Value of: Ben Chiarot can bring a 1st pick?

[Sota Popinski]

OK sure. Where is your Brodie comment or are you going to ignore that cause you are a Wild fan? Look at the numbers.

BTW, my price was always two 2nd's... well before the media started the 1st narrative. But go ahead, try to trash Chiarot's game and pretend that the interest in him is unfounded and you know better... cause you are a Wild fan.

I never mentioned TJ Brodie. I have no idea why you are bringing him up.

I'm sure there is interest. I'm not saying I know better than insiders about that. I'm saying any GM that trades a 1st for Chiarot is a moron

 

[Habs Halifax]

I never mentioned TJ Brodie. I have no idea why you are bringing him up.

I'm sure there is interest. I'm not saying I know better than insiders about that. I'm saying any GM that trades a 1st for Chiarot is a moron

Brodie is a counter argument to the "Stats don't matter" narrative. Pay attention

Personally, I would avoid the "Moron" comments.

 

[Sota Popinski]

What how did you prove it ? You think stats are NOT dependent on team's performance ? If so, please go back to school.

Because the stats you are deriding take into account quality of competition and quality of teammates. The team being bad is already accounted for in the stats. You can't then use the team being bad as an excuse to ignore the stats.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Because the stats you are deriding take into account quality of competition and quality of teammates. The team being bad is already accounted for in the stats. You can't then use the team being bad as an excuse to ignore the stats.

That's bullshit. Wins Above Replacement: The Process (Part 2) that's how WAR is calculated. They mention that it highly relies on statistic assumption such as expected distribution / fit of the linear level. They mention they do a team's adjustment in order to try to account for team performance. However at no point, they mention endogeneity of the team's performance on a player's performance, which is a key statistical concept. Don't play stats with me cause you won't win.

 

[Price is Wright]

It doesn't surprise me that people doubt Chiarot getting a first round pick. People here don't try to think like an NHL GM. They try to think like if they were an NHL GM as a message board poster. So it's never about what everyone is actually doing in the league but what they would do in a magic hypothetical.

Tampa spent a first round pick to get David Savard and won a Stanley Cup. David Savard never should have cost a first round pick. GM's don't think like you.

Everyone wants to be "hard to play against" in the playoffs. Chiarot got that reputation last year. It doesn't matter about his stats. It's the reputation. They are paying that first for his reputation. Montreal will get that first rounder. Plus. And you'll hate it. As you should. But GM's are not you.

 

[Remparts666]

I havent read 19 pages but if david savard could fetch a 1st and more, chiarot CAN absolutely bring a 1st. Now I do understand why you fans would not lilke your favorite team to pay that price. In the end, deep down, you probably all know this is the most likely outcome

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

I havent read 19 pages but if david savard could fetch a 1st and more, chiarot CAN absolutely bring a 1st. Now I do understand why you fans would not lilke your favorite team to pay that price. In the end, deep down, you probably all know this is the most likely outcome

I believe he will get a first at the deadline, but the question is how effective will Chiarot be on a good team but without Shea Weber as a d partner. Thats the gambit.

 

[ToDavid]

Aaaah, the good old Luszczyszyn.

How is Joel Edmundson, by the way. Still the worst defenceman in the league?

You’re right, the Habs defensemen are actually very good. That’s why the team barely ever gets scored on.

 

[Archijerej]

You’re right, the Habs defensemen are actually very good. That’s why the team barely ever gets scored on.

Yep. Joel Edmundson hasn't been on the ice for a single goal against this season. Fact!

 

[Brixton]

This threat just keeps getting more hilarious with every post…thanks Habs fans.

Habs were a bad team last year with a .428 win record.
Habs fans response…no they weren’t.

Here are the stats to show how bad Chiarot is
Habs fans response…advanced stats are BS …and don’t talk stats with me because you will lose …(that’s my favourite but shhh better not tell NHL teams that because they all use advanced stats)

No way Chiarot gets a 1st
Habs fan response….Savard got a 1st last year.

