Value of: Ben Chiarot can bring a 1st pick?

[TomKosto]

The Habs drafted Lehkonen in the 2nd. They have developed him to be a versatile player who do the PK very well. Lehkonen can play up and down the line up effectively (doing great with Suzuki and Toffoli right now). He is still RFA. Why should we trade him for a 2nd? If the offer is for a 2nd, the Habs is much better off keeping him as a vet presence during the rebuild.

Just like I said, we might just keep him. Where u draft a player means nothing for the return you will get. As much has I like Lek, we are not getting a first for a 11-13goals/30pts two way soft player, let’s be real…

 

[jfhabs]

We won't get that... Lekhonen is not a pest and a physical player, Coleman is a better goal scorer also. A lot of habs fans overrate him. He will fletch a 2nd IMO. We might keep him too.

Wouldn't trade him for a 2nd tho

 

[jfhabs]

Just like I said, we might just keep him. Where u draft a player means nothing for the return you will get. As much has I like Lek, we are not getting a first for a 11-13goals/30pts two way soft player, let’s be real…

How is he soft? He's not going out of his way to throw hits or fight but he's not soft by any means

 

[TomKosto]

How is he soft? He's not going out of his way to throw hits or fight but he's not soft by any means

We are not getting a first for a 12goals,30pts, not going out of his way to throw hits or fight, player, if thats better for you. Goodrow and Coleman are tough,pest and that's way tampa overpayed for them, not happening with Lek. As I said, we might just keep him.

 

[jfhabs]

We are not getting a first for a 12goals,30pts, not going out of his way to throw hits or fight, player, if thats better for you. Goodrow and Coleman are tough,pest and that's way tampa overpayed for them, not happening with Lek. As I said, we might just keep him.

Coleman is better overall, but Goodrow isn't. If we don't have anything better then a 2nd , it would be stupid to trade him imo

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Coleman is better overall, but Goodrow isn't. If we don't have anything better then a 2nd , it would be stupid to trade him imo

Goodrow was making under 1M for 2 years on tampas cap. Lehkonen's cap hit is 2.3M and is expiring. San Jose also had to attach a 3rd to Goodrow in order to get Tampa's first (which was the 31st pick). If you are planning to use all of that as a comparable for expected Lehkonen return, you're going to be dissapointed.

 

[jfhabs]

Goodrow was making under 1M for 2 years on tampas cap. Lehkonen's cap hit is 2.3M and is expiring. San Jose also had to attach a 3rd to Goodrow in order to get Tampa's first (which was the 31st pick). If you are planning to use all of that as a comparable for expected Lehkonen return, you're going to be dissapointed.

I'm not cause I'm fine keeping him. He's paid more because he's a better player then Goodrow at the moment of the trade.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I'm not cause I'm fine keeping him. He's paid more because he's a better player then Goodrow at the moment of the trade.

Okay but what I am telling you is the fact he's paid over twice as much, and doesn't have extra years on his deal is why he isn't worth what Goodrow got. Goodrow was pretty much worth a 2nd while at an amazing cap hit for 2 seasons, and it took an extra 3rd to get a 1st in return for him.

 

[jfhabs]

Okay but what I am telling you is the fact he's paid over twice as much, and doesn't have extra years on his deal is why he isn't worth what Goodrow got. Goodrow was pretty much worth a 2nd while at an amazing cap hit for 2 seasons, and it took an extra 3rd to get a 1st in return for him.

He's rfa tho and he's better at hockey

 

[Gaud]

The Habs drafted Lehkonen in the 2nd. They have developed him to be a versatile player who do the PK very well. Lehkonen can play up and down the line up effectively (doing great with Suzuki and Toffoli right now). He is still RFA. Why should we trade him for a 2nd? If the offer is for a 2nd, the Habs is much better off keeping him as a vet presence during the rebuild.

The guy has imppecable work ethic, proffesionalism and accepts his role. he is young and on a fair salary. He may be worth a 2nd to other GMs, but im with you here. Why would we accept anything but an overpay for someone with his skillset and workethic?

 

[Gaud]

We are not getting a first for a 12goals,30pts, not going out of his way to throw hits or fight, player, if thats better for you. Goodrow and Coleman are tough,pest and that's way tampa overpayed for them, not happening with Lek. As I said, we might just keep him.

