Around the league part 2

[GoldenBearHockey]

You have to look at the context though. The west is really bad this year. Half the teams are actively tanking for a deep draft and now a lot of good players are being shipped to the east.
The Kings are flawed but still pretty good. In a normal year where theres a bunch of teams in the mix at this time your probably looking at more of a wildcard slot.
Blake can make a big move if he thinks its worth it right now but I dont think anyone would be too upset if he holds tight with what hes got and keeps the slow boil going.
He said he doesnt wanna take away from the roster but man these prices are so wild he could get so much more for his middle roster guys now than he did with the cup winners he sold off 3 years ago. And now he has a pipeline that could replace what is traded instead of having to bring in guys like Hagelin Leipsic and AA.

This doesn't make any sense, the Kings are only good....because the West is really bad....so the other teams in the West....are they only good because the West is bad too?

See this is what I am talking about.....just in general not you directly Schmooley....Kings are a top 3 team in the Western Conference right now....and the only thing people can say is, because the West is bad......and between the two, East and West, yes the West is definitely worse, but DAL, VGK, EDM, CGY, COL all play in the West as well......so are they only good because the West is bad?

 

[Brownie to Pancakes]

And those are all 100% valid.....I've acknowledged that....it's the...we can't beat good teams the way we are...nonsense...when...we have beaten good teams....that's the nonsense that makes me wonder WTF you are cheering on then.....

Nobody has ever said we can't beat good teams at all under any circumstance. The argument, which I agree with, is that they don't have the makeup to beat top teams in series format. Regular season results are not a good counterargument--didn't the freaking Coyotes beat Boston this year? Playoff hockey is a different animal and I think that the flaws of this team could be uniquely exposed during a series. Physicality goes up, we lack physicality. Special teams become magnified, our PK is streaky at best and terrible at worst. We have a mistake-prone second D pairing and a constantly overmatched third, savvy opponents will exploit that as often as possible and it will compound over several games. We generally play pretty chickenshit when we have a nice lead. And we know going into almost any series that we will be outcoached simply because it's Todd back there. In the adjustment game, it's not unlikely that we will get worse over a series while the opp will get stronger. Of course it's possible that they overcome some of these weaknesses, and I will be thrilled if they do. But if they get beaten up, go cold on the PP and stay cold on the PK, Edler is a -8 for the series, and/or we don't call a timeout during a backbreaking comeback, I'm coming right back to this post.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

In the West there really aren't better teams....they are all flawed.....as far as the bold, that's where...the youth come in to a point, that killer instict is developed on the team level.....coaching definitely adds to it, a Sutter, Keenan, Torterrla type etc, this almost has the feel of......Terry Murray.....then Daryll Sutter coming in etc, not that I think that TM is going anywhere, and I don't know if there is a type out there with that killer instinct to replace him if he went....

With the roster, my problem is.....every loss.....it's OMG this roster stinks......ok...fine, it's a loss.....the problem is.....with every win...it's OMG we barely win despite the roster.......

Can't have it both ways....

What I like about this team.
-Most offensive weapons since 2012.
-I really like Arty and Gabe taking baby steps.
-When they have their foot on the pedal they are a buzzsaw!

What I don’t like about the team.
-They take nights off.
-too many redundant players.
- missing physical presence
-goaltending is sometimes decent sometimes shit it never steals us points.
-can’t hold big leads.
-Todd can not make the right adjustments mid game.

This team play exciting regular season hockey and is fun to watch but, they are not built to win in the playoffs. Our weaknesses are not what wins a playoff series!

