Around the NHL 2022-2023 *Mod warning in effect pg145

[oPlaiD]

So I would imagine the abuse of the salary cap is going to get fixed very soon, but is it a good or bad thing that a team just 6 years into their existence have been able to go to the finals twice and win a cup? Credit to the Knights for showing up but I have a tough time seeing this as a good thing for the league.

I think it's a good thing that a team was able to win a Stanley Cup in the modern salary cap era without tanking for high draft picks and instead building the team through trade acquisitions and free agents.

Yeah, maybe the expansion draft gave them some bonuses, but that franchise had to do a lot of work and make a lot of moves to reach this point, so good on them. Also gives me... not exactly hope, but at least acknowledgement of the possibility that maybe Armstrong could do something similar.

And I'm not sure it's good for the league to default to the setting where expansion teams are just supposed to suck because they are expansion teams. It's probably beneficial for the future of the league that new teams are given some advantages to build fanbases early on so we have a better chance to avoid some of the situations going on in other places...

 

[Majorityof1]

So I would imagine the abuse of the salary cap is going to get fixed very soon, but is it a good or bad thing that a team just 6 years into their existence have been able to go to the finals twice and win a cup? Credit to the Knights for showing up but I have a tough time seeing this as a good thing for the league.

I don't know if it so much a salary cap issue. They were definitely compliant with no BS their first year. And this year, I don't think they pulled any Shenanigans. LAst year they did to fit Eichel using IR, but they didn't even make the playoffs cause they had players on IR.

I think they got lucky with teams making bad decisions in the expansion draft. Getting Theodore, Smith, and Marchessault in the expansion draft helped in year 1. And being mercenary with their players, as people lambast them for, got them there this year. Like it or not, Petro, Stone and Eichel were huge this year and they don't have those guys without shipping out the other players/prospects.

 

[stl76]

So I would imagine the abuse of the salary cap is going to get fixed very soon, but is it a good or bad thing that a team just 6 years into their existence have been able to go to the finals twice and win a cup? Credit to the Knights for showing up but I have a tough time seeing this as a good thing for the league.

How would it be a bad thing for the league? Sure isn't going to lower expansion fees for new teams with the league foolishly expands to 34 teams...

 

[BluesAL]

We can't really debate what ifs because the left side would've been god awful, Parayko and Faulk were vital in that run and one of them likely would've been traded, who knows if we have Buchnevich, I mean there's a laundry list of things that may or may not have happened.

Petro would’ve been just as good as Faulk if not better and the weakness on the left is overstated. There was enough talent - Walman, Perunovich, Rosen, Mikkola, Scandella… But agree we can’t debate the what ifs. My point is that having Petro extends our window by years. He’s a gamer and a winner and we obviously have missed him since he has left. He’s lifting the cup again and the Blues are crossing their fingers that the window hasn’t closed.

 

[67Blues]

So how long before some stupid GMs take on bad Vegas contracts for draft picks so Vegas can aggressively pursue Matthews?

 

[ezcreepin]

I think it's a good thing that a team was able to win a Stanley Cup in the modern salary cap era without tanking for high draft picks and instead building the team through trade acquisitions and free agents.

Yeah, maybe the expansion draft gave them some bonuses, but that franchise had to do a lot of work and make a lot of moves to reach this point, so good on them. Also gives me... not exactly hope, but at least acknowledgement of the possibility that maybe Armstrong could do something similar.

And I'm not sure it's good for the league to default to the setting where expansion teams are just supposed to suck because they are expansion teams. It's probably beneficial for the future of the league that new teams are given some advantages to build fanbases early on so we have a better chance to avoid some of the situations going on in other places...

I don't know if it so much a salary cap issue. They were definitely compliant with no BS their first year. And this year, I don't think they pulled any Shenanigans. LAst year they did to fit Eichel using IR, but they didn't even make the playoffs cause they had players on IR.

I think they got lucky with teams making bad decisions in the expansion draft. Getting Theodore, Smith, and Marchessault in the expansion draft helped in year 1. And being mercenary with their players, as people lambast them for, got them there this year. Like it or not, Petro, Stone and Eichel were huge this year and they don't have those guys without shipping out the other players/prospects.

