Player Discussion Artem Zub (D) Part 2 [Extended 4 years @ $4.6M]

[GCK]

Chabot makes $10 mill starting on 2024 - I’d consider trading him to free up money to keep x2 $5mill players.

Brann is better on the PP, Sanderson should be the minutes guy…

These are the tough decisions a low revenue team needs to make.

Nope. The tough decisions are how to increase revenue. Perhaps moving on and letting someone else try.

 

[Sweatred]

Nope. The tough decisions are how to increase revenue. Perhaps moving on and letting someone else try.

That may be your preference but in no way is Melynk’s hand forced to move on.

Selling off Chabot stings but if it’s not Chabot it will Zub+Pinto or whatever - all teams have to make those decisions now.

 

[GCK]

That may be your preference but in no way is Melynk’s hand forced to move on.

Selling off Chabot stings but if it’s not Chabot it will Zub+Pinto or whatever - all teams have to make those decisions now.

For cap reasons other teams do it. Bad business decisions and poor relationship management is not a cap issue.

 

[coladin]

Has his play slipped of late? I feel it has, which is concerning somewhat. More mistakes than ever which is uncharacteristic. Perhaps it is just the Chabot effect, but clearly still a top 4 on this team

 

[Sweatred]

For cap reasons other teams do it. Bad business decisions and poor relationship management is not a cap issue.

Moving away from aging high priced players is hardly always a bad business decision. There probably is more evidence the other way …

Trading away multiple young cost controlled players to keep one aging replaceable player could be the bad business decesion.

The EK trade thread has 4000 posts that shoudl frame this for us.

 

[GCK]

Moving away from aging high priced players is hardly always a bad business decision. There probably is more evidence the other way …

Trading away multiple young cost controlled players to keep one aging replaceable player could be the bad business decesion.

The EK trade thread has 4000 posts that shoudl frame this for us.

Those aren’t the bad business decisions I was referring to.

 

[Sweatred]

Has his play slipped of late? I feel it has, which is concerning somewhat. More mistakes than ever which is uncharacteristic. Perhaps it is just the Chabot effect, but clearly still a top 4 on this team

Yes - it has slipped.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Has his play slipped of late? I feel it has, which is concerning somewhat. More mistakes than ever which is uncharacteristic. Perhaps it is just the Chabot effect, but clearly still a top 4 on this team

Definitely slipped but he is still the most impactful player on the team.

a big reason why we have been doing decent is goaltending but also because the opposing teams best players have to go up against Zub.

McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin, etc all had below average (for them) games going up against Zub.

I have not watched the league enough this season to say if he is the best matchup defenceman, but he certainly has to be one of the best.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Definitely slipped but he is still the most impactful player on the team.

a big reason why we have been doing decent is goaltending but also because the opposing teams best players have to go up against Zub.

McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin, etc all had below average (for them) games going up against Zub.

I have not watched the league enough this season to say if he is the best matchup defenceman, but he certainly has to be one of the best.

Matchups, really depend on who is the home team.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Definitely slipped but he is still the most impactful player on the team.

a big reason why we have been doing decent is goaltending but also because the opposing teams best players have to go up against Zub.

McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin, etc all had below average (for them) games going up against Zub.

I have not watched the league enough this season to say if he is the best matchup defenceman, but he certainly has to be one of the best.

I really like Zub and I wouldn't consider him even top 5 in that category.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

I really like Zub and I wouldn't consider him even top 5 in that category.

Really who are your top 5?

You cannot be a good team unless you have good defense and Zub is our best defensive player and our hardest player to play against. His play gives the whole team stability even if it doesn't translate to many points.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Really who are your top 5?

You cannot be a good team unless you have good defense and Zub is our best defensive player and our hardest player to play against. His play gives the whole team stability even if it doesn't translate to many points.

Stuetzle, Brady, Batherson, Norris and Chabot, then Zub.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Stuetzle, Brady, Batherson, Norris and Chabot, then Zub.

I meant more of the players playing right now.

but even accounting everyone and with how our team is built and plays. Zub injury would be the biggest loss on the roster after Chabot. We don't score a lot so being able to grind teams is how we are able to stay in it. Zub and his play against opposing stars is a big basis of being able to successfully grind these contests.

I can see the arguments for the others players especially Bath, but take out Zub from the team and we are a much much worse defensive team. And if you're a bad defensive team, you aren't a good team period.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Stuetzle, Brady, Batherson, Norris and Chabot, then Zub.

Yup, this list. I'd also include C. Brown because he's as vital defensively and far better offensively and even Murray gets the nod in terms of impact, as we've seen bad goaltending = no chance to win. I can't imagine it'll be long before Pinto is considered more impactful too. No offense to Zub but has he even been more impactful than Holden this year? Very good player all the same but calling him the most impactful player on the team is kind of nuts.

 

[Big Muddy]

Really who are your top 5?

You cannot be a good team unless you have good defense and Zub is our best defensive player and our hardest player to play against. His play gives the whole team stability even if it doesn't translate to many points.

Stuetzle, Brady, Batherson, Norris and Chabot, then Zub.

Good discussion.

Just as something to consider or debate, Zub's TOI/G is 2nd highest on the team at 21:35 trailing only Chabot obviously.

DJ plays Zub a lot in any situation it seems. The stats seem to bear out that the team depends on Zub a lot.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Good discussion.

