Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[ps241]

I find it very unlikely NJ even considers moving Marino. A RHD that is the defensive heart of the team. In his prime and signed long term on a nice contract. A contender doesn’t move players like that. They will be offering up prospects with pedigree that haven’t proven themselves like Holtz. As good as Helly is, he is still a 30 year old goalie with an expiring contract and due for his bad UFA contract. That only gets rental offers IMO. The question for me is does Chevy eventually settle for that?

Rental is where I am landing now as well (my strong opinion loosely held ). If he sticks with his speculated ask he is most likely going to have to go to the highest acceptable bidder to him as a UFA next July. Hopefully, he doesn’t get injured and the rental number is “acceptable” at the TD this gets that far.

 

[Guffman]

Devils get Helleybuyck and Stanley (added to level some value)

Jets get Vanecek (cap dump) Casey, 2025 1st (2024 could belong to Sharks) and N. Foote

I’d be satisfied with a deal like that. Casey and the 1st are the main components, Vanecek is the cap dump/stop gap and Foote for Stanley is a change of scenery deal that moves out a depth defenseman for a depth forward.

Pretty close to the hard fought offer I tossed to Devil fans: Rumor: - Weekes: Mutual interest between Hellebuyck and the Devils

After respectful back-and-forth dialogue with New Jersey fans where we have exchanged ideas and values, I am ready to wrap this up with Guffman’s Grand Proposal. The caveat here is that New Jersey would be interested in extending Hellebuyck.

Winnipeg Trades:

- Hellebuyck (50% retention)

New Jersey trades:

- Vanecek
- Casey
- 2024 1st round pick (top ten protected; if unavailable, turns into a 2025 unprotected 1st round pick)
- 2025 2nd round pick OR Holtz

If New Jersey and Winnipeg does make a trade this offseason, I am comfortable with measuring my proposal against the actual deal and if it is close, my HF Forum stature will increase by 75 points.

For those looking at rental opportunities, you can submit an application in early 2024.

 

[jokesondee]

Pretty close to the hard fought offer I tossed to Devil fans: Rumor: - Weekes: Mutual interest between Hellebuyck and the Devils

After respectful back-and-forth dialogue with New Jersey fans where we have exchanged ideas and values, I am ready to wrap this up with Guffman’s Grand Proposal. The caveat here is that New Jersey would be interested in extending Hellebuyck.

Winnipeg Trades:

- Hellebuyck (50% retention)

New Jersey trades:

- Vanecek
- Casey
- 2024 1st round pick (top ten protected; if unavailable, turns into a 2025 unprotected 1st round pick)
- 2025 2nd round pick OR Holtz

If New Jersey and Winnipeg does make a trade this offseason, I am comfortable with measuring my proposal against the actual deal and if it is close, my HF Forum stature will increase by 75 points.

For those looking at rental opportunities, you can submit an application in early 2024.

Color me underwhelmed. I would hope the return would be better than this, but in reality there probably isnt much of anything being offered.

 

[Flair Hay]

Pretty close to the hard fought offer I tossed to Devil fans: Rumor: - Weekes: Mutual interest between Hellebuyck and the Devils

After respectful back-and-forth dialogue with New Jersey fans where we have exchanged ideas and values, I am ready to wrap this up with Guffman’s Grand Proposal. The caveat here is that New Jersey would be interested in extending Hellebuyck.

Winnipeg Trades:

- Hellebuyck (50% retention)

New Jersey trades:

- Vanecek
- Casey
- 2024 1st round pick (top ten protected; if unavailable, turns into a 2025 unprotected 1st round pick)
- 2025 2nd round pick OR Holtz

If New Jersey and Winnipeg does make a trade this offseason, I am comfortable with measuring my proposal against the actual deal and if it is close, my HF Forum stature will increase by 75 points.

For those looking at rental opportunities, you can submit an application in early 2024.

This is similar to what I'd expect things to be

 

[Flair Hay]

I'd even add a 2nd if everyone agreed.

I think you're underselling what Tom Wilson will go for if he is traded

 

[Jetsfan79]

Regarding Schiefele and Helle I'm wondering if this their Strategy if they cannot get a good return before training camp;:

Start the season with both of them in the lineup. Make a conscious effort to play Brossoit allot more, almost a Vegas style platoon.

Playing Brossoit more will give the Jets a sneak peak of life after Helle in the process.

If at the trade deadline, the Jets are out of it, you trade both Schiefele snd Helle for max futures.