Yea I was trying to get a feel from people on the board if they thought it was good or bad when looking at the NHL from an outsiders perspective. I really can't say how casual fans feel about a new team winning and I don't know if this inherently brings more eyes and fans to the game. I don't really have any arguments right now if I think it's good or bad, but my feelings right now are annoyed that an expansion team wins so early on in their existence. If people have compelling arguments one way or another, then I would consider those and form an opinion, but right now I don't have one.

As far as then salary cap goes, lots of teams have been abusing it for years whether they win or don't. Regardless of outcome, I don't think teams should be allowed to place a player on IR, trade for multiple assets that gets them to the cap ceiling, and then activate that player from IR to start the playoffs. It's not a great look and it hurts the smaller market teams because they likely won't and can't do that. As far as Vegas goes, I think they did some cap shenanigans this year, but I could be wrong (I don't know if capfriendly is current or not). In any case, they've used it before with the intention of activating Stone from IR once they reached the playoffs, and again I don't believe that is a good thing.

 

[BlueDream]

Florida had some significant injuries. Props to them for battling as hard as they did.

 

[Thallis]

So I would imagine the abuse of the salary cap is going to get fixed very soon, but is it a good or bad thing that a team just 6 years into their existence have been able to go to the finals twice and win a cup? Credit to the Knights for showing up but I have a tough time seeing this as a good thing for the league.

Doubtful. They had a chance to fix it a while ago and every team but us and Tampa (I think) voted against closing that loophole.

 

[Majorityof1]

Yea I was trying to get a feel from people on the board if they thought it was good or bad when looking at the NHL from an outsiders perspective. I really can't say how casual fans feel about a new team winning and I don't know if this inherently brings more eyes and fans to the game. I don't really have any arguments right now if I think it's good or bad, but my feelings right now are annoyed that an expansion team wins so early on in their existence. If people have compelling arguments one way or another, then I would consider those and form an opinion, but right now I don't have one.

As far as then salary cap goes, lots of teams have been abusing it for years whether they win or don't. Regardless of outcome, I don't think teams should be allowed to place a player on IR, trade for multiple assets that gets them to the cap ceiling, and then activate that player from IR to start the playoffs. It's not a great look and it hurts the smaller market teams because they likely won't and can't do that. As far as Vegas goes, I think they did some cap shenanigans this year, but I could be wrong (I don't know if capfriendly is current or not). In any case, they've used it before with the intention of activating Stone from IR once they reached the playoffs, and again I don't believe that is a good thing.

I agree with you that there are issues with the cap. I was just saying Vegas winning isn't a symptom of the broken cap. TB winning was. TB won a cup because they went over the cap with LITR and activated Kucherov who was a huge contributor.

I guess you could say the lack of a start income tax allows Vegas TB and Florida to pay slightly less AAV and still sign players. That could be a cap issue but probably not what you meant.

I have no probelm with an expansion team winning. They made shrewed moves to get into position to do so. As for casual fans, I think its a great story for them. Plus, Vegas is a fun team to watch because of the pomp and circumstance they bring. That appeals to casual fans as well.

 

[Xerloris]

Letting Petro go will always be Army’s biggest mistake. All that grandstanding by Army over a NMC. He was the captain of your cup winning team…you could’ve made an exception and others would’ve understood. With Petro, the Blues have a chance at getting past the Avs and winning it all again last year. Blegh.

The Blues would have beat the Avs last year until Binnington got hurt. Last I knew Pietrangelo doesn't play goal so we would have still been stuck with Husso in net and that ended our playoff hopes. Also, I guess you didn't hear but Pietrangelo said on an interview he wanted to go somewhere to have a chance to compete. Or more to the point, he chose to leave. Armstrong did not "let him go". So everyone can get off of Armstrongs balls now.

I think it's a good thing that a team was able to win a Stanley Cup in the modern salary cap era without tanking for high draft picks and instead building the team through trade acquisitions and free agents.

Yeah, maybe the expansion draft gave them some bonuses, but that franchise had to do a lot of work and make a lot of moves to reach this point, so good on them. Also gives me... not exactly hope, but at least acknowledgement of the possibility that maybe Armstrong could do something similar.

And I'm not sure it's good for the league to default to the setting where expansion teams are just supposed to suck because they are expansion teams. It's probably beneficial for the future of the league that new teams are given some advantages to build fanbases early on so we have a better chance to avoid some of the situations going on in other places...

I mean we kind of did that exact same thing didn't we?