The market for dmen was different last year.. Savard was THE top one available last year and he was traded at 25% salary. There are way more dman available this year and Chiarot is not even in the top 10.
Habs fans response…ya no way, who is better?

Klingberg, mason, Giirdano, subban, letang, lindholm, ristolainen, dehaan, miller, Murray, …the list goes on and on.
Habs fan reaction….Chiarot is better than player X

no he isn’t look at the stats
Habs response…advanced stats are BS, believe me I took a stats class one time.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This threat just keeps getting more hilarious with every post…thanks Habs fans.

Habs were a bad team last year with a .428 win record.
Habs fans response…no they weren’t.

Here are the stats to show how bad Chiarot is
Habs fans response…advanced stats are BS …and don’t talk stats with me because you will lose …(that’s my favourite but shhh better not tell NHL teams that because they all use advanced stats)

No way Chiarot gets a 1st
Habs fan response….Savard got a 1st last year.

The market for dmen was different last year.. Savard was THE top one available last year and he was traded at 25% salary. There are way more dman available this year and Chiarot is not even in the top 10.
Habs fans response…ya no way, who is better?

Klingberg, mason, Giirdano, subban, letang, lindholm, ristolainen, dehaan, miller, Murray, …the list goes on and on.
Habs fan reaction….Chiarot is better than player X

no he isn’t look at the stats
Habs response…advanced stats are BS, believe me I took a stats class one time.

You're not debating in good faith. Your obsessed with the Habs fan base and overlooking the part where the media brought up the "possible 1st" narrative. I'm not sure if he gets us a 1st or not but if he does, this one is going to back fire on you.

Bookmarked and you deserve it if it backfires on you.

 

[Brixton]

This threat just keeps getting more hilarious with every post…thanks Habs fans.

Habs were a bad team last year with a .428 win record.
Habs fans response…no they weren’t.

Here are the stats to show how bad Chiarot is
Habs fans response…advanced stats are BS …and don’t talk stats with me because you will lose …(that’s my favourite but shhh better not tell NHL teams that because they all use advanced stats)

No way Chiarot gets a 1st
Habs fan response….Savard got a 1st last year.

The market for dmen was different last year.. Savard was THE top one available last year and he was traded at 25% salary. There are way more dman available this year and Chiarot is not even in the top 10.
Habs fans response…ya no way, who is better?

Klingberg, mason, Giirdano, subban, letang, lindholm, ristolainen, dehaan, miller, Murray, the list goes on.
Habs response…didn’t we beat your team last year (the common response when you have no legs to stand on in a debate)

Habs fans response….your just saying that cause everyone hates the Habs.
HF response… no it cause it is true and we don’t hate the Habs but we hate their fans that make stupid statements that shows they know shit.


Keep it coming Habs fans this is great entertainment.

 

[Habs Halifax]

One area I am looking at when I put myself in the Leafs shoes is I doubt Dubas dares to trade a 1st for Chiarot due to the backlash he gets from the fans. Set aside what Chiarot is actually worth in terms of a the deadline narrative but I can certainly see Dubas calling to inquire but not sure he makes that move.

From what I see, it's just Dubas exploring his options and wondering if he can figure something out with the Habs. There is a lot of talk going on and there is a lot more to come.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This threat just keeps getting more hilarious with every post…thanks Habs fans.

Habs were a bad team last year with a .428 win record.
Habs fans response…no they weren’t.

Here are the stats to show how bad Chiarot is
Habs fans response…advanced stats are BS …and don’t talk stats with me because you will lose …(that’s my favourite but shhh better not tell NHL teams that because they all use advanced stats)

No way Chiarot gets a 1st
Habs fan response….Savard got a 1st last year.

The market for dmen was different last year.. Savard was THE top one available last year and he was traded at 25% salary. There are way more dman available this year and Chiarot is not even in the top 10.
Habs fans response…ya no way, who is better?

