Around the NHL 10 - 2022/23

[DRW204]

I still think Bones was justified, because it wasn't a comment made in a vacuum or about one single bad game. It was the culmination of half a season of no push-back.

And just because other teams also crumpled like a single-ply toilet paper when the chips were down vs Vegas doesn't make it any better that the Jets did IMO.

Re: Maurice, I think a team that won 13 games in the playoffs deserves some slack. No need to rip them over running out of gas in the finals when they already way overachieved (WRT what was expected of them). So I think it's comparing apples to oranges to try drawing any comparison between Round 1 Jets flameout and SCF Panthers collapse.

yup, bowness reached a boiling point after this teams performance through basically three straight months and cultivated with a typical Jets elimination game performance....

this year:
March: 'That's what we're dealing with': Jets' Bowness pulls back curtain on issue of motivation, commitment
Feb: Jets' Bowness resumes candidness Monday after rare night off
Jan: 'I'm surprised there weren't more boos': Jets' Rick Bowness, after a disastrous night

i don't care or take any solace in the fact that vegas beat other teams. imo that's searching for moral victories or ODing on some copium.

and yes maurice/panthers had the toughest path to the finals of any team in NHL history. they definitely deserve their credit for the PO performance this year (but not vindicated! ). The folks who shit on Maurice/FLA for losing this year should never bring up the 17-18 Jets season as an accomplishment then.

 

[WaveRaven]

And the just get in and you can win fallacy goes down in flames again as the 8 seed crashes and burns.

 

[tbcwpg]

To me, and I could be wrong for this assumption, but if players are available for free pickings at the expansion draft, I'd think you'd be able to acquire them via trade? The team losing them atleast gets something instead of nothing is my logic. So even FLA or CBJ getting middling picks for Marchessault or Karlsson is >>> nothing . Although then it does occupy your own protection slots so that'd need to be take into consideration for sure.

Vince Dunn is another example. Or McCann. Two players reportedly on the block or in McCanns case traded multiple times, but then gone for free. Would STL or TOR taken atleast something for them?

I don't disagree about the stars. they traded high costs for eichel and stone so its not like they got them for nothing and were evidently high contributors. For WPG that will likely have to come via draft since our GM doesn't make a whole lot of player trades outside the TDL.

But if I'm going to take away something that that WPG could benefit from both of these teams is finding those unwanted, or unheralded players for peanuts and them becoming key contributors. The stars likely will have to come on their own unless WPG can trade for them which is unlikely for a multitude of reasons (availability, chances of signing etc)

As gojetsgo pointed out, Vegas also had teams trading them pieces to not take other pieces. The Jets did it too, swapped 1sts so they'd take Golden Knights legend Chris Thorburn instead of Toby Enstrom. The issue Florida would've had is then if we trade for Marchessault, Florida still has to expose players. It's not a usual situation.

I think we agree on most stuff here, I agree with you that the Jets should be more aggressive in looking for the contributing depth pieces like a Stephenson, or what Colorado did getting Devon Toews (same draft return as Brenden Dillon), but Winnipeg will have to draft the stars that make those guys depth pieces and not your top line guys and that will take time and luck. We'll see how patient the fan base is in the next few years.

 

[gojetsgo]

 

[surixon]

Shocking that he followed Dubois to Pittsburgh lol

 

[DRW204]

As gojetsgo pointed out, Vegas also had teams trading them pieces to not take other pieces. The Jets did it too, swapped 1sts so they'd take Golden Knights legend Chris Thorburn instead of Toby Enstrom. The issue Florida would've had is then if we trade for Marchessault, Florida still has to expose players. It's not a usual situation.

I think we agree on most stuff here, I agree with you that the Jets should be more aggressive in looking for the contributing depth pieces like a Stephenson, or what Colorado did getting Devon Toews (same draft return as Brenden Dillon), but Winnipeg will have to draft the stars that make those guys depth pieces and not your top line guys and that will take time and luck. We'll see how patient the fan base is in the next few years.

yeah totally fair. it was late and didn't consider all the trades lol.

i just think instead of concentrating on what WPG can't do.... looking at the two teams, to me there's definite areas where i think WPG can vastly improve in and mimic some of the transactions for those gems/unheralded players who go for cheap. Or, finding players of perhaps similar skill-sets/style of play/low TOI etc. that could break-out on a different team or role.

 

[SUX2BU]

Shocking that he followed Dubois to Pittsburgh lol

Crosby will run if he hears this .........

