Value of: Ben Chiarot can bring a 1st pick?

[Brixton]

This post is insane. You are literally writing some kind of bizarre fan fiction. I'm only including this one "quote" because it's truly mystifying that you have simply decided how things went, and then have gone the next step to present some kind of absurd dialogue exchange that you are just conjuring up to support the silly scenario you are offering up as if that somehow acts as the proof that what you are saying is accurate.

This is a deeply weird post.

So you think Chiarot really deserved to be playing top pairing minutes with Buff, when the Jets had Trouba, Morrissey, Myers, Kulikov. Hell even Joe Morrow was more trusted on his own that Chiarot. Look at the stats. Chiarot brought everyone number down. Buff was able to shelter him the most and make up for all his mistakes.

Same as Weber. No more Weber, chiarots suck and Habs fans say…just wait till the playoffs. Guess what unless Weber comes back and gets chained to Chiarot.there is no way anyone should give up anything closer se to a 1st for Chiarot.

The deeply weird post is yours cause what happened is clear as day. Time to take your head out of the sand. Unless you are in denial you must not watch a lot of hockey.

 

[admiralcadillac]

So you think Chiarot really deserved to be playing top pairing minutes with Buff, when the Jets had Trouba, Morrissey, Myers, Kulikov. Hell even Joe Morrow was more trusted on his own that Chiarot. Look at the stats. Chiarot brought everyone number down. Buff was able to shelter him the most and make up for all his mistakes.

Same as Weber. No more Weber, chiarots suck and Habs fans say…just wait till the playoffs. Guess what unless Weber comes back and gets chained to Chiarot.there is no way anyone should give up anything closer se to a 1st for Chiarot.

The deeply weird post is yours cause what happened is clear as day. Time to take your head out of the sand. Unless you are in denial you must not watch a lot of hockey.

That’s great bud but we’re talking about Chiarot with the team that made it to the finals and beat the team you’re talking about on the way there. As I recall it was 4 games and Chiarot played the third most minutes.

 

[Sota Popinski]

"Chiarot is currently projected to be an incredible detriment to any team that acquires him, worth minus-0.9 wins. That’s the fifth-lowest mark in the league and is driven by already being worth minus-1.2 wins this season in just 44 games. Only Keith Yandle has been worse."
16 Stats: Can anyone stop Colorado? Buyer beware for Ben Chiarot? And how about those surging Flames?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

"Chiarot is currently projected to be an incredible detriment to any team that acquires him, worth minus-0.9 wins. That’s the fifth-lowest mark in the league and is driven by already being worth minus-1.2 wins this season in just 44 games. Only Keith Yandle has been worse."
16 Stats: Can anyone stop Colorado? Buyer beware for Ben Chiarot? And how about those surging Flames?

OK-2 first round picks!

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Matthews didn't like playing against Chiarot thats for sure

 

[ole ole]

This is a commonly known story that has been going around Winnipeg since Chiarot signed in Montreal. I think it was from a clip from a speech from when one of the Jets (Mark Stuart maybe) got marrried.

Just like i thought, Basically you can't confirm any of it. Just repeating some rumor.

 

[RationalExpectations]

"Chiarot is currently projected to be an incredible detriment to any team that acquires him, worth minus-0.9 wins. That’s the fifth-lowest mark in the league and is driven by already being worth minus-1.2 wins this season in just 44 games. Only Keith Yandle has been worse."
16 Stats: Can anyone stop Colorado? Buyer beware for Ben Chiarot? And how about those surging Flames?

I hate those stats, they are made by people who have studied statistics but have forgotten general principles of statistics. These are descriptive stats used as explanatory stats. The issue is that you have a lot of endogenity in those models : if you are on a losing team, you're going to have poor advanced stats on average (of course always some exceptions but tell me who has a positive win expectation on the Habs while having played a lot of games)

That being said, I believe Chiarot is a nice complementary piece but useless on his won, so very useful to a contender with a PMD next to him or on a pure shutdown physical line only to be used in their D zone

 

[Breakers]

Dude sucks, and I would only trade future considerations at most for him.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Just like I thought, basic clown response from a Habs fan. Go look for the clip yourself if or just ask your mom. Just cause you can’t use google or make any kind of comeback on the facts I stated is not my issue. I asked multiple time do you think Chiarot was playing top line minutes with Buff because he deserved it, or cause he needs the best player to shield him. Not a peep from the circus.