 

[shpongle falls]

Was hoping Florida would win but it was awesome seeing Barbie and Petro lift the cup again. Congrats to the Knights, that roster is ****ing stacked and that run Hill went on was crazy, he was awesome.

Ready for the offseason to get going.

 

[Xerloris]

So who's gonna take Lehners contract so they can keep their new shiny goalie?

 

[LetsGoBooze]

Congrats to Vegas, once Tkachuk got hurt the series was over. Glad Vegas proved all the haters wrong. Sometimes going all in on a roster year-after-year can work out. Wish we coulda found a way to keep Petro, but no hard feelings. Congrats to him and Barbie.

 

[ezcreepin]

I agree with you that there are issues with the cap. I was just saying Vegas winning isn't a symptom of the broken cap. TB winning was. TB won a cup because they went over the cap with LITR and activated Kucherov who was a huge contributor.

I guess you could say the lack of a start income tax allows Vegas TB and Florida to pay slightly less AAV and still sign players. That could be a cap issue but probably not what you meant.

I have no probelm with an expansion team winning. They made shrewed moves to get into position to do so. As for casual fans, I think its a great story for them. Plus, Vegas is a fun team to watch because of the pomp and circumstance they bring. That appeals to casual fans as well.

At first I wasn't sure, but turns out Vegas did use the loophole. They finished the season 14 mil over the cap. So in this case having 2 teams use this, among other teams who used it trying to win, it should definitely be fixed.

 

[Ranksu]

Pietro is winner. Good To see Barby lift cup again.

 

[Ranksu]

Letting Petro go will always be Army’s biggest mistake. All that grandstanding by Army over a NMC. He was the captain of your cup winning team…you could’ve made an exception and others would’ve understood. With Petro, the Blues have a chance at getting past the Avs and winning it all again last year. Blegh.

Its only reason where Blues are at now. One of the bottom teams.

Its going To be long years ahead of us. We need To draft high and got Lucky that player(s) Will developed star player and hope all bad things wont happend To him, like injuries.

YouTube Will never get same type of player like Pietro was.

 

[Eldon Reid]

I think it's a good thing that a team was able to win a Stanley Cup in the modern salary cap era without tanking for high draft picks and instead building the team through trade acquisitions and free agents.

Yeah, maybe the expansion draft gave them some bonuses, but that franchise had to do a lot of work and make a lot of moves to reach this point, so good on them. Also gives me... not exactly hope, but at least acknowledgement of the possibility that maybe Armstrong could do something similar.

And I'm not sure it's good for the league to default to the setting where expansion teams are just supposed to suck because they are expansion teams. It's probably beneficial for the future of the league that new teams are given some advantages to build fanbases early on so we have a better chance to avoid some of the situations going on in other places...

I think it is good to see expansion team do well early on, but what I think is this. Everyone is like so shock Vegas is in the position they are in. I said to some of my friends when Vegas came into the league they were going to be good within 2-3 years of them starting because the expansion draft, teams were being so stupid.

Look at this. When Vegas started, this is what Vegas got for picks at the expansion draft.

2017: They got 2 1st rounds, 2nd, 5th, & 6th
2018: They got 3rd & 2 4th round
2019: They got 2 2nd & 3rd
2020: They got 2nd

Then from the players they traded off just after the draft.

2017: They got 2 2nd round
2018: They got 5th round
2019: They got 3rd and 5th
2020: They got 2nd round

You give a team that many picks they are going get good soon because they have so much ammunition to trade with.

So all together they had the following:

2017 They got 2 1st round, 3 2nd round, 5th & 6th
2018 They got 3rd, 2 4th round, & 5th
2019 They got 2 2nd round, 2 3rd round, 4th, & 5th
2020 They got 2 2nd round

They got 20 extra picks within 2 days of existence.

I will say this. I am way more impress with Seattle than Vegas.

 

[BlueOil]

nice to see pietrangelo and barbashev win another cup

i think most teams are a pietrangelo and eichel away from being a cup contending team and assume that's where the jealousy around vegas comes from

 

[PocketNines]

Can you imagine being in the room when someone told Kelly McCrimmon and Bill Foley that Doug Armstrong wasn't going to offer Pietrangelo an NMC because it would make him more powerful than the owner? They must have roared with laughter at Stupid Doug. What a staggeringly abysmal decision at all moments of its life, before during and after. It proves he didn't understand why the Blues won in 2019. He must have thought it was himself.