 

[bumblebeeman]

yeah totally fair. it was late and didn't consider all the trades lol.

i just think instead of concentrating on what WPG can't do.... looking at the two teams, to me there's definite areas where i think WPG can vastly improve in and mimic some of the transactions for those gems/unheralded players who go for cheap. Or, finding players of perhaps similar skill-sets/style of play/low TOI etc. that could break-out on a different team or role.

Yes agreed. That's what I never understood about Chevy defenders. Like ok he can't attract big name UFAs or keep some players long term, but why can't he get good depth guys to come? Sure some of them don't want to, or he'd have to overpay them. Chandler Stephenson is a good example of the kind of guy the Jets should be looking for. Young depth guys that still have room to grow but aren't getting opportunities.

I don't mind guys like Saku, Appleton or Stenlund. But none of these guys are going to put up 60+ points haha

 

[Hobble]

View attachment 717849

Not for next year’s winner against us it seems.

 

[TommyKillian]

Yes agreed. That's what I never understood about Chevy defenders. Like ok he can't attract big name UFAs or keep some players long term, but why can't he get good depth guys to come? Sure some of them don't want to, or he'd have to overpay them. Chandler Stephenson is a good example of the kind of guy the Jets should be looking for. Young depth guys that still have room to grow but aren't getting opportunities.

I don't mind guys like Saku, Appleton or Stenlund. But none of these guys are going to put up 60+ points haha

Vegas getting Chandler Stephenson for a 5th round pick in 2019 is just absurd. Lets look at some of the trades that brought Vegas some of their key players for this run (for the sake of illustrating the value of each pick, in brackets I have listed the player the Jets picked in the same round as the pick that was traded):

-Chandler Stephensen for a 5th round pick in 2019 (Harrison Blaisdell);
-Adin Hill for a 4th round pick in 2022 (Garrett Brown);
-Alec Martinez with 2 years of term for 2nd round picks in 2020 (Daniel Torgesson) and 2021 (Nikita Chibrikov);
-Reilly Smith for a 4th round pick in 2018 (Jets had no 4th rounder, Nathan Smith and Declan Chisholm were closest picks);
-Brett Howden for a 4th round pick in 2022 (Garrett Brown) and an AHLer;
-Nick Cousins for a 4th round pick in 2021 (Dmitry Kuzmin or Rashevsky);
-Keegan Kolesar for a 2nd round pick in 2017 (Dylan Samberg);

That's 7 NHL players, 4 of whom played crucial roles on a Cup run and all of whom had term or were RFAs at the time of the trades. All this attained for draft capital that would be expected to yield maybe one or two full-time NHLers. For comparison sake, the Jets are likely to get one top 4 D (Dylan Samberg), a 6/7 d man (Chisholm, though he has good potential) and two magic beans (Chibrikov and Rashevsky) by keeping and drafting the picks in the same rounds that Vegas traded.

You absolutely need to nail these types of trades to contend. I think Frolik (though you could maybe count Demelo as well) were the last times the Jets got really good value in trading mid to late-round picks. Chevy focuses too much on guys that are in or past their primes when he trades draft picks for players. Nothing against Nino, Schmidt and Dillon, and I think in isolation those were all decent trades, but there are numerous examples of GMs making better use of draft capital (and the waiver wire...) every season.

I'd really like to see Chevy improve at spotting emerging talent and then being aggressive in attaining the guys he has isolated. We have widdled away tons of depth by trading draft capital for short-term fixes.

 

[AussieBomberJet]

Yeah, the only thing that's going to make it better is when the Manitoba boys ( that wouldn't play for the Jets if you held a gun to their heads ) come home to parade the Cup around Manitoba this summer.

Exactly why I personally could care less about their 'success'.

 

[None]

Yeah, the only thing that's going to make it better is when the Manitoba boys ( that wouldn't play for the Jets if you held a gun to their heads ) come home to parade the Cup around Manitoba this summer.

Did you see the Pierre Lebrun article in The Athletic that lowkey kind of implies that Stone would have (edit: been willing to sign) signed with the Jets had they actually stepped up to the plate with the offer that the Senators wanted? Including Roslovic has been rumored to have been the sticking point.

The explanation is rather simple: The majority of NHL teams believed at the time that Stone had set his sights on Vegas, where he would be reunited with general manager Kelly McCrimmon from their Brandon Wheat Kings WHL days.

Looking back, that appears to be somewhat true, although not completely. I’ve heard there were two other teams Stone might have entertained an extension with, but those teams didn’t want to make a serious trade offer to Ottawa without the extension guaranteed.

