Value of: Ben Chiarot can bring a 1st pick?

[Richard88]

Just gonna go ahead and leave this here...

 

[Colezuki]

Just gonna go ahead and leave this here...

And yet all the insiders report that chariot is likely to get a first as his impact in the playoffs is what your getting him for. Your not getting him for regular season play your getting him for crease clearing play.

 

[jfhabs]

And Toronto traded a 1st for depth (Foligno) and lost in the 1st round again. Dropping 1st's looks good when you win, but it fails more often than not.

I mean they got a bit unlucky since he got injured and wasn't able to contribute. But yeah, of course it's not an automatic. However you won't go far in the playoffs without depth.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

And yet all the insiders report that chariot is likely to get a first as his impact in the playoffs is what your getting him for. Your not getting him for regular season play your getting him for crease clearing play.

No team will offer a 1st for a dman who's only good at clearing the crease.

 

[Archijerej]

He was always going to command good value, because he's a solid player. I was sceptical about the 1st, but based on insiders' reports, I expect he'll get us one.

 

[Gaud]

I think Chiarot fetches value equivalent to a 1st, but as a habs fan, im thinking our pro scouting is leagues ahead of our amateur scouting and would rather have good prospects instead. For one, the value is less of an uknown and for two, it may lessen the time needed for our next generation of habs to mature

 

[jfhabs]

Just gonna go ahead and leave this here...

IMO, that's why you can't use advanced stats on their own... this just shows the limit of such stats, it is ridiculously flawed in this case. If I remember correctly, Weber had shit metrics too. While Kulak's were significantly better. Makes sense right?

 

[Richard88]

IMO, that's why you can't use advanced stats on their own... this just shows the limit of such stats, it is ridiculously flawed in this case. If I remember correctly, Weber had shit metrics too. While Kulak's were significantly better. Makes sense right?

Yes Kulak is around top 15-20 in CF% among defensemen over the last three years. Petry is around 12th or so as well if I recall right.

 

[Richard88]

He was always going to command good value, because he's a solid player. I was sceptical about the 1st, but based on insiders' reports, I expect he'll get us one.

What do you think Chiarot and Lehkonen would fetch as a package?

Imo realistically both are probably in the 2nd+ range if traded individually, but packaging them could bump that up to a 1st+ for both, which might be more worthwhile for Montreal.

 

[Colezuki]

What do you think Chiarot and Lehkonen would fetch as a package?

Imo realistically both are probably in the 2nd+ range if traded individually, but packaging them could bump that up to a 1st+ for both, which might be more worthwhile for Montreal.

Chariot will get a first - as reported by insiders
- Friedman, Johnston, and Lebrun that teams are lining up for his services.

Lehk is still an RFA and on a decent contract. I expect that for the Habs to move him they'll want something similar to Goodrow or Coleman to walk away

 

[Wlodarczyk]

People seem to forget around here that worse players got 1st round picks at TDL or some other time because GMs are dumb and overpay most of the time.

Players like Hartman, Reaves, Zucker and some others got a first pick.

Chiarot will get a 1st round pick. If he doesn't, he doesn't, but insiders are way more closer to the truth than the typical HFer in here.

How many times people are right in here.. close to never.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Just gonna go ahead and leave this here...

I'm not sure what this arguing, Chiarot has literally always had garbage underlying numbers and has been considered valuable by Hockey Men™ for a while. He's part of the archetype D-man that people always overpay for.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

I'm not sure what this arguing, Chiarot has literally always had garbage underlying numbers and has been considered valuable by Hockey Men™ for a while. He's part of the archetype D-man that people always overpay for.

Kinda like Gudbranson who's good for a 7th round pick at the TDL?

 

[Archijerej]

What do you think Chiarot and Lehkonen would fetch as a package?

Imo realistically both are probably in the 2nd+ range if traded individually, but packaging them could bump that up to a 1st+ for both, which might be more worthwhile for Montreal.

I'm more optimistic about their value when traded individually, as I've already indicated in my comment regarding Chiarot.

As for Lehkonen, you're right. A 2nd + would be the standard value if he was a rental, but he's not. The Habs can get this return next year, if they decide Lehkonen does not fit their long-term plans. For a team to acquire him this year, they would have to pony up.