I can imagine the giddy laughter in the Vegas front office when this was happening. "Doug's just ... going to let the guy walk?" (collapses in fits of laughter).

 

[The Note]

So I would imagine the abuse of the salary cap is going to get fixed very soon, but is it a good or bad thing that a team just 6 years into their existence have been able to go to the finals twice and win a cup? Credit to the Knights for showing up but I have a tough time seeing this as a good thing for the league.

I think it's good, at least in the sense that it's better than having expansion teams come in and be dreadful. Vegas is an extreme example given they have an argument for most successful team in the conference since they joined, but I think it's good that expansion teams aren't outright putrid anymore. Ditto for Seattle having a nice little run -- not to the same extent of Vegas of course -- provides something for fans to buy in to. If they had two straight awful years and the enthusiasm wanes, I don't think that's a good outcome, either. Vegas has also been relentless in their pursuit of elite talent when it becomes available and if their success forces more teams in the league to do that I also consider that a win.

As for the LTIR stuff, I simply don't care. That seems to put me in a minority based off main board threads and here, but it's there to be exploited. If a team finds themselves in a position to take advantage of it they absolutely should. Until the league and PA want to/actually do change it, that's the game.

 

[Stealth JD]

Can you imagine being in the room when someone told Kelly McCrimmon and Bill Foley that Doug Armstrong wasn't going to offer Pietrangelo an NMC because it would make him more powerful than the owner? They must have roared with laughter at Stupid Doug. What a staggeringly abysmal decision at all moments of its life, before during and after. It proves he didn't understand why the Blues won in 2019. He must have thought it was himself.

I can imagine the giddy laughter in the Vegas front office when this was happening. "Doug's just ... going to let the guy walk?" (collapses in fits of laughter).

Army couldn’t make the Captain more powerful than the owner? Can Tom Stillman shut-down the the top forward lines on the top teams one after another in succession to recapture Lord Stanley’s Cup?

That should have been the only consideration given if this franchise gave a shit about contending for championships.

Edit:
You’d have thought the franchise would’ve learned after watching Pronger beast for the league’s best teams after leaving STL. You simply don’t let those true #1D anchors leave. You just don’t. He should’ve been immediately Josi’d the second his contract was able to be extended.

Perhaps Meehan and Petro were simply hell-bent on leaving. But something tells STL could’ve made something work with Newport and AP27.

 

[PJJJP]

Army couldn’t make the Captain more powerful than the owner? Can Tom Stillman shut-down the the top forward lines on the top teams one after another in succession to recapture Lord Stanley’s Cup?

That should have been the only consideration given if this franchise gave a shit about contending for championships.

Nah he can't do that, but he can do whatever the f*** he wants with his franchise. It's his toy and we all just get to watch him do with it what he wants. He theoretically could sign Petro to 15 mil a year and no one can really stop him. He could also say he doesn't want to sign petro and no one can do anything about it. They could try and convince him about the pros and cons but ultimately the GM and staff are there to do what he wants. If he wants people fired because they do a bad job he can do that with a snap of his fingers.

 

[Reality Czech]

The amount of Petro simping going on around here is absurd. He left, people need to get over it. There is a reason few players spend their entire career with one team. Petro only cares about Petro, he doesn't give two shits about the Blues or their fans.

 

[Stealth JD]

The amount of Petro simping going on around here is absurd. He left, people need to get over it. There is a reason few players spend their entire career with one team. Petro only cares about Petro, he doesn't give two shits about the Blues or their fans.

Dude. Do you not still see me complaining about Pronger being dealt? It's a noble request, but it's never going to happen.

The day after Pietrangelo hoists another Cup is exactly when you should expect to see the bitching in fullest. And if he wins another one in the future, I'm sure you'll hear more about the Blues butchering negotiations.

 

[Reality Czech]

Dude. Do you not still see me complaining about Pronger being dealt?

It's a noble request, but it's never going to happen. The day after Pietrangelo hoists another Cup is exactly when you should expect to see the bitching in fullest.

People can do what they want but I reserve the right to think it's lame. Petro left his wholesome, loving wife (STL) for a younger, hotter woman (Vegas) and as usual the children always suffer the most.

Petro being here does not guarantee the Blues would be the ones hoisting the Cup, however. Not even close.