If they are playing really well and close to the division lead, you hope you can extend both. Perhaps even go for biig fish at TDL to help convince Helke and Scief to extend.

If they are a bubble team, and the the Brosoit/ Helle tandem is working relatively well, you trade Helle. You can still sell to the fans they havnt given up if Brossot shows he can carry the mantle. Then you trade for an Aiden Hill- ish Co starter and do upgrades simular to last trade deadline. ( like getting Nino)

 

[roccerfeller]

Regarding Schiefele and Hell I'm wondering if this their Strategy if they cannot get a good return before training camp;:

Start the season with both of them in the lineup. Make a conscious effort to play Brossoit allot more, almost a Vegas style platoon.

Playing Brossoit more will give the Jets a sneak peak of life after Helle in the process.

If at the trade deadline, the Jets are out of it, you trade both Schiefele snd Helle for max futures.

If they are playing really well and close to the division lead, you hope you can extend both.

If they are a bubble team, and the the Brosoit/ Helle tandem is working relatively well, you trade Helle. You can still sell to the fans they havnt given up if Brossot shows he can carry the mantle. Then you trade for an Aiden Hill- ish Co starters do upgrades simular to last trade deadline. ( like getting Nino)

In that scenario if this are good though I just don’t see them extending

They’re close to ufa and will probably take it and go. If the extension route is the main play then ideally we’d have that answer prior to the season just to prevent that - for example even if we are doing good but there is no extension then you’re kind of forced to trade them and that would be bad for any playoff hopes or run hopes especially moving Helle in that “team doing good” scenario

Losing those two for nothing would be a fireable offense (and I’m a Chevy supporter overall)

 

[Buffdog]

In that scenario if this are good though I just don’t see them extending

They’re close to ufa and will probably take it and go. If the extension route is the main play then ideally we’d have that answer prior to the season just to prevent that - for example even if we are doing good but there is no extension then you’re kind of forced to trade them and that would be bad for any playoff hopes or run hopes especially moving Helle in that “team doing good” scenario

Losing those two for nothing would be a fireable offense (and I’m a Chevy supporter overall)

I'm not sure that losing them for nothing is a fireable offense

By all accounts, he's been trying to move helle for sure and maybe schief but the potential returns must be underwhelming or else a deal (or deals) would have been done

The stark reality is that two 30+ year old players a year from UFA don't have the value that they used to, even with schief and helle's pedigrees.

If we're comfortably in a playoff spot come TDL day, you'd have to weigh the value of a playoff appearance and run vs a couple of late 1sts and b prospects, because that's probably what you're looking at as a return. Guys picked in the 25-32 range have a very good chance to amounting to nothing.

There's also the signal you're sending the locker room if you choose to do that

 

[Whileee]

I've generally thought that the Jets never should or would let Scheifele and Hellebuyck play out the 2023/24 season and then leave as UFAs.

I still think it is very unlikely (based on the Jets' past approaches with Ladd, Trouba, etc). I also think that they would be wise to try to get the best return back for both, even if it's less than many had hoped, considering the unpredictable market.

However, I don't think it would be the end of the world if the Jets look like a strong contender and decide to keep both as "own rentals". Part of the reason is that I value next season as much as any future season, and realize that Cup runs are often unexpected, especially with a hot goalie. Also, the worst case scenario is that the Jets have to go with a full youth movement in 2024/25, which will coincide with the last seasons for Ehlers, Iafallo, Schmidt and Pionk.

If the Jets are into a full rebuild in 2024/25, they will have a passel of young players ready to contribute (McGroarty, Barlow, Lucius, Lambert, Chibrikov, Zhilkin, Salomonsson, Heinola), and they will still have a ton of trade capital to aid the rebuild (Connor, Ehlers, Lowry, Iafallo, and TDL rentals like Schmidt and Pionk). In essence, if the Jets go all in this season with Scheifele and Hellebuyck, they would be deferring a full rebuild by a year, and starting when they have more prospects ready for NHL roles. Just a thought.

But there's another path, too. Keeping Scheifele and Hellebuyck doesn't mean they can't re-sign them next off-season. They'll still be in the driver's seat, and if they have a strong season I could see at least Scheifele considering an extension.

So, I'm not sure it's as cut-and-dried as I and many others have been thinking.

Still, I think the most likely future is the Jets trading both 55 and 37 between now and the TDL, if they can't extend contracts.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

We are way underselling Helle and Scheif on here.... WORST case scenario you likely get a 1st round pick and a prospect just for the chance to sign them before free agency...

