Value of: Andrei Kuzmenko

[Qwijibo]

Kuzmenko a healthy scratch again tonight. Not trade related, they just think they're a better team with PDG in the lineup over Kuzmenko.

 

[pman25]

Caps can keep Mantha. I see Jensen as more of a fit for VAN being a RHD and with Bear joining it’s a little crowded now on that side. Although, caps have a lot of wingers so someone else needs to move. Maybe Milano?

 

[Legion34]

Doesn’t healthy scratching him just destroy his value.
Over 5 with term is tough to move

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Doesn’t healthy scratching him just destroy his value.
Over 5 with term is tough to move

It does indeed.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Can't really be surprised that a dead asset for the last couple years is still viewed as a dead asset after a decent 30 games. Glad to hear he's doing better but I would not trust that sample size if I'm a GM.

Fair points. I don’t think the overall narrative is correct though, but could just be me. He was on a 25+25 pace through December last season, then got nicked up and came back and sucked and Lavi dogged him. Mantha had zero confidence after Laviolette was done with him — he looked like a broken dude who didn’t trust anything he saw or knew on the ice.

Mantha has had a tough go in DC. He was traded at the tail end of Covid and had a solid start but was snake bit in the playoffs, then he missed half the season due to injury the next year (and was on a 20+30 pace for the half he did play), and last year he started strong but admittedly was total ass the second half of the year. And he had all that production mainly at even strength.

I think Mantha is considered a perpetually underwhelming player because his size and skill set is a rare blend and people expect him — perhaps rightfully so — to dominate. A guy his size should not have the hands he does. He just always leaves you wanting more which I think makes him a frustrating player to watch. If you accept him for what he is, a guy who will likely pot you 20+20 if he stays healthy and will be a solid middle six winger, then you’ll appreciate him. He’s never going to be the dominant top line scorer people expected but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a useful player.

He also was going to have to be an absolute monster to ever win over the fans in DC because Vrana was beloved here and people were pissed with a capital P about the trade. His injuries and inconsistency did him no favors with the fans.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Pinto?

 

[Petes2424]

Pageau isn’t a cap dump. He’s probably 1.5M overpaid. He plays our toughest minutes and does so admirably.

Hronek is playing with the literal Norris frontrunner, I’m not sure how you can argue Dobson is playing with a better D partner, and half of our D core is on the IR. The fact that you’re even offering up Hronek is indicative of the fact that their values aren’t on the same level. I don’t know one isles fan that would include Dobson in any trade offer right now. They may be close in points but they’re really not very close in value IMO.

Not a manager in the league would take Hronek over Dobson. One is proving he can carry a pairing and Hronek’s Achilles Heel, continues to be his inability to do so. That equals major value in the NHL.
I enjoy watching the opponents broadcast during games. Mostly just to hear their opinions. A few weeks ago, during that blowout against San Jose, one of the Sharks announcers describing Hronek, hit the nail on the head. He said about Hronek, “just collect all the advantages of playing with someone who’s currently playing on another planet, and don’t do anything stupid.”

My problem, along with many others, remains….. The Canucks aren’t getting what they paid for. They didn’t pay for a new sidekick for Hughes. They paid for a player who can run a defensive pairing in the NHL. Teams who have two, win playoff rounds. Teams who have one, go home early. Ask Vegas, and ask the Leafs the difference.

Until Hronek shows he can do this, they didn’t get what they paid for, and nobody is trading you a younger player who’s already showing he can.

As for the Pageau angle? Once again, who you putting on the ice in a playoff game? Kuzmenko or Pageau? I guarantee Lou knows the answer to that question. Until Kuzmenko can show he can produce consistently against the adjustments opponents have made against him, his value isnt very much. They’re taking space away from him, because they know he can score in space now. You can literally scout him 2 games and see what his issue is. He’s not creating space in traffic, and he can’t get his shot off quickly enough, when he’s pressured. You become a liability on the ice, if you can’t play a 200’ game also. Right now, his value is in the gutter. He starts scoring in traffic, and produce when dmen are pressuring him, his value will sky rocket. He’s been in the 4th line for a reason. Can’t trust him.

 

[JetsFan815]

Tocchett saying the reason why he's not in the lineup is because "he has to forecheck first" has to be one of the most value destroying comments a coach can make. One can trade for a player even if they don't have the counting stats if they are forechecking hard and driving offense. The coach saying that basically tells the league that unless this guy is scoring he is not much help out there. That is tough for other teams to swallow.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Tocchett saying the reason why he's not in the lineup is because "he has to forecheck first" has to be one of the most value destroying comments a coach can make. One can trade for a player even if they don't have the counting stats if they are forechecking hard and driving offense. The coach saying that basically tells the league that unless this guy is scoring he is not much help out there. That is tough for other teams to swallow.

entirely plausible he goes back to Russia after this season. I could see like a rebuilding team throwing a dart at him though. Could probably get a guy who did score 39 last year for like a third, that’s worth checking in on

 

[Hodge]

I just can’t imagine why any team would want this guy unless it was literally for free. And even then, how many contenders are capable of absorbing that much cap right now?

