Around the league part 2

[unicornpig]

Looking at the Patrick Marleau retirement ceremony and it looked cheap compare to Brown's, Patty deserved better.

Patty didn't bring them a cup and didn't even play his whole career there

 

[LAKings88]

Pool party traded to Carolina. Oilers freeing up cap space to make a move. In on all the same D as LA apparently.

Prices are still high.

 

[Schrute farms]

I have been a Kings fan for decades. I know the diffference between a pretender and a contender when I see it.

As a real fan I am looking for the foundation of a team that has the opportunity to contend within the next 3-5 seasons. That isn't a team with this roster of players.

Other "fans" can be critical of those who have said the Fiala trade has the potential to be fool's gold, but unless Fiala is still around in three seasons (when he will be 29 years of age) and producing as he is now, what was the purpose of the deal?

We live in a world where there are multiple NHL GMs who know when they have the goods to be contenders, and when they do not. Simply getting into the playoffs (with this organization's "anything can happen" BS thinking) isn't a plan. It is a hope.

Some of us still remember what we saw leading up to three straight appearances in the Western Conference Final and two Stanley Cup victories, and what the Kings are doing right now, isn't it.

That's always been the problem with this rebuild or reload or whatever you want to call it. this roster was never a Pitt or Boston type that could add some youth & 1-2 pieces to contend/win a SC. In reality, it should have been a full rebuild and one or more of DD, Kopi & Quick should have been traded. Thus tanking for picks while allowing the youth to develop.

You keep 1-2 vets around who want to stay and they can be the guys who the youth lean on for guidance and learning the ropes. Brown was always going to be one of those guys. Kopi seems like a guy who would want to stay as well. That leaves DD as the guy they should have traded. He wanted to win badly. It wasn't going to happen the past 4-5 years with the Kings. You trade him rather placate him with a team that can possibly make the playoffs at best. Quick then would get traded if he wanted to go and be "the man" and win. If he wanted to stay a King for life and ride things out as a vet locker room presence, then that's his decision.

But we did a kinda in kinda out dance. Maybe it works out if Clarke, QB, Turc, etc. eventually become stars in years 23+. But right now, it's a bit of an odd mix. what will happen once Kopi, DD and even PD hit the walls in their performance and become liabilities. Hopefully the youth are ready & able to take the reins and elevate into franchise players/stars. Time will tell.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

That's always been the problem with this rebuild or reload or whatever you want to call it. this roster was never a Pitt or Boston type that could add some youth & 1-2 pieces to contend/win a SC. In reality, it should have been a full rebuild and one or more of DD, Kopi & Quick should have been traded. Thus tanking for picks while allowing the youth to develop.

Not going to go over this in depth AGAIN -- but people like you forget that at the end of the day, this is a business -- it's not f***ing XBOX.

 

[kilowatt]

If Ekholm is really worth two first round picks, we should see what we can get for guys like Roy, Walker, Durzi, Iafallo, Moore, and Arvidsson. Even without those guys, we can mostly field an NHL roster. If we get a couple first- and second-round picks from those players, we'd be in really good shape. I'm convinced that underpaying at the draft (a la Fiala) is the key to building a great team, not overpaying at the trade deadline.

If we're not moving on from Quick this season, then we ought to think beyond just this season.

Kempe - Kopitar - Vilardi
Fiala - Danault - Kaliyev
Turcotte - Byfield - Kupari
JAD - Lizotte - Fagemo

Anderson - Doughty
Bjornfot - Spence
Moverare - Clarke

 

[KINGS17]

The frustration comes not from what the team is doing, but from the perception that with some better choices it could be significantly better. Even without trades there’s a view that the team would be better with Björnfot and Spence (playing regularly not in spot duty) and that’s not a crazy notion even if you don’t agree. Obviously there is frustration that trades aren’t made to fill the roster holes and the perception that it’s easy to do (which it is not). We can argue about those perceptions but some of them at least have ‘some’ credence especially when the Goal and LD issues were apparent long before training camp opened.

Yes, when you try to fill every hole in the roster using a trade, this is what the GM ends up doing:

The answer: Build a better dike, and patch a single hole, two at most with trades.

 

[AbsentMojo]

If Ekholm is really worth two first round picks, we should see what we can get for guys like Roy, Walker, Durzi, Iafallo, Moore, and Arvidsson. Even without those guys, we can mostly field an NHL roster. If we get a couple first- and second-round picks from those players, we'd be in really good shape. I'm convinced that underpaying at the draft (a la Fiala) is the key to building a great team, not overpaying at the trade deadline.

I agree that with the arms race in the east, it would probably be wise to be a seller... not popular amongst fans, but there are so many forwards and right D, it could be a move that doesnt impact the teams current chances much and starts patching the obvious holes.