And this much I know to be true: Newport Sports, which represents Stone, told teams who were interested in Stone before that trade deadline in February 2019 that they wouldn’t talk contract until 1) the Senators gave them permission, obviously, but also 2) there was at least the conditional framework of a trade in place. That was Newport’s way of having some control of the process, which was smart. But it also served to scare away some interested teams from making their best pitches to Ottawa.
...
“I remember talking to Ottawa, but not sure how far the talks actually got,” Jets GM Kevin Cheveldayoff told The Athletic on Sunday. “I never got the chance to get to the point where we would have been in a position to talk contract.”

LeBrun: The Mark Stone trade revisited — how Vegas landed its Cup Final captain at a bargain price

Mark Stone was doing vintage Mark Stone things in Game 1 of the Stanley Cup Final, which had to have been tough to watch for Senators fans.

theathletic.com

 

[surixon]

Did you see the Pierre Lebrun article in The Athletic that lowkey kind of implies that Stone would have signed with the Jets had they actually stepped up to the plate with the offer that the Senators wanted? Including Roslovic has been rumored to have been the sticking point.

LeBrun: The Mark Stone trade revisited — how Vegas landed its Cup Final captain at a bargain price

Mark Stone was doing vintage Mark Stone things in Game 1 of the Stanley Cup Final, which had to have been tough to watch for Senators fans.

theathletic.com

I mean it still seems to indicate Vegas was the clear front runner and his camp may have entertained other destinations if nothing worked out with Vegas that is how I read it.

 

[DRW204]

Did you see the Pierre Lebrun article in The Athletic that lowkey kind of implies that Stone would have signed with the Jets had they actually stepped up to the plate with the offer that the Senators wanted? Including Roslovic has been rumored to have been the sticking point.

LeBrun: The Mark Stone trade revisited — how Vegas landed its Cup Final captain at a bargain price

Mark Stone was doing vintage Mark Stone things in Game 1 of the Stanley Cup Final, which had to have been tough to watch for Senators fans.

theathletic.com

The Jets didn't want to pay him more than Wheeler

 

[None]

I mean it still seems to indicate Vegas was the clear front runner and his camp may have entertained other destinations if nothing worked out with Vegas that is how I read it.

Vegas was told the same thing by Newport, by the way. No talks on an extension until there’s a conditional trade in place.

From the same article

Vegas made the trade under the same conditions as other teams supposedly. It kind of makes sense given that it took another 2 weeks to actually get him extended when most were assuming he'd sign the extension immediately after the trade.

I still think that even as a rental the rumored price was probably worth it. It was 1st + Roslovic + another prospect I think. I think Cheveldayoff loathes to remove players from the active roster and Roslovic was established at that point so he was basically untouchable.

So instead we got Kevin Hayes for not much less.

 

[gojetsgo]

From the same article

Vegas made the trade under the same conditions as other teams supposedly. It kind of makes sense given that it took another 2 weeks to actually get him extended when most were assuming he'd sign the extension immediately after the trade.

I still think that even as a rental the rumored price was probably worth it. It was 1st + Roslovic + another prospect I think. I think Cheveldayoff loathes to remove players from the active roster and Roslovic was established at that point so he was basically untouchable.

So instead we got Kevin Hayes for not much less.

pretty sure I remember them agreeing to an extension before hand but they needed to do it later on so he could get the full 8 years instead of 7 if he had just signed at the deadline
edit: Golden Knights, Mark Stone agree to eight-year extension

"The deal, which is expected to be north of $9 million per season, can’t officially be signed until March 1."

 

[surixon]

From the same article

Vegas made the trade under the same conditions as other teams supposedly. It kind of makes sense given that it took another 2 weeks to actually get him extended when most were assuming he'd sign the extension immediately after the trade.

I still think that even as a rental the rumored price was probably worth it. It was 1st + Roslovic + another prospect I think. I think Cheveldayoff loathes to remove players from the active roster and Roslovic was established at that point so he was basically untouchable.

So instead we got Kevin Hayes for not much less.

Juat because the trade was made under the same conditions doesn't mean the agent didn't give the other teams an indication of where his clients preferred destination was. You don't need to talk numbers for that.

 

[ps241]

Couple of Millennials saying f*** the patriarchy.............oh wait...............we have the power.................now what? Hey spezz its Dubie.................I got a plumb job for you brother.

New Old Boys club 2.0

 

[None]

Juat because the trade was made under the same conditions doesn't mean the agent didn't give the other teams an indication of where his clients preferred destination was. You don't need to talk numbers for that.