Considering the above, I don't see a realistic scenario of them being traded in a package. The Habs would want either the equivalent of two 1st round picks or one young core piece that moves the needle for them long-term. Hard to imagine someone willing to pay that for two good, but essentially non-core pieces.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Kinda like Gudbranson who's good for a 7th round pick at the TDL?

Or like Gudbranson for McCann, a 2nd and a 4th or kind of like Savard who returned a 1st+ last deadline or Ristolainen who returned a 1st and a 2nd.

It happens ALL THE TIME. All you can to do is hope your favourite team's GM isn't the one to make the trade. But it reliably happens.

 

[RationalExpectations]

No team will offer a 1st for a dman who's only good at clearing the crease.

Savard 2021 ?

 

[dumpin]

Time will tell with Chariot. Hard to look at only 1 season when he is a vet. They won't move him if they don't get a first.

Suzuki is more comparable to Petterson and Nylander

Both are better players than Suzuki and both make less than Suzuki.

Pettersson was who I was thinking of when I said some kids get the big payday early and fade. What is their true value? What they showed two years ago or what they have done since their payday. Pettersson had two very good years early with 66 points since signing for the big bucks his production is down quite a bit.. Here is another kid that should have been given a bridge type contract. He is way overpaid.

Nylander is in his seventh season in the NHL and has a proven record of performance.. You know what you can expect every year. He is also making like 1 mil less a season than Suzuki.

Congrats to Suzuki in hooking up with a good agent Im happy for him. Your next GM wont be so happy.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Chariot will get a first - as reported by insiders
- Friedman, Johnston, and Lebrun that teams are lining up for his services.

Lehk is still an RFA and on a decent contract. I expect that for the Habs to move him they'll want something similar to Goodrow or Coleman to walk away

You expect the Coleman deal for Lehkonen?

Hahahah

 

[TomKosto]

You expect the Coleman deal for Lehkonen?

Hahahah

We won't get that... Lekhonen is not a pest and a physical player, Coleman is a better goal scorer also. A lot of habs fans overrate him. He will fletch a 2nd IMO. We might keep him too.

 

[JustAHabFan]

We won't get that... Lekhonen is not a pest and a physical player, Coleman is a better goal scorer also. A lot of habs fans overrate him. He will fletch a 2nd IMO. We might keep him too.

The Habs drafted Lehkonen in the 2nd. They have developed him to be a versatile player who do the PK very well. Lehkonen can play up and down the line up effectively (doing great with Suzuki and Toffoli right now). He is still RFA. Why should we trade him for a 2nd? If the offer is for a 2nd, the Habs is much better off keeping him as a vet presence during the rebuild.

 

[Captain Mountain]

You expect the Coleman deal for Lehkonen?

Hahahah

Thanks random poster. Seravalli seems to think otherwise.

The Daily Faceoff Show: Could Artturi Lehkonen net a first-round pick for the Montreal Canadiens? - Daily Faceoff

He might not a get a 1st, but its laughable to think its laughable.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Thanks random poster. Seravalli seems to think otherwise.

The Daily Faceoff Show: Could Artturi Lehkonen net a first-round pick for the Montreal Canadiens? - Daily Faceoff

He might not a get a 1st, but its laughable to think its laughable.

Coleman got 2 1sts

So yes it’s very laughable

 

[Captain Mountain]

Coleman got 2 1sts

So yes it’s very laughable

“A lot of teams view him as sort of the, this year’s version, potentially of Blake Coleman or Barclay Goodrow, a guy that could fetch a first-round pick, that does just about everything right for your team.

The poster you were replying too couldn't be more obviously talking about a 1st and a prospect (not two 1sts) by referring to Goodrow as well.

 

[samsagat]

Would see LA being interested.

They're searching for a big bruising LD.

They might not put their 1st into play for Chiarot but one/some of their numerous good prospects would be a possibility.

They won't be able to make room for all of them anyway, particularly fowards or RD.

 

[samsagat]

And Toronto traded a 1st for depth (Foligno) and lost in the 1st round again. Dropping 1st's looks good when you win, but it fails more often than not.

Late 1st rd picks fails more often than not too.

When you're in a contender window, the question is are you ready to sacrifice the "if" (with low % of giving you something of value) for immediate help?

It's all a question of risk management and what you're willing to do to make it happen.

Sometimes when you want everything and its contrary (winning now and keeping your potential long terms assets), you end up with nothing...

J. Brisebois calculated that the risk was worth the reward, he has two rings on his fingers now...