I think that makes him medium firm, not soft haha
sorry - this reminded me of discussions ive had with my gf regarding tofu

 

[ManofSteel55]

Every year we see players get traded for more of what fans think at the deadline, it's nothing new bud!

We see players get moved for less than what fans think they will get at the deadline every year too.

 

[Notabaguette]

Both are better players than Suzuki and both make less than Suzuki.

Pettersson was who I was thinking of when I said some kids get the big payday early and fade. What is their true value? What they showed two years ago or what they have done since their payday. Pettersson had two very good years early with 66 points since signing for the big bucks his production is down quite a bit.. Here is another kid that should have been given a bridge type contract. He is way overpaid.

Nylander is in his seventh season in the NHL and has a proven record of performance.. You know what you can expect every year. He is also making like 1 mil less a season than Suzuki.

Congrats to Suzuki in hooking up with a good agent Im happy for him. Your next GM wont be so happy.

You must be an NHL scout with such great knowledge like that lol. Again you are just biased with your hard on hating the Habs. By the way I don't know if you watch the game or not, but the Habs are not doing well this year. If you judge based on a bad year the stats tend to be worse.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

He's rfa tho and he's better at hockey

Even if you think he's "better at hockey"...they're both 3rd line/middle-6 players, they're not that valuable. And I don't care if he's an RFA, he's the same age Goodrow was when he was traded, and whatever team trades for him still has to absorb his 2.3M cap hit (Tampa only had to absordb 975k for Goodrow) and then they have to sign him to a contract this summer at probably something similar or maybe higher (Tampa did not have to worry about this because Goodrow had another year left).

It's not like Lehkonen is multiple tiers above Goodrow to warrant his level of play being worth more than having a player of the same caliber for half the money and an extra year.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I could definitely see TB or another top team moving their 1st for him if he has at least 50% of his salary retained. He showed last year that he can play a regular shift deep into the playoffs and that carries a lot of value. I'd rather him for my 3rd pair than Savard, that's for sure.

 

[jfhabs]

Even if you think he's "better at hockey"...they're both 3rd line/middle-6 players, they're not that valuable. And I don't care if he's an RFA, he's the same age Goodrow was when he was traded, and whatever team trades for him still has to absorb his 2.3M cap hit (Tampa only had to absordb 975k for Goodrow) and then they have to sign him to a contract this summer at probably something similar or maybe higher (Tampa did not have to worry about this because Goodrow had another year left).

It's not like Lehkonen is multiple tiers above Goodrow to warrant his level of play being worth more than having a player of the same caliber for half the money and an extra year.

When he got traded, is career high was 8 goals and he was a exclusively a 4th liner. Lehkonen plays up and down the line up, PK and is good for 15 goals a year (almost doubling Goodrow). At the moment of the trade, Goodrow wasn't as good as Lehkonen is right now.

Maybe you don't care if he's RFA, but that has a pretty good impact on value. It's very weird you say that...
Montreal could easily retain half of the 2.3M to make it 1.15 which makes it pretty much the same. It's not very far fetched we could do that...
Like I said, I'm fine with keeping him and I wouldn't trade him for a late 2nd round pick.

 

[TomKosto]

When he got traded, is career high was 8 goals and he was a exclusively a 4th liner. Lehkonen plays up and down the line up, PK and is good for 15 goals a year (almost doubling Goodrow). At the moment of the trade, Goodrow wasn't as good as Lehkonen is right now.

Maybe you don't care if he's RFA, but that has a pretty good impact on value. It's very weird you say that...
Montreal could easily retain half of the 2.3M to make it 1.15 which makes it pretty much the same. It's not very far fetched we could do that...
Like I said, I'm fine with keeping him and I wouldn't trade him for a late 2nd round pick.

Yea but he is tough, can drop the gloves, make big hits. It was what Tampa lacked to get long playoff run. Has I said, I don't dislike Lek, but I don't see a GM overpaying for him. He's a true pro, I think we will just keep him.

 

[jfhabs]

Yea but he is tough, can drop the gloves, make big hits. It was what Tampa lacked to get long playoff run. Has I said, I don't dislike Lek, but I don't see a GM overpaying for him. He's a true pro, I think we will just keep him.

