Around the NHL 10 - 2022/23

[Jet]

It wasn't just FIFA. FIFA defended it the whole time because they're garbage. Sports media made a show of caring for a day then ignored it because they don't care enough to upset their income streams.

Are you big NHL/Sports media? You're a hockey forum moderator, I wasn't calling out you or anyone on the board

Again I'm all for fans and people on here being upset. They should be, same with the few sports media who were hammering Qatar the whole world cup. But for sports journalists who were screeching about how great the world cup was going on the literal bodies of migrant workers worked to death and as fans were being forced to remove any rainbow colored clothing and players were threatened with suspensions for wearing rainbow colored arm bands? Nah. f*** em.

Yup, it's funny how these companies are all about social equality until it affects their bottom line.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Yup, it's funny how these companies are all about social equality until it affects their bottom line.

Its the way the corporations work. Do you know by 2030 50 percent of Canadians will be Gen Z or Millennials. Do you know what they care about? Its why Corporations are onboard. They care because they have too to make money.

It scares the Bejeesus out of people who don't like the fact that use the N word or the F word anymore

 

[Jet]

Its the way the corporations work. Do you know by 2030 50 percent of Canadians will be Gen Z or Millennials. Do you know what they care about? Its why Corporations are onboard. They care because they have too to make money.

It scares the Bejeesus out of people who don't like the fact that use the N word or the F word anymore

It's the whole reason for Bell Let's Talk, which is why I hate it. When I worked for Bell they didn't give a shit about their employees mental health.

What a scam.

 

[voyageur]

Honestly I have no f***ing idea where you are going with this. I don't speak for all people. To me this has f*** all to do with Provorov's birth origin, though there is something to be learned about how Russia treats LGBTQ+ people. That doesn't mean ALL Russians feel that way - many Russians are against the war, too.

However, when someone uses religion to basically say gay people shouldn't exist because my religion forbids it whilst conveniently ignoring any of that religions rules that forbids him for doing things he likes, it doesn't take a scholar to figure out where his real motivations lie.

I know I shouldn't get into this discussion for my own sake but I will.

In my life the group of people I have heard the most egregious and hateful things said against are native people. People will say them in front of me, because I'm white, but when I start talking about being part half-breed in heritage they realize I am not on their side.

It's easy to target racism because optics is everything. Discriminating against race is something that has no place but it still exists, even with the best efforts by institutions to change them. Part of the problem is racism is institutionalized.

Ethics on sexual orientation are a little more difficult. I mean I grew up with some pretty hot cousins, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't aroused by them at times, but that's implicitly a moral boundary of sexual deviance. Even though I have met people who have crossed that boundary, and in high school I remember studying the royal family of Britain genetically, and their DNA was very closely linked. Same thing would apply to polygamy. You listen to Darius Kaspiritis talk about the Russian way, of having a mistress, which was also a French thing, presidents having their mistresses in their inauguration.

Religion is how a lot of law was codified in our society, like it or not. If someone objects to homosexuality I think they have the same right as anyone else in society who doesn't agree with something on moral grounds. I mean in Canada you can get all sorts of religious exemptions for religions that aren't Christian, from Sikhs being allowed to wear turbans without helmets on motorcycles, and only marry within their culture, which is somewhat racist if the shoe was on the other foot. To Sharia law being accepted as a faith, being able to pray at a certain time of day or when I worked at the group home, the kids were forced to eat non pork meals to appease their religious beliefs . Neither of those religions support homosexuality in any way, but they are allowed to have religious and moral boundaries set by it without any problems. I mean you look at some countries where a woman who is raped needs another woman to testify on her behalf for that testimony to be equal to a man's, or having children sold to marriage before they are even pubescent, there's still some pretty strange traditions that exist in this world, like places with female genital mutilation, that Canada accepts into their fabric of a nation.

For me as long as you don't touch me inappropriately, I'm fine. If you do you are crossing a boundary. I don't think that anyone should be forced to believe in something they don't, as long as they aren't being hurtful in their actions. I think that hockey is trying very hard to be inclusive, and still has a long way to go. For me I may not agree on matters of sexual orientation with you, but I respect you as a knowledgeable hockey person, and player.

 

[snowkiddin]

What's worse is the way that the team and league have handled it.

Just goes to show that the NHL could care less about diversity. Example after example of how actions speak louder than words.

I would have NEVER thought the NFL would have an openly gay player before the NHL but you can see by toxic hockey culture why this is.


I wonder if we could use Heinola as a centerpiece around a Chychrun deal?