Klingberg, mason, Giirdano, subban, letang, lindholm, ristolainen, dehaan, miller, Murray, the list goes on.
Habs response…didn’t we beat your team last year (the common response when you have no legs to stand on in a debate)

Habs fans response….your just saying that cause everyone hates the Habs.
HF response… no it cause it is true and we don’t hate the Habs but we hate their fans that make stupid statements that shows they know shit.


Keep it coming Habs fans this is great entertainment.

The only thing hilarious is your attitude

 

[Captain Mountain]

This threat just keeps getting more hilarious with every post…thanks Habs fans.

Habs were a bad team last year with a .428 win record.
Habs fans response…no they weren’t.

Here are the stats to show how bad Chiarot is
Habs fans response…advanced stats are BS …and don’t talk stats with me because you will lose …(that’s my favourite but shhh better not tell NHL teams that because they all use advanced stats)

No way Chiarot gets a 1st
Habs fan response….Savard got a 1st last year.

The market for dmen was different last year.. Savard was THE top one available last year and he was traded at 25% salary. There are way more dman available this year and Chiarot is not even in the top 10.
Habs fans response…ya no way, who is better?

Klingberg, mason, Giirdano, subban, letang, lindholm, ristolainen, dehaan, miller, Murray, the list goes on.
Habs response…didn’t we beat your team last year (the common response when you have no legs to stand on in a debate)

Habs fans response….your just saying that cause everyone hates the Habs.
HF response… no it cause it is true and we don’t hate the Habs but we hate their fans that make stupid statements that shows they know shit.


Keep it coming Habs fans this is great entertainment.

I'm not going to defend all Habs fans, but I absolutely love it when posters like this go on a rant and unintentionally contradict or de-legitimize their argument.

 

[Seanaconda]

I havent read 19 pages but if david savard could fetch a 1st and more, chiarot CAN absolutely bring a 1st. Now I do understand why you fans would not lilke your favorite team to pay that price. In the end, deep down, you probably all know this is the most likely outcome

I think Savards reputation at the time was a lot higher but that's just my opinion ,

 

[Curufinwe]

It doesn't surprise me that people doubt Chiarot getting a first round pick. People here don't try to think like an NHL GM. They try to think like if they were an NHL GM as a message board poster. So it's never about what everyone is actually doing in the league but what they would do in a magic hypothetical.

Tampa spent a first round pick to get David Savard and won a Stanley Cup. David Savard never should have cost a first round pick. GM's don't think like you.

Everyone wants to be "hard to play against" in the playoffs. Chiarot got that reputation last year. It doesn't matter about his stats. It's the reputation. They are paying that first for his reputation. Montreal will get that first rounder. Plus. And you'll hate it. As you should. But GM's are not you.

Braun is this year's Savard, not Chiarot.

 

[Mersss]

This threat just keeps getting more hilarious with every post…thanks Habs fans.

Habs were a bad team last year with a .428 win record.
Habs fans response…no they weren’t.

Here are the stats to show how bad Chiarot is
Habs fans response…advanced stats are BS …and don’t talk stats with me because you will lose …(that’s my favourite but shhh better not tell NHL teams that because they all use advanced stats)

No way Chiarot gets a 1st
Habs fan response….Savard got a 1st last year.

The market for dmen was different last year.. Savard was THE top one available last year and he was traded at 25% salary. There are way more dman available this year and Chiarot is not even in the top 10.
Habs fans response…ya no way, who is better?

Klingberg, mason, Giirdano, subban, letang, lindholm, ristolainen, dehaan, miller, Murray, the list goes on.
Habs response…didn’t we beat your team last year (the common response when you have no legs to stand on in a debate)

Habs fans response….your just saying that cause everyone hates the Habs.
HF response… no it cause it is true and we don’t hate the Habs but we hate their fans that make stupid statements that shows they know shit.


Keep it coming Habs fans this is great entertainment.

Miller
De Haan
Murray
Risto
Subban

Aren't better AT ALL, and most of them come with a bigger $$ amount

Letang and Klingberg will remain with their team as long as they are in the playoff picture

Leaves Giordano and Lindholm.