This team is a great collection of talent. It is not a well oiled machine.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Nobody has ever said we can't beat good teams at all under any circumstance. The argument, which I agree with, is that they don't have the makeup to beat top teams in series format. Regular season results are not a good counterargument--didn't the freaking Coyotes beat Boston this year? Playoff hockey is a different animal and I think that the flaws of this team could be uniquely exposed during a series. Physicality goes up, we lack physicality. Special teams become magnified, our PK is streaky at best and terrible at worst. We have a mistake-prone second D pairing and a constantly overmatched third, savvy opponents will exploit that as often as possible and it will compound over several games. We generally play pretty chickenshit when we have a nice lead. And we know going into almost any series that we will be outcoached simply because it's Todd back there. In the adjustment game, it's not unlikely that we will get worse over a series while the opp will get stronger. Of course it's possible that they overcome some of these weaknesses, and I will be thrilled if they do. But if they get beaten up, go cold on the PP and stay cold on the PK, Edler is a -8 for the series, and/or we don't call a timeout during a backbreaking comeback, I'm coming right back to this post.

Perfect, now show me a team that DOESN'T HAVE FLAWS.....

No one is saying LA is without flaws....but are we really sitting here saying we can't beat EDM in a 7 game series? We can't beat VGS in a 7 game series? COL, DAL, WPG?

There's not a single team in the West....LA included that doesn't have major flaws right now....to act as if we are the only ones, makes no sense....

And it could go down 100% the way you said, but it also could not.....and what I am saying is that "fans" who are bitching about WINNING....are closing themselves off to that.....and it doesn't make sense....

 

[kingsfan28]

The frustration comes not from what the team is doing, but from the perception that with some better choices it could be significantly better. Even without trades there’s a view that the team would be better with Björnfot and Spence (playing regularly not in spot duty) and that’s not a crazy notion even if you don’t agree. Obviously there is frustration that trades aren’t made to fill the roster holes and the perception that it’s easy to do (which it is not). We can argue about those perceptions but some of them at least have ‘some’ credence especially when the Goal and LD issues were apparent long before training camp opened.

You can't just ask any team who a LHD or goalie lets trade. Both have to want to make a deal, one that works for both team. ARZ ask over the summer was insane, it's come down a bit, but no way is Chychrun worth 2 first and two top prospects. He's a better version of Muzzin but with more injuries.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

What I like about this team.
-Most offensive weapons since 2012.
-I really like Arty and Gabe taking baby steps.
-When they have their foot on the pedal they are a buzzsaw!

What I don’t like about the team.
-They take nights off.
-too many redundant players.
- missing physical presence
-goaltending is sometimes decent sometimes shit it never steals us points.
-can’t hold big leads.
-Todd can not make the right adjustments mid game.

Disagree with some of it, not all of it...... A. can't hold big leads, that's a FALLACY.....just humor me and tell me how many BIG leads they've given up (yes they absolutely have given up some) but it's not as prevalent as everyone wants it to be. B.) every team takes nights off, show me one who hasn't, thats a pro sports issue, not an LA King issue, C) redundant players, to a point....but not sure why depth is an issue, tell me how depth is a bad thing?

 

[KINGS17]

I agree that with the arms race in the east, it would probably be wise to be a seller... not popular amongst fans, but there are so many forwards and right D, it could be a move that doesnt impact the teams current chances much and starts patching the obvious holes.

My whole post gets deleted? seriously? take one word or sentence out -- ok. But the whole thing really?
Yet we have a guy who yells at people on here and belittles people to the point of so many putting him on ignore. ok smh

Obviously, the mods have that guy on "Ignore".

 

[KINGS17]

Perfect, now show me a team that DOESN'T HAVE FLAWS.....

No one is saying LA is without flaws....but are we really sitting here saying we can't beat EDM in a 7 game series? We can't beat VGS in a 7 game series? COL, DAL, WPG?

There's not a single team in the West....LA included that doesn't have major flaws right now....to act as if we are the only ones, makes no sense....

And it could go down 100% the way you said, but it also could not.....and what I am saying is that "fans" who are bitching about WINNING....are closing themselves off to that.....and it doesn't make sense....

Yes, this is what I am saying. The Kings chances of beating Vegas, Colorado, or Dallas in a 7-game series are between slim and none.

