Value of: Ben Chiarot can bring a 1st pick?

[nammerus]

Habs fan are amazing. This guy is worth a 1st:

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I voted no, but there will probably be a team stupid enough to pay a 1st for him.

 

[Colezuki]

Habs fan are amazing. This guy is worth a 1st:

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Your amazing, you dont even realize it's the insiders saying it not us

 

[CDN24]

Every team in east are set in the west 4 team are set . With like 12 team already set, yes buyer market is open

Actually having Teams already locked in to the playoffs helps you get a 1st. A 1st is a lot to pay for a bubble team who may still miss. A team locked into a spot now is thinking about going deep in playoffs. Their 1st notionally has less value to them as its likely later. Much like Tampa paying a 1st for Savard last year. These teams watched what Chiarot did in last years playoffs- that is what they want to add and someone probably steps up and pays that price.

 

[Hunter368]

What players are worth and what players return in a trade are often very different. Just saying

 

[John Mandalorian]

 

[Habs Halifax]

Habs fan are amazing. This guy is worth a 1st:

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Actually, it's the media and reporters who started the 1st round narrative. All the Habs fans are doing is point that out and there is context at play that supports the possibility. But you probably assume "a Possibility" as it's going to happen for sure.

Rack up your opinion towards the Habs as just another ignorant one (lack of knowledge) and you just want to throw jabs. Background noise.

I wish mods would make it against he rules to group one fan base into one opinion! It's time cause it's nonsense and a major distraction to those who want to debate in good faith.

 

[Deam78]

Yeah I don't think this is the right way to look at it.

I'm not sure it's quantifiable in an objective way, but the best way to look at this would be by infractions committed to infractions called ratio. While he gets more penalties in the playoffs, I'm sure it's getting call at smaller rate to actual infraction committed than during the regular season.

He might have a small increase in calls per game, but from seeing him in playoffs runs, he probably has triple his amount of infractions that should be called compared to regular season.

All that to say he cross checks and does interference without being called on A LOT more in the playoffs.

 

[thusk]

Actually having Teams already locked in to the playoffs helps you get a 1st. A 1st is a lot to pay for a bubble team who may still miss. A team locked into a spot now is thinking about going deep in playoffs. Their 1st notionally has less value to them as its likely later. Much like Tampa paying a 1st for Savard last year. These teams watched what Chiarot did in last years playoffs- that is what they want to add and someone probably steps up and pays that price.

You cant compare to savard, the depht of player available was not the same.

At the trade deadline, if lindholm, manson, klindberg become available, chiarot value will not be the same than without those player. Not sure a team will pay a 1st for chiarot if they can have lindholm with an add of a B prospect or get a manson for a 2nd pick or a guy like Dehaan or Braun for a 3rd. Its not the same thing than paying a big price for savard or get nothing...

Thats why i think its the right time to trade chiarot before some other player come available.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Min of 15 games played in the playoffs over the last two years.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You cant compare to savard, the depht of player available was not the same.

At the trade deadline, if lindholm, manson, klindberg become available, chiarot value will not be the same than without those player. Not sure a team will pay a 1st for chiarot if they can have lindholm with an add of a B prospect or get a manson for a 2nd pick or a guy like Dehaan or Braun for a 3rd. Its not the same thing than paying a big price for savard or get nothing...

Thats why i think its the right time to trade chiarot before some other player come available.

You're overlooking the area where teams might be after a certain type of D (like Tampa with Savard last year). It's much deeper than teams picking up just any top 4D. In most cases, it's about fit and a certain style of player.

Do you think guys like Lindholm and Klingberg play the same physical game as Chiarot? Teams might already have their offensive and puck mover types but are looking for more muscle. Chiarot does not get enough credit for how well he can skate for a big man.

 

[nammerus]

You're overlooking the area where teams might be after a certain type of D (like Tampa with Savard last year). It's much deeper than teams picking up just any top 4D. In most cases, it's about fit and a certain style of player.

