Bettman meeting with Ryan Smith, owner of Utah Jazz and Real Salt Lake (upd: Smith asks NHL to open expansion process)

[Voight]

No predictions. Bettman and Daly say all the time that they listen to information from lots of cities. However, in this specific case....

Suppose Tempe is a no go
Suppose Houston is a no go because Fertitta won't pay

You have to have somewhere. Bettman learned that early on with Winnipeg falling into Phoenix because the better option (Mpls) fell through and there wasn't another choice.

I believe Ferttita has said he'll let an NHL team use his arena even if he doesn't own the team.

He also was part of a $6bn bid for the Redskins so I dont think payment is an issue.

 

[Voight]

Not to get off-topic, but cities that don't already have the facilities and infrastructure should not be bothering with the IOC or Olympic bids. Stick with cities that already have what is needed or go regional.

Ive seen some people online float the idea of cycling the Winter Olympics through Vancouver, SLC and two European/Asian cities. Its not terrible, it would be in places where they have the facilities/infrastructure which are also countries that are big on winter sports.

 

[PCSPounder]

I believe Ferttita has said he'll let an NHL team use his arena even if he doesn't own the team.

He also was part of a $6bn bid for the Redskins so I dont think payment is an issue.

Of course he'll let an NHL team pay rent to him while taking all the best dates and probably third-billing them behind some concerts.

The question is whether the NHL team owner wants to subject itself to that situation. The larger markets are distinguished by having enough TV money that it's not a concern. But Houston isn't Dallas and it's questionable whether you can get New Orleans to buy in on this (assuming that the solution is an old-school grouping of local channels, which itself is problematic).

 

[patnyrnyg]

Ive seen some people online float the idea of cycling the Winter Olympics through Vancouver, SLC and two European/Asian cities. Its not terrible, it would be in places where they have the facilities/infrastructure which are also countries that are big on winter sports.

I would be 100% for that. Or, regional. Such as US-Northeast, where you have events from Boston through DC, something along those lines.

 

[Tawnos]

That's totally fair. I've been on the SLC-Provo interstate corridor before, and it's really easy, and I could see how there'd easily be support from more than just the MSA.

Let me try CSA...

Adding NHL
29.33 Austin
37.44 Portland
49.89 Salt Lake
50.30 Atlanta
55.99 San Diego
59.93 Houston
82.21 Quebec City

Adding MLB
40.78 Montreal
48.09 Portland
62.63 Salt Lake
75.75 Charlotte
111.97 Nashville
133.00 Las Vegas

Adding MLB and NHL: 87.76 Salt Lake City.

Adding NBA: 32.15 Montreal

It paints a completely different picture, doesn't it? The point is that it takes a little more than simply looking at one or the other. This is one way where DMA is a better representation of the market, even though there are some obvious flaws in that method too. This is also why companies looking to expand their businesses don't rely on any of those metrics, but hire people to do true market analyses.

 

[oknazevad]

I'd be very concerned with SLC fitting the same thing I said in the Milwaukee thread. Namely that it appears to be a mid-size market big enough for an NBA or NHL team, but not both. And it already has the Jazz (even if that remains the stupidest name in all of the major North American sports leagues by a long shot).

 

[Tawnos]

I'd be very concerned with SLC fitting the same thing I said in the Milwaukee thread. Namely that it appears to be a mid-size market big enough for an NBA or NHL team, but not both. And it already has the Jazz (even if that remains the stupidest name in all of the major North American sports leagues by a long shot).

My favorite line in the movie Baseketball was when they were talking about the absurdity of some of the relocations and said "the Minnesota Lakers moved to LA where there aren't any lakes and the New Orleans Jazz moved to Utah where they don't allow music"

 

[KevFu]

Ive seen some people online float the idea of cycling the Winter Olympics through Vancouver, SLC and two European/Asian cities. Its not terrible, it would be in places where they have the facilities/infrastructure which are also countries that are big on winter sports.

Well, things get old and outdated. I don't see anything "wrong" with what Salt Lake is doing...

SLC built venues systematically through the decade while bidding on the 1998 and 2002 Olympics. Now they're looking to do it again.

The important thing is to have actual uses for what you build beyond just the Olympics. Which SLC did great at last time:

Salt Lake Ice Center > aka Vivint Arena for Utah Jazz
Maverik Center > Utah Grizzlies
Peaks Ice Arena > Utah Valley University, BYU club, USPHL hockey.
Ice Sheet at Ogden > Weber St hockey, USPHL tema, junior hockey
Olympic Oval > US Speedskating HQ
Salt Palace > New Convention Center
Olympic Village > University of Utah dorms

Atlanta did it well, too. Georgia Tech and Georgia State got new dorms, the MLB team got a new stadium (which is now GSU's football stadium!) and the NBA team got a new arena.

It paints a completely different picture, doesn't it? The point is that it takes a little more than simply looking at one or the other. This is one way where DMA is a better representation of the market, even though there are some obvious flaws in that method too. This is also why companies looking to expand their businesses don't rely on any of those metrics, but hire people to do true market analyses.

Right. I think the lists and stats are just for "numbers minded individuals" to back up common sense, and not really a "accept the numbers devoid of common sense" thing.

It's always immensely important to know WHY stats are what they are and not just follow stats.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Right. I think the lists and stats are just for "numbers minded individuals" to back up common sense, and not really a "accept the numbers devoid of common sense" thing.

It's always immensely important to know WHY stats are what they are and not just follow stats.