The article at its word simply says that there were two other teams that he would've signed with aside from Vegas if the trade had occurred. Given that Lebrun immediately followed that with a quote from Kevin Cheveldayoff I'm guessing that he also thinks that one of those teams was probably the Jets.

 

[surixon]

The article at its word simply says that there were two other teams that he would've signed with aside from Vegas if the trade had occurred. Given that Lebrun immediately followed that with a quote from Kevin Cheveldayoff I'm guessing that he also thinks that one of those teams was probably the Jets.

The actual words are "might have" that is a far cry from would have.

 

[None]

The actual words are "might have" that is a far cry from would have.

Which again, Chevy couldn't know because he never even met the rental price to begin negotiations on an extension. As I said, I'd have been happy with a 1st + Roslovic + whatever throw-in it was for Stone as a rental. Maybe he signs or maybe he doesn't.

All I was saying was that Lebrun is implying that the Jets were one of those two teams that Stone was at least willing to entertain. Chevy never even got to the wine and dine part of the entertainment because he balked at the rental price.

We ended up with Kevin Hayes playing 4th line while being one of our most productive players though so who knows. Maybe Maurice or the team would've soured Stone on an extension.

 

[jetsforever]

At least we lost to the eventual winner I guess...
Good for Brossoit and the Manitoba guys

(also glad Eichel didn't get the Smythe)

 

[roccerfeller]

I'd really like to see Chevy improve at spotting emerging talent and then being aggressive in attaining the guys he has isolated. We have widdled away tons of depth by trading draft capital for short-term fixes.

therein is the difference between Chevy and mccrimmon in my opinion. KM has that nose for this stuff. He did it in Brandon.

chevy, while I think overall is a good GM and better than most in the league, is conservative to a fault at times, as illustrated by your post

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I've always hated Las Vegas. It's a tasteless, guady monument to American consumerism and ignorance. It's a cultural wasteland where everything in an overpriced, tacky rip off of something better from a real place somewhere else.

The fact that NHL players would want to live in that classless, exhausting shithole makes me question their character tbh.

This is such a pretentious take. Good ol Canadian consumerism right? Considering how many Canadians visit Vegas every year. Come on.

 

[bumblebeeman]

Vegas getting Chandler Stephenson for a 5th round pick in 2019 is just absurd. Lets look at some of the trades that brought Vegas some of their key players for this run (for the sake of illustrating the value of each pick, in brackets I have listed the player the Jets picked in the same round as the pick that was traded):

-Chandler Stephensen for a 5th round pick in 2019 (Harrison Blaisdell);
-Adin Hill for a 4th round pick in 2022 (Garrett Brown);
-Alec Martinez with 2 years of term for 2nd round picks in 2020 (Daniel Torgesson) and 2021 (Nikita Chibrikov);
-Reilly Smith for a 4th round pick in 2018 (Jets had no 4th rounder, Nathan Smith and Declan Chisholm were closest picks);
-Brett Howden for a 4th round pick in 2022 (Garrett Brown) and an AHLer;
-Nick Cousins for a 4th round pick in 2021 (Dmitry Kuzmin or Rashevsky);
-Keegan Kolesar for a 2nd round pick in 2017 (Dylan Samberg);

That's 7 NHL players, 4 of whom played crucial roles on a Cup run and all of whom had term or were RFAs at the time of the trades. All this attained for draft capital that would be expected to yield maybe one or two full-time NHLers. For comparison sake, the Jets are likely to get one top 4 D (Dylan Samberg), a 6/7 d man (Chisholm, though he has good potential) and two magic beans (Chibrikov and Rashevsky) by keeping and drafting the picks in the same rounds that Vegas traded.

You absolutely need to nail these types of trades to contend. I think Frolik (though you could maybe count Demelo as well) were the last times the Jets got really good value in trading mid to late-round picks. Chevy focuses too much on guys that are in or past their primes when he trades draft picks for players. Nothing against Nino, Schmidt and Dillon, and I think in isolation those were all decent trades, but there are numerous examples of GMs making better use of draft capital (and the waiver wire...) every season.

I'd really like to see Chevy improve at spotting emerging talent and then being aggressive in attaining the guys he has isolated. We have widdled away tons of depth by trading draft capital for short-term fixes.

Great post, exactly what I was thinking but with actual research haha. Those guys are the biggest difference maker, the top Jets players vs the top Vegas players is close, but their depth is insane. And they don't get it from being a desirable location (tho that helps in ways), but by having a pro-active gm and ownership who want to win (aren't just happy making the playoffs like in Wpg).