You are not the brightest bulb in the string if you think that everything that happens with NHL players gets reported by some beat reporter. For every story that is written there are a hundred that no sports writer would be stupid enough to write and ruin any relationship with the team and players, This is one you will never see in Friedman column, just like the Kanes stories about rrestaurant bills, Buff not liking Kane, Bogosians pastimes,etc I guess those things didn’t happen? Keep trying to fool yourself cause the truth hurts your litttle feelings.

Typically those presenting claims should be the ones backing them up.

 

[Archijerej]

"Chiarot is currently projected to be an incredible detriment to any team that acquires him, worth minus-0.9 wins. That’s the fifth-lowest mark in the league and is driven by already being worth minus-1.2 wins this season in just 44 games. Only Keith Yandle has been worse."
16 Stats: Can anyone stop Colorado? Buyer beware for Ben Chiarot? And how about those surging Flames?

Aaaah, the good old Luszczyszyn.

How is Joel Edmundson, by the way. Still the worst defenceman in the league?

 

[Sota Popinski]

I hate those stats, they are made by people who have studied statistics but have forgotten general principles of statistics. These are descriptive stats used as explanatory stats. The issue is that you have a lot of endogenity in those models : if you are on a losing team, you're going to have poor advanced stats on average (of course always some exceptions but tell me who has a positive win expectation on the Habs while having played a lot of games)

That being said, I believe Chiarot is a nice complementary piece but useless on his won, so very useful to a contender with a PMD next to him or on a pure shutdown physical line only to be used in their D zone

You're acting like a defenseman whose stats are terrible and is making 3.5M isn't part of the reason the Habs are terrible.
Advanced stats take into account quality of competition and quality of teammates. But apparently Chiarot is the only player where stats are completely irrelevant.

"His stats in the playoffs are awful"
"Oh but his type of game is perfectly suited for the playoffs."

"His team's penalty differential when he is on the ice is horrendous."
"Yeah, but he actually commits even more penalties than he gets called for. That's effectiveness!"

"He's useless on his own."
"Yeah but if you play him next to a defenseman who's actually good, he's useful"

It's comical the lengths some people will go to defend this guy's poor play.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Aaaah, the good old Luszczyszyn.

How is Joel Edmundson, by the way. Still the worst defenceman in the league?

The post you quoted said Yandle is the worst. Slow down and read the whole post. You still have plenty of time to defend your awful team's awful defensemen

 

[RationalExpectations]

You're acting like a defenseman whose stats are terrible and is making 3.5M isn't part of the reason the Habs are terrible.
Advanced stats take into account quality of competition and quality of teammates. But apparently Chiarot is the only player where stats are completely irrelevant.

"His stats in the playoffs are awful"
"Oh but his type of game is perfectly suited for the playoffs."

"His team's penalty differential when he is on the ice is horrendous."
"Yeah, but he actually commits even more penalties than he gets called for. That's effectiveness!"

"He's useless on his own."
"Yeah but if you play him next to a defenseman who's actually good, he's useful"

It's comical the lengths some people will go to defend this guy's poor play.

Advanced stats are very volatile if not useless, by the way I take this example when I teach statistics about what NOT to do.

Just take the example of Chiarot, somebody posted the WAR for Chiarot : in three seasons he goes from 30% to 60% to 0% don't you see it is clearly linked to MTL's performance ? These variables are VERY endogenous. You think Chiarot is the sole reason for which MTL loses ?

By the way have I said he is the greatest Dman ever ? No. I have pointed out facts about what GM and coaches seem to like with him. Also you can compare him to Savard as a trade comp.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Advanced stats are very volatile if not useless, by the way I take this example when I teach statistics about what NOT to do.

Just take the example of Chiarot, somebody posted the WAR for Chiarot : in three seasons he goes from 30% to 60% to 0% don't you see it is clearly linked to MTL's performance ? These variables are VERY endogenous. You think Chiarot is the sole reason for which MTL loses ?

By the way have I said he is the greatest Dman ever ? No. I have pointed out facts about what GM and coaches seem to like with him. Also you can compare him to Savard as a trade comp.