I’m not sure Heinola as the centrepiece will work for Arizona, but I’d be all over that. What do you figure the pluses would be?

 

[JetsFan815]

I know I shouldn't get into this discussion for my own sake but I will.

In my life the group of people I have heard the most egregious and hateful things said against are native people. People will say them in front of me, because I'm white, but when I start talking about being part half-breed in heritage they realize I am not on their side.

It's easy to target racism because optics is everything. Discriminating against race is something that has no place but it still exists, even with the best efforts by institutions to change them. Part of the problem is racism is institutionalized.

Ethics on sexual orientation are a little more difficult. I mean I grew up with some pretty hot cousins, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't aroused by them at times, but that's implicitly a moral boundary of sexual deviance. Even though I have met people who have crossed that boundary, and in high school I remember studying the royal family of Britain genetically, and their DNA was very closely linked. Same thing would apply to polygamy. You listen to Darius Kaspiritis talk about the Russian way, of having a mistress, which was also a French thing, presidents having their mistresses in their inauguration.

Religion is how a lot of law was codified in our society, like it or not. If someone objects to homosexuality I think they have the same right as anyone else in society who doesn't agree with something on moral grounds. I mean in Canada you can get all sorts of religious exemptions for religions that aren't Christian, from Sikhs being allowed to wear turbans without helmets on motorcycles, and only marry within their culture, which is somewhat racist if the shoe was on the other foot. To Sharia law being accepted as a faith, being able to pray at a certain time of day or when I worked at the group home, the kids were forced to eat non pork meals to appease their religious beliefs . Neither of those religions support homosexuality in any way, but they are allowed to have religious and moral boundaries set by it without any problems. I mean you look at some countries where a woman who is raped needs another woman to testify on her behalf for that testimony to be equal to a man's, or having children sold to marriage before they are even pubescent, there's still some pretty strange traditions that exist in this world, like places with female genital mutilation, that Canada accepts into their fabric of a nation.

For me as long as you don't touch me inappropriately, I'm fine. If you do you are crossing a boundary. I don't think that anyone should be forced to believe in something they don't, as long as they aren't being hurtful in their actions. I think that hockey is trying very hard to be inclusive, and still has a long way to go. For me I may not agree on matters of sexual orientation with you, but I respect you as a knowledgeable hockey person, and player.

This post is so ignorant. There is nothing in Canada to allow "sikhs only marry within their own culture". I know a Sikh woman who is married to a white guy, Jujhar Khaira is sikh and has a white girlfriend. There is no Sharia law in Canada or any attempt to install Sharia law, that's a lie often promoted by those who have something against muslim people. Not sure why you are talking about irrelevant stuff like FGM which is banned in Canada and completely irrelevant to this discussion and Provorov.

 

[Jet]

I know I shouldn't get into this discussion for my own sake but I will.

In my life the group of people I have heard the most egregious and hateful things said against are native people. People will say them in front of me, because I'm white, but when I start talking about being part half-breed in heritage they realize I am not on their side.

It's easy to target racism because optics is everything. Discriminating against race is something that has no place but it still exists, even with the best efforts by institutions to change them. Part of the problem is racism is institutionalized.

Ethics on sexual orientation are a little more difficult. I mean I grew up with some pretty hot cousins, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't aroused by them at times, but that's implicitly a moral boundary of sexual deviance. Even though I have met people who have crossed that boundary, and in high school I remember studying the royal family of Britain genetically, and their DNA was very closely linked. Same thing would apply to polygamy. You listen to Darius Kaspiritis talk about the Russian way, of having a mistress, which was also a French thing, presidents having their mistresses in their inauguration.

Religion is how a lot of law was codified in our society, like it or not. If someone objects to homosexuality I think they have the same right as anyone else in society who doesn't agree with something on moral grounds. I mean in Canada you can get all sorts of religious exemptions for religions that aren't Christian, from Sikhs being allowed to wear turbans without helmets on motorcycles, and only marry within their culture, which is somewhat racist if the shoe was on the other foot. To Sharia law being accepted as a faith, being able to pray at a certain time of day or when I worked at the group home, the kids were forced to eat non pork meals to appease their religious beliefs . Neither of those religions support homosexuality in any way, but they are allowed to have religious and moral boundaries set by it without any problems. I mean you look at some countries where a woman who is raped needs another woman to testify on her behalf for that testimony to be equal to a man's, or having children sold to marriage before they are even pubescent, there's still some pretty strange traditions that exist in this world, like places with female genital mutilation, that Canada accepts into their fabric of a nation.