And come playoffs tine where whistle aren't blowing at all, Chiarot can be as effective as Gio, and comes in younger to.

And Lindholm will run your team for a 1st pick and your top prospect

At the end of the day, the market isn't THAT big for stront big bodied Dman who hurt people

 

[Habs Halifax]

Braun is this year's Savard, not Chiarot.

Braun, Chiarot, and Girodano are 3 guys many teams can use to eat up minutes who have shown reliability. Who returns more? Not sure and I'm not playing that game. It's just your typical deadline where buyers trying to buy low and sellers trying to sell high.

Chiarot is the youngest with the best size/physicality/skating package and is coming off solid playoff performances. Reality and this interest is not coming out of nowhere

 

[Habs Halifax]

The Chiarot trade and what he returns (low or high) is going to blow up HF boards. . Get ready for it people and the "I told you so" narratives are going to come out in bunches.

 

[Hunter368]

The Chiarot trade and what he returns (low or high) is going to blow up HF boards. . Get ready for it people and the "I told you so" narratives are going to come out in bunches.

There will be a whole bunch of crow being served to some people soon one way or the other. HFB might see a dip of people online b/c those people are hiding. haha

 

[thusk]

This threat just keeps getting more hilarious with every post…thanks Habs fans.

Habs were a bad team last year with a .428 win record.
Habs fans response…no they weren’t.

Here are the stats to show how bad Chiarot is
Habs fans response…advanced stats are BS …and don’t talk stats with me because you will lose …(that’s my favourite but shhh better not tell NHL teams that because they all use advanced stats)

No way Chiarot gets a 1st
Habs fan response….Savard got a 1st last year.

The market for dmen was different last year.. Savard was THE top one available last year and he was traded at 25% salary. There are way more dman available this year and Chiarot is not even in the top 10.
Habs fans response…ya no way, who is better?

Klingberg, mason, Giirdano, subban, letang, lindholm, ristolainen, dehaan, miller, Murray, the list goes on.
Habs response…didn’t we beat your team last year (the common response when you have no legs to stand on in a debate)

Habs fans response….your just saying that cause everyone hates the Habs.
HF response… no it cause it is true and we don’t hate the Habs but we hate their fans that make stupid statements that shows they know shit.


Keep it coming Habs fans this is great entertainment.

2 tlthings im not agree,

1- chiarot is in top 6 in dman this season.

2- avanced stats dont tell everything, you need to know how to use it... a guy playing against top opposite line will get worst avanced stats than a player playing on a 3rd pairing... so you cant only watch avanced stats, you need to understand the context around the player.

And yes playing 60% of the time with weber or byfuglien help to look better but its the case for every #4-5 dman, they always gonna look better with a better partner but like you said montreal was not a great team, so its an other thing you need to keep in mind too. You dont play hockey at 2 player, its always a 5v5 .

But yes im agree than a season like this one, i will be surprising to see chiarot being trade for a 1st

 

[Breakers]

No idea why Habs fans are so sensitive to Chiarot

you guys should be happy that teams are actually willing to trade for this piece of trash, and from what it sounds like willing to give serious assets for him. Embrace it

I mean He’s that bad.

 

[thusk]

Miller
De Haan
Murray
Risto
Subban

Aren't better AT ALL, and most of them come with a bigger $$ amount

Letang and Klingberg will remain with their team as long as they are in the playoff picture

Leaves Giordano and Lindholm.

And come playoffs tine where whistle aren't blowing at all, Chiarot can be as effective as Gio, and comes in younger to.

And Lindholm will run your team for a 1st pick and your top prospect

At the end of the day, the market isn't THAT big for stront big bodied Dman who hurt people

Name me the last player traded against a 1st and a top prospect... mark stone resigned didnt give that much...lindholm will give a 1st + b prospect.

Maybe klinberg can give a 1st pick but after those 2 d ... i dont see any def separatbe himself of the rest of the group to get a 1st...

 

[BatVader]

If Chiarot returns a 1st+, I get chills thinking of what Scheifele would return