 

[kilowatt]

I agree that with the arms race in the east, it would probably be wise to be a seller... not popular amongst fans, but there are so many forwards and right D, it could be a move that doesnt impact the teams current chances much and starts patching the obvious holes.

I'm not saying let's trade all of them either, but if trading, say, Roy and Arvidsson nets us two firsts and a second we should think about it. Maybe we can turn those picks into a good RFA on a cap-crunched team in the offseason.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

 

[tny760]

If Ekholm is really worth two first round picks, we should see what we can get for guys like Roy, Walker, Durzi, Iafallo, Moore, and Arvidsson. Even without those guys, we can mostly field an NHL roster. If we get a couple first- and second-round picks from those players, we'd be in really good shape. I'm convinced that underpaying at the draft (a la Fiala) is the key to building a great team, not overpaying at the trade deadline.

If we're not moving on from Quick this season, then we ought to think beyond just this season.

Kempe - Kopitar - Vilardi
Fiala - Danault - Kaliyev
Turcotte - Byfield - Kupari
JAD - Lizotte - Fagemo

Anderson - Doughty
Bjornfot - Spence
Moverare - Clarke

eh, price starts at 2 so realistically it probably nets a 1st and a 2nd. won't get the retention like the mccabe deal since ekholm is more than mccabe. i think a lot of the defenseman stuff right now is just lefties though so our guys won't pull as much. don't think we're selling unless we get one of those unicorn deals done where both teams get what they need

i agree with you though about thinking beyond the season which is why i don't think we really need to be overpaying for one of these 2-3 year guys. gavrikov probably makes the most sense but if that no-go on the extension rumor is true, i guess that's over with.

 

[bland]

Not going to go over this in depth AGAIN -- but people like you forget that at the end of the day, this is a business -- it's not f***ing XBOX.

A business that has largely failed then, right?

Attendance and ratings down to go with what, 5 home playoff games of revenue in their time in charge?

You could make the argument that they are worse failures in the business aspects of the game than managing the on-ice product.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

The frustration comes not from what the team is doing, but from the perception that with some better choices it could be significantly better. Even without trades there’s a view that the team would be better with Björnfot and Spence (playing regularly not in spot duty) and that’s not a crazy notion even if you don’t agree. Obviously there is frustration that trades aren’t made to fill the roster holes and the perception that it’s easy to do (which it is not). We can argue about those perceptions but some of them at least have ‘some’ credence especially when the Goal and LD issues were apparent long before training camp opened.

And those are all 100% valid.....I've acknowledged that....it's the...we can't beat good teams the way we are...nonsense...when...we have beaten good teams....that's the nonsense that makes me wonder WTF you are cheering on then.....

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

A business that has largely failed then, right?

Attendance and ratings down to go with what, 5 home playoff games of revenue in their time in charge?

You don't think the owner has any say in how the business is run? You think Luc and Blake are given full reign to do whatever they want and ultimately they are failing -- is that the narrative here?

 

[johnjm22]

If Ekholm is really worth two first round picks, we should see what we can get for guys like Roy, Walker, Durzi, Iafallo, Moore, and Arvidsson. Even without those guys, we can mostly field an NHL roster. If we get a couple first- and second-round picks from those players, we'd be in really good shape. I'm convinced that underpaying at the draft (a la Fiala) is the key to building a great team, not overpaying at the trade deadline.

If we're not moving on from Quick this season, then we ought to think beyond just this season.

Kempe - Kopitar - Vilardi
Fiala - Danault - Kaliyev
Turcotte - Byfield - Kupari
JAD - Lizotte - Fagemo

Anderson - Doughty
Bjornfot - Spence
Moverare - Clarke

Walker = no value (Troy Stretcher comp)

Iafallo/Moore = Puljujarvi Return

Arvidsson = Nino Return

Roy = Muzzin Return IMO

Durzi's value is really difficult to gauge.

 

[kilowatt]

eh, price starts at 2 so realistically it probably nets a 1st and a 2nd. won't get the retention like the mccabe deal since ekholm is more than mccabe. i think a lot of the defenseman stuff right now is just lefties though so our guys won't pull as much. don't think we're selling unless we get one of those unicorn deals done where both teams get what they need

i agree with you though about thinking beyond the season which is why i don't think we really need to be overpaying for one of these 2-3 year guys. gavrikov probably makes the most sense but if that no-go on the extension rumor is true, i guess that's over with.

The only I'd pony up for is Chychrun, because he likely wants to be with LA on a longer term deal. I just don't think hes a 1D, so paying a 1D price doesn't make a ton of sense to me. At the same time, I wonder if a deal around Kaliyev and Chychrun makes sense? It would hurt losing Kaliyev, but I sometimes wonder if he's a guy that'll be able to perform in the playoffs. It's the same reason I wonder about Durzi. Both are great on the powerplay and brutal in the defensive zone.