For me as long as you don't touch me inappropriately, I'm fine. If you do you are crossing a boundary. I don't think that anyone should be forced to believe in something they don't, as long as they aren't being hurtful in their actions. I think that hockey is trying very hard to be inclusive, and still has a long way to go. For me I may not agree on matters of sexual orientation with you, but I respect you as a knowledgeable hockey person, and player.

I don't think anyone (or I at least) is trying to force anyone to believe in anything.

What becomes an issue for me is when actions of others minimizes a group of people, or affects their quality of life.

Of course, there are limits to this, such as a group who's behavior that hurts others.

However, as had been stated by others on this forum, I did not choose this life. I hated myself for a long time and tried 'not' to be gay. However, I have never had attraction to women, nor have I ever wanted to be romantically involved with one. I've never loved a woman (in a partner sense) but I've loved several men.

Should i suffer my whole life pretending to be straight and never experience true, reciprocal love because it makes someone else uncomfortable? Especially considering my gayness does not diminish the quality of life of others?

I just don't understand why people are so concerned about someone else's sexuality.

I’m not sure Heinola as the centrepiece will work for Arizona, but I’d be all over that. What do you figure the pluses would be?

I'm pretty awful at trade proposals haha. Maybe a low pick +Lambert?

 

[voyageur]

This post is so ignorant. There is nothing in Canada to allow "sikhs only marry within their own culture". I know a Sikh woman who is married to a white guy, Jujhar Khaira is sikh and has a white girlfriend. There is no Sharia law in Canada or any attempt to install Sharia law, that's a lie often promoted by those who have something against muslim people. Not sure why you are talking about irrelevant stuff like FGM which is banned in Canada and completely irrelevant to this discussion and Provorov.

Ask a Sikh about marrying a Sikh woman...They will tell you it's forbidden...Maybe that changes over the years. But it hasn't. Maybe you found one, but there isn't many...As for the rest I just gave examples of religious exemption, and both religions do not allow homosexuality, as you just saw in the World Cup. I think you might be the ignorant one, when your argument is so thin.

 

[gojetsgo]

Ask a Sikh about marrying a Sikh woman...They will tell you it's forbidden...Maybe that changes over the years. But it hasn't. Maybe you found one, but there isn't many...As for the rest I just gave examples of religious exemption, and both religions do not allow homosexuality, as you just saw in the World Cup. I think you might be the ignorant one, when your argument is so thin.

dude, you are clearly the ignorant person on this forum, remember when you openly admitted to being homophobic and went as far as to say that beach may have deserved the slurs from his teammates because they may have thought he was actually gay, you then went on to do exactly what provorov did and tried to hide behind religion

 

[snowkiddin]

I don't think anyone (or I at least) is trying to force anyone to believe in anything.

What becomes an issue for me is when actions of others minimizes a group of people, or affects their quality of life.

Of course, there are limits to this, such as a group who's behavior that hurts others.

However, as had been stated by others on this forum, I did not choose this life. I hated myself for a long time and tried 'not' to be gay. However, I have never had attraction to women, nor have I ever wanted to be romantically involved with one. I've never loved a woman (in a partner sense) but I've loved several men.

Should i suffer my whole life pretending to be straight and never experience true, reciprocal love because it makes someone else uncomfortable? Especially considering my gayness does not diminish the quality of life of others?

I just don't understand why people are so concerned about someone else's sexuality.


I'm pretty awful at trade proposals haha. Maybe a low pick +Lambert?

See, I was thinking actually a high pick plus Lambert or Lucius. Not crazy about giving up the pick but Chychrun would be a great add who fits our window well. Not sure how far off either of our proposals are.

 

[voyageur]

I don't think anyone (or I at least) is trying to force anyone to believe in anything.

What becomes an issue for me is when actions of others minimizes a group of people, or affects their quality of life.

Of course, there are limits to this, such as a group who's behavior that hurts others.

However, as had been stated by others on this forum, I did not choose this life. I hated myself for a long time and tried 'not' to be gay. However, I have never had attraction to women, nor have I ever wanted to be romantically involved with one. I've never loved a woman (in a partner sense) but I've loved several men.

Should i suffer my whole life pretending to be straight and never experience true, reciprocal love because it makes someone else uncomfortable? Especially considering my gayness does not diminish the quality of life of others?

I just don't understand why people are so concerned about someone else's sexuality.


I'm pretty awful at trade proposals haha. Maybe a low pick +Lambert?