Without Shea Weber’s help, Chiarot’s game has crumbled with a putrid 41.6 percent expected goals rate and an even uglier 31.6 percent of the actual goals. On a terrible team, both are somehow below the team average. For teams hoping for his ‘defensive’ prowess, no Canadiens defender gives up more chances against than Chiarot’s 3.08 expected goals against per 60.
On top of that Chiarot is a major risk at putting his team on the penalty kill due to his lack of foot speed and this season has a penalty differential of minus-14. On a per-60 basis, only three defenders have a worse rate over the last three seasons than Chiarot.

There have been comparisons made to Tampa Bay’s acquisition of David Savard last season as the blueprint for a Chiarot deal. Aside from that also being a wild overpayment, Savard at least had a stronger resume to fall back on despite also having a rough season prior. That kept his projected value afloat. Chiarot’s resume looks buoyed by one solid year in 2019-20 where he was stapled to a star defender. That’s not worth paying premium assets for.

 

[RationalExpectations]

There have been comparisons made to Tampa Bay’s acquisition of David Savard last season as the blueprint for a Chiarot deal. Aside from that also being a wild overpayment, Savard at least had a stronger resume to fall back on despite also having a rough season prior. That kept his projected value afloat. Chiarot’s resume looks buoyed by one solid year in 2019-20 where he was stapled to a star defender. That’s not worth paying premium assets for.

And that's my argument, it will also keep his value afloat because he is seen as big physical net who efficiently protects the crease. Let's see who is right

 

[Sota Popinski]

And that's my argument, it will also keep his value afloat because he is seen as big physical net who efficiently protects the crease. Let's see who is right

Your argument is that stats don't matter, because you don't like what they say. Which is hilarious coming from a stats professor. You just moved the goalposts because your BS statement that 'his stats are bad because he's on a bad team' was proven wrong and you don't want to acknowledge that you're wrong about that too

 

[Habs Halifax]

"Chiarot is currently projected to be an incredible detriment to any team that acquires him, worth minus-0.9 wins. That’s the fifth-lowest mark in the league and is driven by already being worth minus-1.2 wins this season in just 44 games. Only Keith Yandle has been worse."
16 Stats: Can anyone stop Colorado? Buyer beware for Ben Chiarot? And how about those surging Flames?

Typical HF boards. The possible 1st comes out from members of the media who have spoken to some teams and fans see the 1st and then make attempts to totally devalue Chiarot and ignore any counter context along the way.

Lets me guess, Chiarot is not even worth a 3rd rounder eh. He was not a huge part of the Habs top 4D in series wins against the Pens, Leafs, Jets, and Knights and the members of the media who have spoken to teams don't know know what they are talking about and you do.

Ripple effects to the Habs bad season means nothing towards Chiarot right? Got cha

 

[Habs Halifax]

Your argument is that stats don't matter, because you don't like what they say. Which is hilarious coming from a stats professor. You just moved the goalposts because your BS statement that 'his stats are bad because he's on a bad team' was proven wrong and you don't want to acknowledge that you're wrong about that too

I think you like what Brodie brings to the table for the Leafs and Chiarot is a bigger body and I'll make the argument that his skating is better. The 1st narratives has distracted people by a wide margin in terms of what Chiarot actually brings to the table. Classic HF boards... the value asking price or narrative turns some posters into attack mode and deflation on his actual game.

Brodie
12 pts with 3 goals in 47 games (Leafs with the 4th most goals this season so far)

Chiarot
9 pts with 5 goals in 44 games (Habs with the 2nd last most goals this season so far).

Go look at hits/60 and blocks/60 and PIM and if you think Chiarot sucks, so does Brodie. Does the extra 3 pts with 2 less goals on a team that has more offense turn the needle for you?

 

[Sota Popinski]

Typical HF boards. The possible 1st comes out from members of the media who have spoken to some teams and fans see the 1st and then make attempts to totally devalue Chiarot and ignore any counter context along the way.

Lets me guess, Chiarot is not even worth a 3rd rounder eh. He was not a huge part of the Habs top 4D in series wins against the Pens, Leafs, Jets, and Knights and the members of the media who have spoken to teams don't know know what they are talking about and you do.