Just as something to consider or debate, Zub's TOI/G is 2nd highest on the team at 21:35 trailing only Chabot obviously.

DJ plays Zub a lot in any situation it seems. The stats seem to bear out that the team depends on Zub a lot.

Counter to that: what would you say about Zaitsev playing more than Stutzle and Formenton? What would you say about Holden and Brannstrom playing more than Tkachuk, Norris and Batherson?

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Counter to that: what would you say about Zaitsev playing more than Stutzle and Formenton? What would you say about Holden and Brannstrom playing more than Tkachuk, Norris and Batherson?

Batherson and Norris get injured Brady, Formenton, Brown, Stutzle, Paul step up.

Zub gets injured who steps up? Who else do we have that can go toe to toe with guys like Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid and actually be able to hold their own. Even Chabot is not suited to the role as it's not his game. Holden has been amazing but a big part of that is that he mostly has to worry about second tier competition. We saw what happened when he had to face Malkin.

Zub is a massive part of why this team has been competitive.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Has his play slipped of late? I feel it has, which is concerning somewhat. More mistakes than ever which is uncharacteristic. Perhaps it is just the Chabot effect, but clearly still a top 4 on this team

He's being asked to play extremely tough minutes (even more now with Chabot out) with a extremely tough schedule. The guy is getting slammed into the boards by forecheckers 20+ minutes a night, every other night. He's probably fatigued and banged up.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Chabot makes $10 mill starting on 2024 - I’d consider trading him to free up money to keep x2 $5mill players.

Brann is better on the PP, Sanderson projects as the minutes guy…

These are the tough decisions a low revenue team needs to make and a trade for x5 assets could carry the team another 5+ years (see EK trade).

This is factually incorrect, par for the course for you.

Florida, who historically has earned less revenue still found a way to pay Ekblad $9m, Bobrovsky 12M, and next year Barkov $10M.

Low revenue teams aren't forced to make those decisions. It's poor owners that choose to make those decisions.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Batherson and Norris get injured Brady, Formenton, Brown, Stutzle, Paul step up.

Zub gets injured who steps up? Who else do we have that can go toe to toe with guys like Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid and actually be able to hold their own. Even Chabot is not suited to the role as it's not his game. Holden has been amazing but a big part of that is that he mostly has to worry about second tier competition. We saw what happened when he had to face Malkin.

Zub is a massive part of why this team has been competitive.

I mean you say "step up" but step up to what? Our goals per game is down, our PP went from middle of the pack before Norris' injury to last in the league since then, our puck possession time is down and our high danger scoring chances are down. Essentially, our offense has disintegrated in front of our eyes.
And the assertion that no one but Zub can play a shut down role on this team? Like shutting down the opposition is one man's job? I can't even bother anymore. The worst thing in all this is you make it seem like there's only two sides to this discussion - you either believe Zub is the most impactful player on the team or you think he's garbage. Him being 6th or 7th isn't good enough, it must automatically make the person you're talking to believe that Zub sucks.

 

[Sweatred]

This is factually incorrect, par for the course for you.

Florida, who historically has earned less revenue still found a way to pay Ekblad $9m, Bobrovsky 12M, and next year Barkov $10M.

Low revenue teams aren't forced to make those decisions. It's poor owners that choose to make those decisions.

Flordia has an owner willing to lose 10’s of millions…. He’s the unicorn … not the norm in the league. Id suggest you use better evidence to support your accusation. Our owner isn’t going lose $30 mill a year to get us to the cap ceiling.

Our owner currently loses more money than most owners.

This teams projects to out cost both our internal budget and salary cap. Happens everywhere and someone will have to go. It just depends if the Sens want to move 2-3 middle earners or a top earner.

Winnipeg should be a good model for us - they have the richest owner in the league and he loses about $5 more a year than us. For all his faults Geener’s loses are realistic and he spends a greater % of revenue of player salaries than most of the league.

 

[bert]

Yes, Zaitsev is off the books by the time they need to pay Sanderson. My point was related to Zub though. If they're paying Sanderson and Chabot big money, is their room to pay Zub 5+ a year? I'm talking in 23-24. That's when he needs a new deal. That's 110 games from now and jbd and Thomson should be ready to enter their primes.

I'm not knocking Zub. I'm looking at chess pieces on the board. I just don't think it's a foregone conclusion that we sign him long term, nor is it a foregone conclusion that we need to

This team needs a physical d man plus Zub. If they have to make a choice as to who to pay Zub or Thomson/JBD then the choice should be Zub. You need hard players to play against especially on the back end.

 

[Loach]

Is 4.5 - 5m × 4 years doable for Zub? Methot's last contract was 4.9m. Is that a fair comparison?

 

[JD1]

Counter to that: what would you say about Zaitsev playing more than Stutzle and Formenton? What would you say about Holden and Brannstrom playing more than Tkachuk, Norris and Batherson?

Personally I'd say

120 minutes of hockey divided by 6 D is 20 minutes a night on average

180 minutes of hockey a night divided by 12 Fs is 15 minutes a night on average

Defencemen get more ice time

 

[JD1]

This team needs a physical d man plus Zub. If they have to make a choice as to who to pay Zub or Thomson/JBD then the choice should be Zub. You need hard players to play against especially on the back end.

And you see no way that those other players grow into anything more valuable than Zub?