Massive L not to trade him last deadline when he was on pace for 40 goals and making peanuts.

 

[tictactoe]

Kuzmenko for Atkinson...

 

[BCNate]

The Canucks are 22-9, they can afford to come down hard on players who are not playing within their system. Every forward on the Canucks is solid defensively and works hard on the the fore/back check, aside from Kuz. He will get there with time, which is what the Coaches are giving him in practice, and will be back in the top 6 by the end of the year. Canucks aren't dealing him for peanuts, they will continue to work with him or trade him for a better fit.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Pettersson made Kuzmenko look like a superstar last year. Now that Kuzmenko is no longer on Petterssons wing, he hasn't looked good.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Amazing how some people never learn. These are the same fans that wanted to trade Boeser.

Kuzmenko shouldn't go anywhere. Tochett is just trying to get more out of him, because they know he has another level. He still has 17 points in 29 games.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Pettersson made Kuzmenko look like a superstar last year. Now that Kuzmenko is no longer on Petterssons wing, he hasn't looked good.

How do you say you never watched the player without saying you didn't want the player ?

This is wrong. He started the season with him. (But also, chemistry with another player isn't the knock you think it is.)

His shooting percentage was 27.3%. You didn’t need to watch a single shift to know this guy was never under any circumstances going to come close to that goal scoring rate ever again. Especially since we’re talking about a 27 year old in his first NHL season and not prime Mike Bossy.

People didn't. Hence his contract. You are acting acting like he's making 10 mil a season.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

YES - in Allvin we trust.

If I'm Vancouver I'd look for a power scoring winger or center in return. Could really use some speed and abrasiveness to push through in the playoffs.

Alvin didn't do anything. His tweet is pure speculation. And you're hoping to get back.. ... scoring depth, in return for trading... ...our scoring depth?

We also don't need "speed and abrasiveness". Look at the roster ffs. We need skill.

 

[PettersonHughes]

We also don't need "speed and abrasiveness". Look at the roster ffs. We need skill.

4 players ranked in the top 20 statistically in points (Miller at 3rd, Quinn and Petey tied at 6th, Boeser at 13th), including a puck-moving stalwart on the back end to run things still isn't enough skill?

Also my emphasis was on acquiring more abrasiveness, since we have enough skilled speed to sneak into defensive openings with Garland, Hoglander and Mikheyev but none of them are strong enough on the forecheck to generate turnovers against big defenses consistently. Case in point, I was at the game against VGK where they ran a tight system and their big defenders kept things to the outside, while Hill shut off any dump and chase attempts by cleanly and quickly getting the puck to his D-men. Now if Pietrangelo/ Theodore and co. had to deal with a power forward barreling in on them who can dislodge the puck, they won't be able to make such clean passes in their system that so effectively shut down our offense. The West will probably have to go through Vegas and they have multiple big wings who can create havoc (they screen and tipped down low pretty often, en route to pouring on 44 shots on Demko compared to the 22 we had, and they had more hits than we had shots) so we're going to need to fight fire with fire, since I also don't believe that we've bulked up enough on the forward lines to contend (we're good on the blue line).

 

[jackjohnson]

4 players ranked in the top 20 statistically in points (Miller at 3rd, Quinn and Petey tied at 6th, Boeser at 13th), including a puck-moving stalwart on the back end to run things still isn't enough skill?

Also my emphasis was on acquiring more abrasiveness, since we have enough skilled speed to sneak into defensive openings with Garland, Hoglander and Mikheyev but none of them are strong enough on the forecheck to generate turnovers against big defenses consistently. Case in point, I was at the game against VGK where they ran a tight system and their big defenders kept things to the outside, while Hill shut off any dump and chase attempts by cleanly and quickly getting the puck to his D-men. Now if Pietrangelo/ Theodore and co. had to deal with a power forward barreling in on them who can dislodge the puck, they won't be able to make such clean passes in their system that so effectively shut down our offense. The West will probably have to go through Vegas and they have multiple big wings who can create havoc (they screen and tipped down low pretty often, en route to pouring on 44 shots on Demko compared to the 22 we had, and they had more hits than we had shots) so we're going to need to fight fire with fire, since I also don't believe that we've bulked up enough on the forward lines to contend (we're good on the blue line).

We have Joshua as a player who does that on 3rd line. Not sure why you want us to get another power forward unless it's for the top 2 lines. But we have plenty of players that forecheck hard with speed in Hoglander, Lafferty, Garland, Joshua, Blueger, PDG etc. we also have Podkolzin in AHL which is grooming to become another power forward with his big body. So I don't think we are trading for more 3rd liners at this point when Canucks have the best bottom 6 in the league.