Ripple effects to the Habs bad season means nothing towards Chiarot right? Got cha

The Habs were bad last year, too! They were lucky to even be in the playoffs. What changed? Shea Weber is gone. Chiarot has been exposed again as a passenger. Lebrun and Dreger are wrong all the time. They get news to break because they put out this dreck on behalf of front office people trying to increase the value of their player. We can go through the past 20 times these guys have speculated on where a guy gets moved or for how much and I bet they don't even hit on 20%

 

[Habs Halifax]

The Habs were bad last year, too! They were lucky to even be in the playoffs. What changed? Shea Weber is gone. Chiarot has been exposed again as a passenger. Lebrun and Dreger are wrong all the time. They get news to break because they put out this dreck on behalf of front office people trying to increase the value of their player. We can go through the past 20 times these guys have speculated on where a guy gets moved or for how much and I bet they don't even hit on 20%

Nah, Habs were not bad last year. They were a bubble team that sneaked in and their roster was build for the playoffs. Do we beat the Leafs if Tavares and Muzzin didn't get hurt. Probably not but they had a good team that played like a team and you don't go on a run like that with luck only. Nice try

Chiarot = Brodie. Very close in value for what you get on the ice in terms of reliabity, hits/60, blocks/60 and if you think Chiarot takes too much penalties, go look at Brodie's numbers. If you like Brodie, you should like Chiarot. Don't let the 1st narrative send you down a rabbit hole. Members of the media started the 1st narrative, not Habs fans. Reality

 

[Sota Popinski]

I think you like what Brodie brings to the table for the Leafs and Chiarot is a bigger body and I'll make the argument that his skating is better. The 1st narratives has distracted people by a wide margin in terms of what Chiarot actually brings to the table. Classic HF boards... the value asking price or narrative turns some posters into attack mode and deflation on his actual game.

Brodie
12 pts with 3 goals in 47 games (Leafs with the 4th most goals this season so far)

Chiarot
9 pts with 5 goals in 44 games (Habs with the 2nd last most goals this season so far).

Go look at hits/60 and blocks/60 and PIM and if you think Chiarot sucks, so does Brodie. Does the extra 3 pts with 2 less goals on a team that has more offense turn the needle for you?

I am a Wild fan. Don't care about the Habs, Leafs or Brodie. But I imagine there is no fan that will be happy about their team's GM trading a 1st for Chiarot.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I am a Wild fan. Don't care about the Habs, Leafs or Brodie. But I imagine there is no fan that will be happy about their team's GM trading a 1st for Chiarot.

OK sure. Where is your Brodie comment or are you going to ignore that cause you are a Wild fan? Look at the numbers.

BTW, my price was always two 2nd's... well before the media started the 1st narrative. But go ahead, try to trash Chiarot's game and pretend that the interest in him is unfounded and you know better... cause you are a Wild fan.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Nah, Habs were not bad last year. They were a bubble team that sneaked in and their roster was build for the playoffs. Do we beat the Leafs if Tavares and Muzzin didn't get hurt. Probably not but they had a good team that played like a team and you don't go on a run like that with luck only. Nice try

Chiarot = Brodie. Very close in value for what you get on the ice in terms of reliabity, hits/60, blocks/60 and if you think Chiarot takes too much penalties, go look at Brodie's numbers. If you like Brodie, you should like Chiarot. Don't let the 1st narrative send you down a rabbit hole. Members of the media started the 1st narrative, not Habs fans. Reality

They won 24 of 56 games. That's a .428 winning percentage. That's bad.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Your argument is that stats don't matter, because you don't like what they say. Which is hilarious coming from a stats professor. You just moved the goalposts because your BS statement that 'his stats are bad because he's on a bad team' was proven wrong and you don't want to acknowledge that you're wrong about that too

What how did you prove it ? You think stats are NOT dependent on team's performance ? If so, please go back to school.

 

[Habs Halifax]

They won 24 of 56 games. That's a .428 winning percentage. That's bad.

So what. Bubble team that made the playoffs and their roster was built for the playoffs with a healthy Price. They also dealt with injuries down the stretch. What's your point? They won 3 playoff series on Price alone by himself? The Habs top 4D with Chiarot in that mix playing 24 min a game means nothing? Come on man. Go somewhere else with your Habs jabs.

What does the Habs regular season record last year and even this year have anything to do with Chiarot and what he can do for a team looking to go on a playoff run?

Why are you here? To throw the Habs under the bus? That's kind of obsessive don't you think.