Probably give them one chance in four against Edmonton.

 

[Schmooley]

This doesn't make any sense, the Kings are only good....because the West is really bad....so the other teams in the West....are they only good because the West is bad too?

See this is what I am talking about.....just in general not you directly Schmooley....Kings are a top 3 team in the Western Conference right now....and the only thing people can say is, because the West is bad......and between the two, East and West, yes the West is definitely worse, but DAL, VGK, EDM, CGY, COL all play in the West as well......so are they only good because the West is bad?

No its not only about the top teams in the west.
Half the west is actively tanking now and some even came into the season with horrid rosters on purpose.
Its not that the teams you stated are bad but there would normally be a couple that are solidly leading the conference, then another tier, then a 3-4 team wildcard race.
It looks more like the good teams are in a middle/upper middle class race jockeying for position.
Even the good teams are flawed in the west and when you have a shot like this without even going all in its pretty rare.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yes, this is what I am saying. The Kings chances of beating Vegas, Colorado, or Dallas in a 7-game series are between slim and none.

Probably give them one chance in four against Edmonton.

Because VGS, COL and DAL are what, super teams and have no flaws? What is your reasoning other than...Blake and Robitaille suck...so the team must suck?

No its not only about the top teams in the west.
Half the west is actively tanking now and some even came into the season with horrid rosters on purpose.
Its not that the teams you stated are bad but there would normally be a couple that are solidly leading the conference, then another tier, then a 3-4 team wildcard race.
It looks more like the good teams are in a middle/upper middle class race jockeying for position.
Even the good teams are flawed in the west and when you have a shot like this without even going all in its pretty rare.

So, then why doesn't LA have the same shot?

 

[kilowatt]

Walker = no value (Troy Stretcher comp)

Iafallo/Moore = Puljujarvi Return

Arvidsson = Nino Return

Roy = Muzzin Return IMO

Durzi's value is really difficult to gauge.

Walker might net a late round pick. I agree he holds zero value. Moving him would be more for the cap space moving into next season. A team might be interested in a low-cost depth option.

I think Iafallo and Moore are worth a lot more than what Puljujarvi got. Not saying they'll get a Tanner Jeannot return, but their comparisons aren't too far off:

Alex Iafallo vs. Tanner Jeannot: Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com

Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of Alex Iafallo and Tanner Jeannot including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.com

stathead.com

Trevor Moore vs. Tanner Jeannot: Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com

Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of Trevor Moore and Tanner Jeannot including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.com

stathead.com

I agree with Arvidsson's value, Nino is a pretty good comp for him.

Roy is really interesting. His top contract comparables are Ryan Graves, Mackenzie Weegar, Vladislav Gavrikov, and Gustav Forsling. He's two years younger than McCabe, costs less, has better peripheral stats, and plays the more valuable side.

The Muzzin trade comp is pretty fair, and I would love a first and a good prospect or two.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

Disagree with some of it, not all of it...... A. can't hold big leads, that's a FALLACY.....just humor me and tell me how many BIG leads they've given up (yes they absolutely have given up some) but it's not as prevalent as everyone wants it to be. B.) every team takes nights off, show me one who hasn't, thats a pro sports issue, not an LA King issue, C) redundant players, to a point....but not sure why depth is an issue, tell me how depth is a bad thing?

7 leads of 3 or more they failed to get 2 points.

Depth is not a problem but we have holes that could be filled through the redundancies.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Perfect, now show me a team that DOESN'T HAVE FLAWS.....

No one is saying LA is without flaws....but are we really sitting here saying we can't beat EDM in a 7 game series? We can't beat VGS in a 7 game series? COL, DAL, WPG?

There's not a single team in the West....LA included that doesn't have major flaws right now....to act as if we are the only ones, makes no sense....

And it could go down 100% the way you said, but it also could not.....and what I am saying is that "fans" who are bitching about WINNING....are closing themselves off to that.....and it doesn't make sense....