Joshua-Blueger-Garland
PDG-Aman-Hoglander

There is no weakness in that bottom 6 at all. Plus we have Lafferty and Suter on the top 2 lines and they can play on the bottom 6 too. If anything Kuzmenko either gets back to the top 2 line eventually or he will be traded for a top 6 winger with goal scoring ability. Canucks already have plenty of tweeners and middle 6 forward to even sustain major injuries especially with Bains, Karlsson, Podkolzin in the A

 

[PettersonHughes]

We have Joshua as a player who does that on 3rd line. Not sure why you want us to get another power forward unless it's for the top 2 lines. But we have plenty of players that forecheck hard with speed in Hoglander, Lafferty, Garland, Joshua, Blueger, PDG etc. we also have Podkolzin in AHL which is grooming to become another power forward with his big body. So I don't think we are trading for more 3rd liners at this point when Canucks have the best bottom 6 in the league.

Joshua-Blueger-Garland
PDG-Aman-Hoglander

There is no weakness in that bottom 6 at all. Plus we have Lafferty and Suter on the top 2 lines and they can play on the bottom 6 too. If anything Kuzmenko either gets back to the top 2 line eventually or he will be traded for a top 6 winger with goal scoring ability. Canucks already have plenty of tweeners and middle 6 forward to even sustain major injuries especially with Bains, Karlsson, Podkolzin in the A

That's exactly the kind of player that would be a game breaker. Every team can have a depth spark plug who can catch fire from time to time, and I do agree that we've added lots of depth, but Lafferty in the top-6 for a full season as the next closest to "power forward" behind Miller (who's already tasked to do with everything) doesn't tell me that we're pretty tough to play against if we're gunning for a title. Hoglander and Garland are small, and I'm not sure that I'd trust any of Lafferty/ Joshua/ Blueger/ PDG/ Suter to sustain their scoring for an entire playoff run. In tight checking series, being like Vegas who had (when he was healthy) a guy like Nick Roy or Alex Tuch before he got traded, who can beat you off the rush with a tough-to-defend mix of speed, size and shot would definitely open things up for the teammates trailing the play. Podkolzin would be great if he meets that 55-60 point potential, but until we have that I think it's smart to add a weapon like that in our arsenal before checking gets tight and whistles get put away in the postseason.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

If Washington is the team a trade involving Kuzmenko and Tom Wilson makes so much sense. Vancouver has been adding size and grit with Zadorov, Cole, Soucy, Bluegar, Lafferty, Friedman etc etc.

Wilson would help provide a safe working environment and would be great on Petey’s wing. The playoffs would speak for themselves as adding Zadorov and Wilson mid season would be incredible for team toughness.

 

[Petes2424]

Tocchett saying the reason why he's not in the lineup is because "he has to forecheck first" has to be one of the most value destroying comments a coach can make. One can trade for a player even if they don't have the counting stats if they are forechecking hard and driving offense. The coach saying that basically tells the league that unless this guy is scoring he is not much help out there. That is tough for other teams to swallow.

Yep. His own coach is telling everyone, if he’s not scoring, he’s actually hurting the team, and they’re better without him.

It really is basic, classic stuff with him. Teams have all seen him now. There’s an actual scouting report that says, pressure him and he’ll fold. He needs open space to score, and as of now, he hasn’t shown he can beat NHL dmen 1 on 1, to create that extra space he needs.

All NHL dmen cheat, and give you space outside. If you prove you can score with that space, they adjust and stop cheating against you. They’ll actually pressure you. They take that space away.

It’s one of the major differences between the NHL and every other league. Dmen can play 1 on 1 against very skilled forwards. KHL dmen can’t. So they “give” that outside space. It’s that simple.

It’s why many of these wingers can score consistently in the KHL but not in the NHL. Many of them have that initial success here too. Maybe not as much as Kuzmenko, but same basics apply. After NHL dmen adjust, and pressure them, they can’t score anymore. It’s why so many of them bust in the NHL, and go back to Russia.

It’s up to him to now respond and so far it’s glaring that he hasn’t been able to.

We see this more with “Natural” Russian and Czech wingers than anyone else. Very skilled players too. They just can’t create space under pressure, and if you can’t do that in the NHL, you won’t be around very long. Especially if you’re not a 200’ player. It’s a very different game in North America than in Russia.

It really is that simple.

 

[Fatass]

Depends on definition of value? Imo a player’s true value is reflected in draft capital without retention. Imo Kuzmenko has no value. I can’t see any club offering a pick and taking all his cap.

 

[Cogburn]

The offers and takes continue to get worse, somehow.

 

[Mrfenn92]

If Washington is the team a trade involving Kuzmenko and Tom Wilson makes so much sense. Vancouver has been adding size and grit with Zadorov, Cole, Soucy, Bluegar, Lafferty, Friedman etc etc.

Wilson would help provide a safe working environment and would be great on Petey’s wing. The playoffs would speak for themselves as adding Zadorov and Wilson mid season would be incredible for team toughness.

Washington isn’t trading Wilson for Andrei

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Trading Kuz would be stupid. The EP line really misses him.

Kuz is a strong dude, he's key to holding the cycle and around the net playmaking.