue line, say Moritz Seider or Bo Byram. Maybe the Hawks could swing it but it would have to be Kane+++.

 

[Perennial]

Toews @$2.9m salary + Murphy for Brannstrom and a 2nd? I think any budget team that isn't rebuilding should try and top that. If my Jackets were as far along in their rebuild as the Sens are, I'd want them to top that. That's a low price even for Murphy, let alone Toews at such a low salary.



For Knight? I'm telling you there isn't going to be a deal. They wouldn't trade him for a two year asset. The only thing I could see them moving Spencer Knight for is a similar age blue chipper on the blue line, say Moritz Seider or Bo Byram. Maybe the Hawks could swing it but it would have to be Kane+++.

So, show me what a trade with Columbus looks like...


Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Florida is getting Byram or Seider for Knight, so... what are they going to do when he's up for extension? Pay him 5+ million and to have him and Bobrovsky taking up 15+ million cap space?

Tell me how it plays out...

 

[majormajor]

So, show me what a trade with Columbus looks like...


Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Florida is getting Byram or Seider for Knight, so... what are they going to do when he's up for extension? Pay him 5+ million and to have him and Bobrovsky taking up 15+ million cap space?

Tell me how it plays out...

@TheImpatientPanther is telling you what Florida fans want to do. I'm not telling you what the demand for Knight is, I'm telling you the price at which I think Florida might be willing to move him. Yes it is high.

I'm telling you that if the Jackets were one year further in their rebuild (or where Ottawa is) then I'd want them to beat that offer for Toews and Murphy. I'd send them Boqvist back if need be. Connor Murphy would be the best RD in Columbus and Toews would be some kind of upgrade somewhere in the top 9 centers. They'd be a huge lift, if the team was trying to be good.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

marner for DeBrincat+Kubalik

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

@TheImpatientPanther is telling you what Florida fans want to do. I'm not telling you what the demand for Knight is, I'm telling you the price at which I think Florida might be willing to move him. Yes it is high.

I'm telling you that if the Jackets were one year further in their rebuild (or where Ottawa is) then I'd want them to beat that offer for Toews and Murphy. I'd send them Boqvist back if need be. Connor Murphy would be the best RD in Columbus and Toews would be some kind of upgrade somewhere in the top 9 centers. They'd be a huge lift, if the team was trying to be good.

They probably have me on ignore.

I kinda like CBJ (as an outsider) with more offensive upside though.
May take a few years to build up the defense again no?

 

[Perennial]

@TheImpatientPanther is telling you what Florida fans want to do. I'm not telling you what the demand for Knight is, I'm telling you the price at which I think Florida might be willing to move him. Yes it is high.

I'm telling you that if the Jackets were one year further in their rebuild (or where Ottawa is) then I'd want them to beat that offer for Toews and Murphy. I'd send them Boqvist back if need be. Connor Murphy would be the best RD in Columbus and Toews would be some kind of upgrade somewhere in the top 9 centers. They'd be a huge lift, if the team was trying to be good.

TheImpatientPanther isn't telling me anything since I can't see their messages...

Also, I don't care what Florida fans want... I'm asking you to expand your thought process, not echo theirs


I certainly wouldn't entertain giving up Boqvist for Murphy, but to each his own...

 

[KevinRedkey]

Otawa doesn't need Toews to play in their top 6, it's more about bringing in a respected veteran to captain the rebuild/

Do you live under a rock?

 

[Chayos]

At the TDL:

To Edmonton:

D Strome
Fleury at 50%

To Chicago

Yamamoto
Benson
2nd round pick-2023
Turris
Koskinen

This is a money in money out deal for this season. The Blackhawks get a young NHL forward in Yamamoto, a prospect in Benson and a second round pick. Koskinen and Turris are for cap considerations and are expiring.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Do you live under a rock?

It's more like a bridge he lives under.

@TheImpatientPanther is telling you what Florida fans want to do. I'm not telling you what the demand for Knight is, I'm telling you the price at which I think Florida might be willing to move him. Yes it is high.

I'm telling you that if the Jackets were one year further in their rebuild (or where Ottawa is) then I'd want them to beat that offer for Toews and Murphy. I'd send them Boqvist back if need be. Connor Murphy would be the best RD in Columbus and Toews would be some kind of upgrade somewhere in the top 9 centers. They'd be a huge lift, if the team was trying to be good.