 

[Schrute farms]

My whole post gets deleted? seriously? take one word or sentence out -- ok. But the whole thing really?
Yet we have a guy who yells at people on here and belittles people to the point of so many putting him on ignore. ok smh

 

[Schrute farms]

Not going to go over this in depth AGAIN -- but people like you forget that at the end of the day, this is a business -- it's not f***ing XBOX.

So was it a business when they traded Carter, Muzzin, AMart, Toffoli, Clifford, Pearson, Gabs, etc for futures? Or was that Blake playing XBOX?

 

[bland]

You don't think the owner has any say in how the business is run? You think Luc and Blake are given full reign to do whatever they want and ultimately they are failing -- is that the narrative here?

The narrative here is that this has been a poorly run franchise under Blake as general manager. And no, neither you or I could state with any certainty what this absentee ownership group thinks. You want to use that as evidence for some quarter baked, half witted argument, be my guest.

No playoff success, declining attendance and what is amounting to a disappointing rebuild. Yeah, try to argue that one.

So was it a business when they traded Carter, Muzzin, AMart, Toffoli, Clifford, Pearson, Gabs, etc for futures? Or was that Blake playing XBOX?

Hey, hey hey - Gabs wasn't traded for futures, he was traded for a more expensive moldy oldy.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

No playoff success, declining attendance and what is amounting to a disappointing rebuild. Yeah, try to argue that one.

A year ahead of schedule and battling for 1st in the Western Conference ... soooooo disappointing.

 

[Schrute farms]

Hey, hey hey - Gabs wasn't traded for futures, he was traded for a more expensive moldy oldy.

True -- no real future asset received in that deal. But in essence, he was traded to move onto the future and give a roster spot for someone younger. A huge piece of the 2014 SC winning team that was tossed away for nothing and moved out like yesterday's old fish. Kinda sounds like a business...and not Xbox or overly sentimental fan.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

So was it a business when they traded Carter, Muzzin, AMart, Toffoli, Clifford, Pearson, Gabs, etc for futures? Or was that Blake playing XBOX?

Yah, I answered this already in the post that you called me an idiot AND a twat...so I'll try again for you:

Carter, Muzzin, Amart, go down the list....are NOT Kopitar, Quick and Doughty. One of those groups will have their numbers raised to the roof and one won't. You are a sharp dude (and probably very handsome), I'll let you figure that out.

 

[Maynard]

My whole post gets deleted? seriously? take one word or sentence out -- ok. But the whole thing really?
Yet we have a guy who yells at people on here and belittles people to the point of so many putting him on ignore. ok smh

Yeah it’s a joke. A couple of guys shit on every thread, derailing every honest conversation that’s being had and throwing tantrums at anyone who isn’t hungrily feasting on Todd’s balls and that’s perfectly fine, but if you call someone a dummy you get infracted and restricted for a personal attack.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Yeah it’s a joke. A couple of guys shit on every thread, derailing every honest conversation that’s being had and throwing tantrums at anyone who isn’t hungrily feasting on Todd’s balls and that’s perfectly fine, but if you call someone a dummy you get infracted and restricted for a personal attack.

I know, I've been complaining about this forever .. I've been banned from the main thread for like 3 months now!

 

[Schrute farms]

Yah, I answered this already in the post that you called me an idiot AND a twat...so I'll try again for you:

Carter, Muzzin, Amart, go down the list....are NOT Kopitar, Quick and Doughty. One of those groups will have their numbers raised to the roof and one won't. You are a sharp dude (and probably very handsome), I'll let you figure that out.

oh, yeah i get it. Guys who will have their jerseys are not allowed to be traded. Just on the Kings alone: Blake, Dionne, Luc, Gretzy. Every single one except for Vachon was traded lol. Maybe your Kings knowledge only started with TM

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

oh, yeah i get it. Guys who will have their jerseys are not allowed to be traded. Just on the Kings alone: Blake, Dionne, Luc, Gretzy. Every single one except for Vachon was traded lol.

Talking about a post without context....jesus....where do you even start with this nonsense?

 

[Schmooley]

A year ahead of schedule and battling for 1st in the Western Conference ... soooooo disappointing.

You have to look at the context though. The west is really bad this year. Half the teams are actively tanking for a deep draft and now a lot of good players are being shipped to the east.
The Kings are flawed but still pretty good. In a normal year where theres a bunch of teams in the mix at this time your probably looking at more of a wildcard slot.
Blake can make a big move if he thinks its worth it right now but I dont think anyone would be too upset if he holds tight with what hes got and keeps the slow boil going.
He said he doesnt wanna take away from the roster but man these prices are so wild he could get so much more for his middle roster guys now than he did with the cup winners he sold off 3 years ago. And now he has a pipeline that could replace what is traded instead of having to bring in guys like Hagelin Leipsic and AA.