Do you think guys like Lindholm and Klingberg play the same physical game as Chiarot? Teams might already have their offensive and puck mover types but are looking for more muscle. Chiarot does not get enough credit for how well he can skate for a big man.

Should probably re-phrase that:

Given how well he skates for his size, it’s impressive how awful a defender he is.

 

[FerrisRox]

Habs fan are amazing. This guy is worth a 1st:

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You do realize it's the reporters who cover the league and the Insiders who cover trades that are saying he is going to fetch a first round pick, right?

It's not Canadiens fans that fuel this, it's reporters and journalists.

You're free to disagree, and even mock the opinion, but you'd have a lot more credibility if you understood where this was coming from in the first place.

 

[CDN24]

You cant compare to savard, the depht of player available was not the same.

At the trade deadline, if lindholm, manson, klindberg become available, chiarot value will not be the same than without those player. Not sure a team will pay a 1st for chiarot if they can have lindholm with an add of a B prospect or get a manson for a 2nd pick or a guy like Dehaan or Braun for a 3rd. Its not the same thing than paying a big price for savard or get nothing...

Thats why i think its the right time to trade chiarot before some other player come available.

I agree you have a better chance of getting the 1st now from one of the 12 teams that is pretty much locked into a spot. Don't think it has to be a 1st either. They may want a decent prospect instead. Key is not to overplay your hand and be left like the Iles were a few years ago when they had to trade Vaneck for peanuts cause they waited too long.

 

[thusk]

You're overlooking the area where teams might be after a certain type of D (like Tampa with Savard last year). It's much deeper than teams picking up just any top 4D. In most cases, it's about fit and a certain style of player.

Do you think guys like Lindholm and Klingberg play the same physical game as Chiarot? Teams might already have their offensive and puck mover types but are looking for more muscle. Chiarot does not get enough credit for how well he can skate for a big man.

Do you really know how play lindholm? Do you think chiarot is as good as lindholm defensivly? The biggest difference between chiarot and lindholm is not the physical game, its just lindholm can play any kind of situation at any moment with everybody vs chiarot who need to play with a good d in the other side to look good too.

So yes if a team look for a big physical shutdown dman, the choice between lindholm and chiarot will be pretty easy + a choice between chiarot and Manson will be pretty close

 

[Habs Halifax]

Should probably re-phrase that:

Given how well he skates for his size, it’s impressive how awful a defender he is.

Let me give you some context and you can try the same back... I think if you ask the Pens, Leafs, Jets, and Knights, they probably tell you he was very annoying to play against in the trenches. Usage matters and you get very close value to what McDonagh brings for Tampa.

I did this quickly (let me know if there are errors) so debate in good faith and provide your context on why you think he is an awful defender. Do you think his giveaways/60 are red flags and it has nothing to do with the Habs exposing our D where they are pinned in our own end time and time again? I got a hunch you ignore everything else and focus on one area

McDonagh
Regular Season:
* 23 min a game
* 66.7% of D zone starts
* 43.8 Corsi
* 3.39 Hits/60
* 4.58 Blocks/60
* 0.73 Giveaways/60
* 0.67 Takeaways/60

Playoffs:
* 23 min a game
* 60.8% of D zone starts
* 41.4% Corsi
* 6.05 Hits/60
* 5.25 Blocks/60
* 2.39 Giveaways/60
* 1.37 Takeaways/60

Chiarot:
Regular Season:
* 23 min a game
* 65.7% of D zone starts
* 42.1 Corsi
* 5.56 Hits/60
* 4.39 Blocks/60
* 2.57 Giveaways/60
* 0.81 Takeaways/60

Playoffs:
* 25 min a game
* 66.4% of D zone starts
* 41.7 Corsi
* 9.5 Hits/60
* 5.18 Blocks/60
* 4.10 Giveaways/60
* 0.75 Takeaways/60

 

[Habs Halifax]

Do you really know how play lindholm? Do you think chiarot is as good as lindholm defensivly? The biggest difference between chiarot and lindholm is not the physical game, its just lindholm can play any kind of situation at any moment with everybody vs chiarot who need to play with a good d in the other side to look good too.