That's an understandable statement. I grew up in a small town. One kid was definitely gay but not openly gay. He faced a lot discrimination. Eventually committed suicide. So I think being who you are is important. I also grew up in a town with only one fully native person. She was ran out of town for her race, the most hateful abuse you ever saw. She ended up in a life of prostitution and violence. We had one black family too, and they faced discrimination, but they rose above it.

dude, you are clearly the ignorant person on this forum, remember when you openly admitted to being homophobic and went as far as to say that beach may have deserved the slurs from his teammates because they may have thought he was actually gay, you then went on to do exactly what provorov did and tried to hide behind religion

If you can find that statement go ahead, because that's not what I said. I did say though that being molested as a kid made me pretty violent, if you want to read that part.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I think the crux of the Provorov issue is that he's taking a stand against something that people don't choose. It's furthering the opinion that it's okay to further marginalize already marginalized people for parts of their life they don't control. It's a bit of a slippery slope if you let people believe they can dismiss someone for something they have zero control over. It's the same argument towards allowing hate groups like the KKK to exist and I think the vast majority of people can understand why racism is bad.

Ask a straight person when they chose to be straight. As a straight person I couldn't tell you, because I didn't choose who I was attracted to when puberty hit. I think there's a misconception on here that it's a lifestyle choice to be LGBTQ+; that it's just a belief.

It's about right to exist and Provorov's actions showed he'd prefer if you don't, I don't even think that's debatable.

yep would be interesting if a player refused to wear a jersey for Asian heritage on canucks.

 

[raideralex99]

What have we learned today?
Do not question or call down someone’s religion … class demissed.
Let’s get back to hockey.

 

[Adam da bomb]

What have we learned today?
Do not question or call down someone’s religion … class demissed.
Let’s get back to hockey.

Because apparently religion is more important than someone’s right to exist. Also, religion is constantly changing, 50 years ago Judaism didn’t have female rabbis. What doesn’t change is ppl love who they love.

 

[SLAYER]

What have we learned today?
Do not question or call down someone’s religion … class demissed.
Let’s get back to hockey.

I don't see how anyone has learned that... in fact it's probably the exact opposite.

 

[Guffman]

Who the f*** honestly cares? Prov can do what he wants but it is nothing but hypocrisy using religion to hide behind. Honestly the only people that tend to care about these events being “virtue signaling” are people that don’t accept others that are different from them when it’s really none of your dam business. It truly has no impact on you. Wearing a jersey during warmups is such a small and petty hill to die on. It’s extremely closed minded.

Let’s be clear. It’s the media and those that support their views that are making a big stink that Prov didn’t participate in a warm-up wearing a rainbow jersey.

I didn’t care that he didn’t wear a rainbow shirt lol. It was his choice and the NHL clearly stated that it is up to the players to participate in events like this or not.

The issue that I have with all of this is media and others thinking he should be punished by and be subjected to ridicule and homophobe labelling and deprived of his right to choose what to support or not.

You’re right… this should have been a “who cares” story but clearly, it’s not because one side is interested it demonizing someone’s choice not to wear a rainbow shirt.

 

[Guffman]

Because apparently religion is more important than someone’s right to exist. Also, religion is constantly changing, 50 years ago Judaism didn’t have female rabbis. What doesn’t change is ppl love who they love.

Provorov said:

"I respect everybody's choices. My choice is to stay true to myself and my religion. That's all I'm going to say."

How do you twist that into thinking Provorov denies their right to exist? Did he say that? No. Do you infer that on his choice of not wearing a rainbow shirt?

If so… dude, come on. That is being totally disengenous.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Provorov said:

"I respect everybody's choices. My choice is to stay true to myself and my religion. That's all I'm going to say."

How do you twist that into thinking Provorov denies their right to exist? Did he say that? No. Do you infer that on his choice of not wearing a rainbow shirt?

If so… dude, come on. That is being totally disengenous.

Dude, man, buddy. I never said that. I said in my post, that in this debate of religion vs same sex rights. Religion changes and that everyone should be allowed to love who they love.
Also if you listen to people love is not a choice, people struggle to love someone who they should love. They just are not innately built that way.
I choose to drink. I am naturally attracted to women.
If a player going along with wearing rainbow will in some small way make acceptance of others more natural and reduce hatred of any kind, we all have to do what we can.
Where does my post mention Prov.

 

[Guffman]

Dude, man, buddy. I never said that. I said in my post, that in this debate of religion vs same sex rights. Religion changes and that everyone should be allowed to love who they love. Where does my post mention Prov.