Kings are close to being able to terrorize the West.
Blake needs to address the goalie situation.

He needs to set the D. All these pieces, just make a trade for the vet LD move Durzi off the left side & decide who you want to move & keep.

Forwards are a jumbled mess too, but if Byfield goes back to center next year everything snaps back into place. Including Iafallo on the top line.

Just address the issues Blake. They've been here all season. 3 days left.

 

[Schmooley]

So, then why doesn't LA have the same shot?

I 100% think they have a shot but I cant speak for everyone. But Im not under the illusion that what they have is a juggernaut for the next decade. They have a little window in a whacky season and need to shore up some things going forward.
I think if Colorado gets on track and Oettinger steps up that those will be their biggest obstacles but no one is unbeatable.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I 100% think they have a shot but I cant speak for everyone. But Im not under the illusion that what they have is a juggernaut for the next decade. They have a little window in a whacky season and need to shore up some things going forward.
I think if Colorado gets on track and Oettinger steps up that those will be their biggest obstacles but no one is unbeatable.

Then I misread you, I don't see any team being juggernauts for the next decade....I mean shit, Tampa is nearing the end of their run, as is Boston....etc....you should...should...have BUF, OTT, NJD, DET rise up sometime in the next 10 etc...

7 leads of 3 or more they failed to get 2 points.

Depth is not a problem but we have holes that could be filled through the redundancies.

Link to that, because last time I looked (granted 2 weeks ago or more) it was....they lost 3 leads going into the 3rd period....thats any leads...etc.

 

[bmr]

That's always been the problem with this rebuild or reload or whatever you want to call it. this roster was never a Pitt or Boston type that could add some youth & 1-2 pieces to contend/win a SC. In reality, it should have been a full rebuild and one or more of DD, Kopi & Quick should have been traded. Thus tanking for picks while allowing the youth to develop.

You keep 1-2 vets around who want to stay and they can be the guys who the youth lean on for guidance and learning the ropes. Brown was always going to be one of those guys. Kopi seems like a guy who would want to stay as well. That leaves DD as the guy they should have traded. He wanted to win badly. It wasn't going to happen the past 4-5 years with the Kings. You trade him rather placate him with a team that can possibly make the playoffs at best. Quick then would get traded if he wanted to go and be "the man" and win. If he wanted to stay a King for life and ride things out as a vet locker room presence, then that's his decision.

But we did a kinda in kinda out dance. Maybe it works out if Clarke, QB, Turc, etc. eventually become stars in years 23+. But right now, it's a bit of an odd mix. what will happen once Kopi, DD and even PD hit the walls in their performance and become liabilities. Hopefully the youth are ready & able to take the reins and elevate into franchise players/stars. Time will tell.

You make some good points, but I think we are a lot closer to contending than people think. Quick's contract is coming off the books, Blake will likely address the LHD deficiency in the offseason and we are locking up core players in their prime at reasonable cap hits. Outside of being stronger defensively this year, what are we really lacking? You add another Mikey Anderson type and an excellent goalie and we really have no holes.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You make some good points, but I think we are a lot closer to contending than people think. Quick's contract is coming off the books, Blake will likely address the LHD deficiency in the offseason and we are locking up core players in their prime at reasonable cap hits. Outside of being stronger defensively this year, what are we really lacking? You add another Mikey Anderson type and an excellent goalie and we really have no holes.

A bit more grit in the bottom six, I would say....and possibly a tough as nails coach.....I said earlier this is reminding me more and more of Terry Murray to Daryll Sutter......problem is there really is no coach like that available....

 

[BigKing]

When talking about the Edmonton series, don't forget that they got absolutely waxed 6-0 and 8-2 in two of the games and choked away a lead in a game that went to OT which they won 5-4. Game 7 was a heroic effort from Quick as they were completely dominated.