So yes if a team look for a big physical shutdown dman, the choice between lindholm and chiarot will be pretty easy + a choice between chiarot and Manson will be pretty close

Why do you think Tampa paid the 1st to get Savard? Idiots?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Giveaway leaders in the last two playoffs (min of 10 games). If you want to nit pick Chiarot in that area alone, lets look at others near him.

 

[thusk]

Why do you think Tampa paid the 1st to get Savard? Idiots?

Savard was by far the best dman

Montour, mike rielly, kulikov, nemeth, merril was the best dman available
Vs
Lindholm klindberg giordano manson, ristolainen, miller, chiarot, braun, de haan, subban... the best dman after savard last season was worst of anyone in that list...thats why tampa paid that much for savard...

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Why do you think Tampa paid the 1st to get Savard? Idiots?

Because he was the only top-4 right handed defenseman available for trade last year, and was 75% retained.

Their is much more available defenseman this year than last, and I'm pretty sure less 1st round picks available in the 2022 draft.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Savard was by far the best dman

Montour, mike rielly, kulikov, nemeth, merril was the best dman available
Vs
Lindholm klindberg giordano manson, ristolainen, miller, chiarot, braun, de haan, subban... the best dman after savard last season was worst of anyone in that list...thats why tampa paid that much for savard...

Fair but you are assuming all those guys are available and equal. I would have Giordano and Chiarot as guys I would be targeting (physical types who can provide trust/maturity in their own end).

Why are people getting caught into a knot about "Could return a 1st". I don't think most Habs fans started the 1st narrative, it was the media who is actually talking to NHL teams. So there is that too. It's not something brought out of thin air

 

[Habs Halifax]

Because he was the only top-4 right handed defenseman available for trade last year, and was 75% retained.

Their is much more available defenseman this year than last, and I'm pretty sure less 1st round picks available in the 2022 draft.

There appears to be more available D man available but they are not all created equal. Some more offensive than Chiarot yes.

People are going to assume me saying he gets the 1st for sure. I never been on that bandwagon but I can see where the media has come up with that. My price tag has been consistent, two 2nd's

Regardless of all the noise you hear, Chiarot is a playoff beast. A huge part of our shutdown ability and team D strategy in front of Price with playoff series wins against the Pens, Leafs, Jets, Knights. It was not all Price

 

[John Mandalorian]

Fair but you are assuming all those guys are available and equal. I would have Giordano and Chiarot as guys I would be targeting (physical types who can provide trust/maturity in their own end).

Why are people getting caught into a knot about "Could return a 1st". I don't think most Habs fans started the 1st narrative, it was the media who is actually talking to NHL teams. So there is that too. It's not something brought out of thin air

There's a difference between explaining why a team might want him at all and explaining why he's worth a first. Just because you explain why a team might want him, that doesn't mean you've explained why he's worth a first.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There's a difference between explaining why a team might want him at all and explaining why he's worth a first. Just because you explain why a team might want him, that doesn't mean you've explained why he's worth a first.

You are assuming things. My price tag has been two 2nd's well before the media brought up the 1st narrative. And the word "Could" has a meaning. It's not impossible he gets a late 1st but is it probable? I don't know... I'm not the one speaking to actual NHL managers.

Those of you are focused on Habs fans should turn your focus on reports who have actually spoken to NHL teams. Habs fans are not the ones who brought up the 1st narrative. We are only listening to respected reporters who brought this forward after talking to several teams.

Probably a fluid situation for a while yet

 

[rumrokh]

Giveaway leaders in the last two playoffs (min of 10 games). If you want to nit pick Chiarot in that area alone, lets look at others near him.

The majority of those players are significant offensive and puck-moving contributors, which is where those giveaways come from. When shutdown defenders are giving away the puck at the same rate, it's not a good thing.