This is why we get along so well.

 

[RoyalAir]

Atlanta did it well, too. Georgia Tech and Georgia State got new dorms, the MLB team got a new stadium (which is now GSU's football stadium!) and the NBA team got a new arena.

Small point of clarification: Philips/State Farm was built after the Olympics, specifically for the Thrashers. The Omni was still in use for the 96 Games.

Hiyeva, your point absolutely stands. Atlanta is probably the best example of using the Games to add significant infrastructure without waste. Everything that was built for the Olympics is still standing and being used.

 

[BMN]

Small point of clarification: Philips/State Farm was built after the Olympics, specifically for the Thrashers.
Well....for the Thrashers while the Hawks moved in alongside. And were bounded to the lease. While the Thrashers weren't. Oops.

But yes, Ted had a NHL return in mind when plans for Philips began. The Omni was going to need to go at some point anyway though because it wasn't really built right to begin with.

 

[Headshot77]

I feel like SLC spending all this money in multiple large scale arenas when their very existence is in question is a horrible idea.

 

[HisIceness]

I'd be very concerned with SLC fitting the same thing I said in the Milwaukee thread. Namely that it appears to be a mid-size market big enough for an NBA or NHL team, but not both. And it already has the Jazz (even if that remains the stupidest name in all of the major North American sports leagues by a long shot).

Name swap idea.

New Orleans Jazz as was originally known.
Utah Grizzlies
Memphis???

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Name swap idea.

New Orleans Jazz as was originally known.
Utah Grizzlies
Memphis???

Tams

 

[Hammahtime]

I am super interested in this now with the public announcement that SLC is pursuing an MLB team.
I actually wonder if this is a race for the next major league franchise in the city and how/if it impacts the other ownership chase

Also I am assuming they are intending on NHL in SLC even though that is pure speculation

I for sure want to see some new teams in SLC !

 

[ichbinkanadier]

I’ve said for a while now that Utah absolutely should be a longterm expansion target for the NHL. It’s rapidly growing and very wealthy with a solid winter sports tradition. Only real downsides to it is that it’s still on the small side, for now, and geographically their market is very long and narrow, making a lot of the fanbase a trek and a half away from a game.

But Jazz fanbase is rock solid, and I have no doubt that the NHL would absolutely work there. Would love for them to be the Utah Yellowjackets, but that would be a tad too repetitive to have two jackets squads in the NHL. Probably something else bee-related, promoting the Grizzlies name (although with the Memphis Grizzlies I’m not sure if there are any hiccups with an NBA owner owning a major pro team in another league with a potential rival’s name), or something else with a double z.

I wonder too if perhaps the NHL could lure away Jazz fans given the current state of NBA players with their load management, and otherwise seeming desire of players and Silver to alienate its current fan base. Same for the Portland market.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

I have to think that if Quebec had a legitimate shot, it would have happened by now. I fully get wanting a return of hockey in a traditional hockey city, but I'm all but positive that the biggest obstacle to this happening was, is, and will remain the Habs. They are not going to just give up their control of the province. They only allowed it last time because of the WHL merger, because the league put pressure on them to do so, that exact situation is never going to repeat.

I would think Quebec City's biggest obstacles are it's the 7th largest market in Canada (and under 1 million) and is in an existing market.

If I'm an NHL owner who wants to see my investment return increase, I would rather take a chance on a larger non-traditional market that can bring in new fans and hopefully better tv money than a small market that adds nothing.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

That is true from a fan percentage factor, but those people aren't buying tickets if they're sitting in Quebec watching hockey on TV. There's money to be made... it's just a question of how much and if the juice is worth the squeeze.

I strongly suspect that the NHL wanted East/West balance first and foremost before adding QC.

I also suspect they didn't want multiple teams coming in together rapid fire any more because it's really detrimental to the fan growth. We saw it in the 1990s, where the first five expansion teams were all bad and drafting high... but new teams were jumping them in the draft order by being newer/worse.

They added 5 teams in 3 years, then 4 teams in 4 years. If you don't add that many, it's a lot easier for the new bad teams to build via the draft. Like without FLA/ANA coming a year later, Ottawa gets to take Jovanovsky instead of Bonk and they have a better team.


And of course, I suspect that Bettman is going to get the Quebec Nordiques back before retiring as part of legacy shopping.

Bonk was a rather good player during their heyday run.

Also, can you compare today to the 90s when the team-building landscape is different? Examples: draft lottery, UFAs at 24 or so, salary cap to make "hoarding" difficult for the top teams, etc

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Name swap idea.

New Orleans Jazz as was originally known.
Utah Grizzlies
Memphis???

Jazz name works in Memphis too. Swap Grizzlies and Jazz name and call it a day.

 

[hangman005]

 

[GKJ]

Kinda weird he’d do that

 

[Hammahtime]

Makes me wonder how far along this could be

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Makes me wonder how far along this could be

Where are they going to play long run? Have you seen Jazz's arena in hockey configuration?

 

[Hammahtime]

Where are they going to play long run? Have you seen Jazz's arena in hockey configuration?

I honestly have no clue, I just wonder if it’s “hey what do I need to get a team” or if they are deep into possibly building a new arena for the Jazz/NHL and Winter Olympics

 

[No Fun Shogun]

It seems to me like an apparent double whammy to want to get a new arena built. Hey, you love the Jazz, and we're offering a new NHL team to boot, and it wouldn't hurt to have a new centerpiece for a future olympics. Public monies, please.