Are they "better" than last year? Scoring wise yes but the goaltending situation is a giant hole and they could get motorboated quite easily by Edmonton.

 

[johnjm22]

Walker might net a late round pick. I agree he holds zero value. Moving him would be more for the cap space moving into next season. A team might be interested in a low-cost depth option.

I think Iafallo and Moore are worth a lot more than what Puljujarvi got. Not saying they'll get a Tanner Jeannot return, but their comparisons aren't too far off:

View attachment 659151

Alex Iafallo vs. Tanner Jeannot: Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com

Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of Alex Iafallo and Tanner Jeannot including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.com

stathead.com

View attachment 659152

Trevor Moore vs. Tanner Jeannot: Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com

Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of Trevor Moore and Tanner Jeannot including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.com

stathead.com

I agree with Arvidsson's value, Nino is a pretty good comp for him.

Roy is really interesting. His top contract comparables are Ryan Graves, Mackenzie Weegar, Vladislav Gavrikov, and Gustav Forsling. He's two years younger than McCabe, costs less, has better peripheral stats, and plays the more valuable side.

View attachment 659154

The Muzzin trade comp is pretty fair, and I would love a first and a good prospect or two.

Iafallo and Moore are both better players than Jeannot IMO. I don't think Jeannot will ever repeat what he did last year.

Obviously, we can't really extrapolate anything from the Jeannot trade. It's a total insane outlier. People in hockey fall in love with physical players and a lot of his overvaluing came from that.

If you tried to trade Iafallo/Moore right now, I think it would be hard to find takers. Tanner Pearson is probably a decent comp.

Roy has quietly developed into a very high quality defenseman.

Durzi is 24yo, right shot, on pace for 45 points, grades out well on the analytics, is signed for 1.7M this year and next, then he's an RFA. There's got to be some significant value there.

 

[Choralone]

Anaheim just sent LD Henry Thrun to the Sharks for a 2024 3rd round pick. I

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

Then I misread you, I don't see any team being juggernauts for the next decade....I mean shit, Tampa is nearing the end of their run, as is Boston....etc....you should...should...have BUF, OTT, NJD, DET rise up sometime in the next 10 etc...



Link to that, because last time I looked (granted 2 weeks ago or more) it was....they lost 3 leads going into the 3rd period....thats any leads...etc.

Devils 2/23

Canes 1/31

Rangers 11/22

Ducks 10/8

Capitals 10/22

Jets 10/27

Kraken 11/29

 

[bland]

You make some good points, but I think we are a lot closer to contending than people think. Quick's contract is coming off the books, Blake will likely address the LHD deficiency in the offseason and we are locking up core players in their prime at reasonable cap hits. Outside of being stronger defensively this year, what are we really lacking? You add another Mikey Anderson type and an excellent goalie and we really have no holes.

Aside from goaltending, size on the wing and on defense, piss poor defensive alignments and the kind of mental resiliency needed to maintain leads even in regular season games...

The only thing they really do have is the ability to beat a lot of teams in track meets. This team is MUCH further away from contending than you think.

 

[Master Yoda]

Looks like Rangers are getting Kane for peanuts

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Devils 2/23 - 2-0... in the 1st got a point

Canes 1/31 - Finally, we got one...4-1 end of 2...yea thats a problem

Rangers 11/22 - 2-0, 1st period...again.

Ducks 10/8 - a PRESEASON GAME????

Capitals 10/22 - Same, 2-0 in the 1st period.

Jets 10/27 - Biggest lead again, 3-1 in the 1st period.

Kraken 11/29 - When did LA have a large lead??? It was back and forth all game, biggest lead they had was 1-0 16 seconds into the game

I'm starting to think we are talking about apples and oranges here, because you showed ONE game where they had a "BIG LEAD" and didn't get points...

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

I'm starting to think we are talking about apples and oranges here, because you showed ONE game where they had a "BIG LEAD" and didn't get points...

Do I said didn’t get 2 points