People were critiquing that Prov raised religion so I thought you were trying to tie the event together with what you said. My error then. Apologies.

Unrelated to Prov…

Do divisional winners get a banner to hoist up to the rafters?

Jets 1.0 and 2.0 have NEVER won their division (how sad is that) so I am wondering if a banner is in play this season.

 

[Buffdog]

Personally, I don't think that the church OR the government should have any say in matters of the heart. Consenting adults should be able to live with/partner with/sleep with whomever they choose.

The main issue I have is how many of the things we are seeing from corporations are actually beneficial to the issues that they're trying to raise awareness for and how much of it is virtue signaling. I think @Jet and i have touched on his experiences growing up playing hockey as a gay guy in toxic dressing room environments (before being gently told to stfu about it by a mod since it was in a GDT lol). I don't think I ever got around to asking him what he thought could be done to fix the problem to actually make the sport feel more inclusive to gay kids (and somewhat ironically, there seems to be no problems on the female side of the sport - there are teenage girls I know who are openly dating teammates)

TL/DR I don't think that a team wearing a jersey for a warm up is gonna fix the problem

 

[tbcwpg]

Personally, I don't think that the church OR the government should have any say in matters of the heart. Consenting adults should be able to live with/partner with/sleep with whomever they choose.

The main issue I have is how many of the things we are seeing from corporations are actually beneficial to the issues that they're trying to raise awareness for and how much of it is virtue signaling. I think @Jet and i have touched on his experiences growing up playing hockey as a gay guy in toxic dressing room environments (before being gently told to stfu about it by a mod since it was in a GDT lol). I don't think I ever got around to asking him what he thought could be done to fix the problem to actually make the sport feel more inclusive to gay kids (and somewhat ironically, there seems to be no problems on the female side of the sport - there are teenage girls I know who are openly dating teammates)

TL/DR I don't think that a team wearing a jersey for a warm up is gonna fix the problem

Is wearing the jersey going to fix everything? Of course not. Not wearing it is a much louder message than wearing it is.

 

[CorgisPer60]

Is wearing the jersey going to fix everything? Of course not. Not wearing it is a much louder message than wearing it is.

Provorov also didn't participate in the auction fundraiser for the game worn jersey, so he's actively undermining it as well.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Personally, I don't think that the church OR the government should have any say in matters of the heart. Consenting adults should be able to live with/partner with/sleep with whomever they choose.

The main issue I have is how many of the things we are seeing from corporations are actually beneficial to the issues that they're trying to raise awareness for and how much of it is virtue signaling. I think @Jet and i have touched on his experiences growing up playing hockey as a gay guy in toxic dressing room environments (before being gently told to stfu about it by a mod since it was in a GDT lol). I don't think I ever got around to asking him what he thought could be done to fix the problem to actually make the sport feel more inclusive to gay kids (and somewhat ironically, there seems to be no problems on the female side of the sport - there are teenage girls I know who are openly dating teammates)

TL/DR I don't think that a team wearing a jersey for a warm up is gonna fix the problem

Can virtue signalling have positive repercussions as a result. Let’s say the nhl doesn’t care, but, lgbt ppl feel a little more accepted seeing their rainbow anyway.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Is wearing the jersey going to fix everything? Of course not. Not wearing it is a much louder message than wearing it is.

I think it’s like land acknowledgment. It won’t make a difference on its own but it’s a nod at a bigger problem. A start. If that is all, feels pretty empty but it can be a start hopefully of bigger actions/recognition.

 

[CorgisPer60]

Personally, I don't think that the church OR the government should have any say in matters of the heart. Consenting adults should be able to live with/partner with/sleep with whomever they choose.

The main issue I have is how many of the things we are seeing from corporations are actually beneficial to the issues that they're trying to raise awareness for and how much of it is virtue signaling. I think @Jet and i have touched on his experiences growing up playing hockey as a gay guy in toxic dressing room environments (before being gently told to stfu about it by a mod since it was in a GDT lol). I don't think I ever got around to asking him what he thought could be done to fix the problem to actually make the sport feel more inclusive to gay kids (and somewhat ironically, there seems to be no problems on the female side of the sport - there are teenage girls I know who are openly dating teammates)

TL/DR I don't think that a team wearing a jersey for a warm up is gonna fix the problem

Thing is Jet isn't the token gay guy that has all the answers, and shouldn't be made to come up with the ideas on how to make the sport more inclusive.

For your TL;DR, representation matters. Having a show of solidarity matters. The jerseys matter. They even auction them off for charitible donations afterwards. You Can Play is important to the league.