I mean, yes you're right it is what Tampa was looking for, but I don't see Goodrow being intimidating to play against in anyway. He's not winning a lot of fights.
I don't think it would be an overpayment to pay a late first for Lehkonen at 1.15 M, considering he's RFA.
Chances of that late first being anything close to Lekhonen are what, 25% at most. If a teams feel he is what they need, I don't see it as an overpayment.

But yes, we'll gladly keep him here. He's a good example for the kids.

 

[TomKosto]

I mean, yes you're right it is what Tampa was looking for, but I don't see Goodrow being intimidating to play against in anyway. He's not winning a lot of fights.
I don't think it would be an overpayment to pay a late first for Lehkonen at 1.15 M, considering he's RFA.
Chances of that late first being anything close to Lekhonen are what, 25% at most. If a teams feel he is what they need, I don't see it as an overpayment.

But yes, we'll gladly keep him here. He's a good example for the kids.

He may not win all of his fight, but he’s tough and will step up for his teammates. That’s also why NyR gave him that contract this summer. Not the case with Lekhonen.

 

[ProMath]

This debate about is he worth a first is pretty useless.

It's more simple, if no one offer a 1st or good prospect, you simply keep him unless he asked to be moved.

Lek won't hurt us if we rebuild...and trading him for a 2nd won't move the needle enough for a rebuild.

I do believe it's possible he return a 1st. Deadline is always a wild card from our perspective.

 

[Mr Positive]

I dont see why more GMs use all kinds of conditional assets on trades

In Chiarot's case, it's hard to say what he's worth out of context.

So why not add all kinds of conditional assets. Like if Montreal really wants a 1st for sure, a team could give it, and if Chiarot doesnt do well, Montreal gives a 2nd or whatever. Or, the pick they get is totally conditional, like a 2nd rounder that can become a 1st

 

[Colezuki]

I dont see why more GMs use all kinds of conditional assets on trades

In Chiarot's case, it's hard to say what he's worth out of context.

So why not add all kinds of conditional assets. Like if Montreal really wants a 1st for sure, a team could give it, and if Chiarot doesnt do well, Montreal gives a 2nd or whatever. Or, the pick they get is totally conditional, like a 2nd rounder that can become a 1st

Because GM’s do t negotiate one v one but instead with multiple at the same time and one will just say take the first

 

[Mr Positive]

Because GM’s do t negotiate one v one but instead with multiple at the same time and one will just say take the first

Okay fight that with more conditions then. So Montreal gets the first no matter what, but if Chiarot does really good (maybe a playoff TOI measure) then Montreal gets an extra pick. And you justify this by having it that if Chiarot underperforms, Montreal is the one giving the extra pick (although they keep the first)

I'm convinced at some point this will become normal. With conditions you can take out the gambling aspect of a trade and make it so the right value is reached. It's just saner this way

 

[Colezuki]

Okay fight that with more conditions then. So Montreal gets the first no matter what, but if Chiarot does really good (maybe a playoff TOI measure) then Montreal gets an extra pick. And you justify this by having it that if Chiarot underperforms, Montreal is the one giving the extra pick (although they keep the first)

I'm convinced at some point this will become normal. With conditions you can take out the gambling aspect of a trade and make it so the right value is reached. It's just saner this way

This I could absolutely see

 

[thusk]

Even if you think he's "better at hockey"...they're both 3rd line/middle-6 players, they're not that valuable. And I don't care if he's an RFA, he's the same age Goodrow was when he was traded, and whatever team trades for him still has to absorb his 2.3M cap hit (Tampa only had to absordb 975k for Goodrow) and then they have to sign him to a contract this summer at probably something similar or maybe higher (Tampa did not have to worry about this because Goodrow had another year left).

It's not like Lehkonen is multiple tiers above Goodrow to warrant his level of play being worth more than having a player of the same caliber for half the money and an extra year.

The difference is thats season the best player available was pageau, kovalchuk, trochek, toffoli, zucker, martinez, dillon

This season ita giroux, hertl, pavelski, klinberg, chychrun lindholm, giordano, kessel...

I give you the choice
Lehkonen for a 1st or
cal clutterbuck for a 3rd,
Or rakell for a 2nd as exemple

who do you choose? The choice is pretty easy