He blocks/ignores people who disagree with what Perennial would do in any trade.

 

[Sinbad]

marner for DeBrincat+Kubalik

I wouldn’t trade DeBrincat for Marner straight up, especially considering the difference in salaries. Then you want Kubalik as well… brutal!

 

[Deadly Dogma]

I wouldn’t trade DeBrincat for Marner straight up, especially considering the difference in salaries. Then you want Kubalik as well… brutal!

not at all the $$ comes out even ,
The difference between DeBrincat and Marner is about Kubalik

 

[Sinbad]

not at all the $$ comes out even ,
The difference between DeBrincat and Marner is about Kubalik

You do realize that DeBrincat was 3rd in goal scoring last season right?

He also had 11 less points then Marner in 3 less games without the benefit of a Mathews or Tavares as his centre.

Plus he makes $4m less which is huge in this flat cap era… as I said won’t happen straight up, never mind asking for Kubalik as well.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

marner for DeBrincat+Kubalik

Screw that, Debrincat is coming home to Detroit for Zadina. And the Hawks will like it and accept it.

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

I can see the Blackhawks making a move in the next week or two to pray their season isn't a write-off.

Something like Kessel for Strome and if they still can't win, a real sell-off come February.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

2. Ottawa doesn't need Toews to play in their top 6, it's more about bringing in a respected veteran to captain the rebuild

Not sure if he is still that anymore.

I would have screamed at the idea, but now i unno.

 

[Heldig]

Yeah about that...

As a Jackets fan I'm fully supportive of the Hawks going for a high draft pick / rebuild.

It would look really bad on the NHL if Chicago ends up winning the draft lottery on the heals of the scandal. League really should revoke the 1st round pick (maybe more) thus giving Columbus their 2022 pick.

 

[Taylorst]

I can see the Blackhawks making a move in the next week or two to pray their season isn't a write-off.

Something like Kessel for Strome and if they still can't win, a real sell-off come February.

Looking at chicago front office situation being almost depleted and a acting GM put into place , don't look for any headcoach firings or bombshell trade moves. Anything that happens going forward will need Rocky and Danny Wirtz permission. I think Chicago is going to take as much time needed to decide what structure and in their eyes who will become the next GM.

Plus with all the negativity and the team at rock bottom who would want to consider even working for chicago that imo will be a huge factor for the team in interviewing a candidate pool for the GM position.

JC will ride out the season and be the fall guy.

 

[Taylorst]

It would look really bad on the NHL if Chicago ends up winning the draft lottery on the heals of the scandal. League really should revoke the 1st round pick (maybe more) thus giving Columbus their 2022 pick.

On what basis ? Please stop letting your emotions dictate nonsense. There is plenty of blame/fault to be equally handed out like the kids own agent. The players association and bettman,,and his cronies .

The league already spoke in its decision by fining chicago 2 million.

 

[Desert Panther]

With the goal of clearing out their long term contracts in order to have significant cap space by the summer of 2024, here are a few trade ideas...


Trade #1
To Florida: Kane (50% retained), Lankinen

To Chicago: Hornqvist, Knight

Florida: They land an elite 1st line winger to play alongside Barkov, while also dumping Hornqvist's contract. As much as they may like Knight, can they really justify paying him 5+ million in a couple of years with Bobrovsky's contract on the roster? Lankinen gives them a cheap backup for the rest of the season

Chicago: They get their goalie of the future in Knight

Zito laughs and hangs up on this one. Knight isn't being moved for anything less than a Price-like package. He's the Panthers goalie of the future and a huge part of the plan.

Hornqvist's contract is up after next season (22-23) and he's a very likely candidate to be moved out to make room to resign Huberdeau (along with letting Vatrano walk) before then.

Bob's contract becomes a Modified NTC (16-team list) starting 7/1/24 so there is only a single season (23-24) where there may be a cap issue with Knight needing to get paid so even if Bob is a backup for a year as Knight moves into the starter's role, it's not as bad an albatross as it's being made out to be.

Finally, Florida needs defense not additional forward help. The only one on Chicago's roster that moves the needle here is Murphy and Chicago isn't moving him for less than an overpayment. The two teams just aren't good trade partners here.