The market might be tougher for Scheif because of his playoff injury track record...

I'd say Buffalo has dropped off - and Detroit is now looking like a realistic destination now that the Yzerplan is full speed ahead.

Fabbri, Kasper, Savage, Reimer, Conditional 1st 2025 for Helle, Gus

Basically trading Helle for Kasper

 

[Gabe Kupari]

I think if you are the Jets and are trying to change the culture you either sign 55 and 37 to shorter extensions or trade them b4 the season begins. You can't lose both for nothing. I'd be tempted to offer both 1 yr extensions to see where the cap is in a year or 2

 

[Flair Hay]

I've generally thought that the Jets never should or would let Scheifele and Hellebuyck play out the 2023/24 season and then leave as UFAs.

I still think it is very unlikely (based on the Jets' past approaches with Ladd, Trouba, etc). I also think that they would be wise to try to get the best return back for both, even if it's less than many had hoped, considering the unpredictable market.

However, I don't think it would be the end of the world if the Jets look like a strong contender and decide to keep both as "own rentals". Part of the reason is that I value next season as much as any future season, and realize that Cup runs are often unexpected, especially with a hot goalie. Also, the worst case scenario is that the Jets have to go with a full youth movement in 2024/25, which will coincide with the last seasons for Ehlers, Iafallo, Schmidt and Pionk.

If the Jets are into a full rebuild in 2024/25, they will have a passel of young players ready to contribute (McGroarty, Barlow, Lucius, Lambert, Chibrikov, Zhilkin, Salomonsson, Heinola), and they will still have a ton of trade capital to aid the rebuild (Connor, Ehlers, Lowry, Iafallo, and TDL rentals like Schmidt and Pionk). In essence, if the Jets go all in this season with Scheifele and Hellebuyck, they would be deferring a full rebuild by a year, and starting when they have more prospects ready for NHL roles. Just a thought.

But there's another path, too. Keeping Scheifele and Hellebuyck doesn't mean they can't re-sign them next off-season. They'll still be in the driver's seat, and if they have a strong season I could see at least Scheifele considering an extension.

So, I'm not sure it's as cut-and-dried as I and many others have been thinking.

Still, I think the most likely future is the Jets trading both 55 and 37 between now and the TDL, if they can't extend contracts.

It's not impossible. No one was expecting to be close to top 5 in the league last year.

I feel like we already got our new coach bump and the effect looks like it already peaked.

This team is no contender, let's call it what it is. I do think we can be pretty good. But if Scheifele or Helle are not extended by the deadline then they need to go.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I think if you are the Jets and are trying to change the culture you either sign 55 and 37 to shorter extensions or trade them b4 the season begins. You can't lose both for nothing. I'd be tempted to offer both 1 yr extensions to see where the cap is in a year or 2

And why would they risk many years of guaranteed income in the multi-millions by signing a 1 year extension? Career ending injuries can happen anywhere, at any time.

@nabby12 was right.

 

[roccerfeller]

I'm not sure that losing them for nothing is a fireable offense

By all accounts, he's been trying to move helle for sure and maybe schief but the potential returns must be underwhelming or else a deal (or deals) would have been done

The stark reality is that two 30+ year old players a year from UFA don't have the value that they used to, even with schief and helle's pedigrees.

If we're comfortably in a playoff spot come TDL day, you'd have to weigh the value of a playoff appearance and run vs a couple of late 1sts and b prospects, because that's probably what you're looking at as a return. Guys picked in the 25-32 range have a very good chance to amounting to nothing.

There's also the signal you're sending the locker room if you choose to do that

Well, let’s hope the fan base and media are understanding about that scenario if it were to occur. Deep run? Sure. Competitive? Sure.
Borderline? That’s where it gets tricky. What if they miss the playoffs by a hair or they make but have a first round exit

I can forsee the pitchforks

What I meant by fireable offense is that - if you let two significant franchise assets walk for nothing in the end, that’s poor management that can hamper a franchise for years - should be at the very least highly criticized, I think a GM has not done a good job in that scenario even if objectively they’re a good GM

Again responding to that specific scenario.

Things go well or we get a fair trade at some point or they extend - then that’s great. My own ideal scenario would be an extension even if it’s a short one to keep the team competitive, but there’s a lot of risk that should not exist if you know they’re going to walk

 

[DRW204]

yeah for a team like WPG, trading out of marquee pending FAs is likely the best course in most cases. a good group of other NHL teams may not care as much b/c they can go out and sign other big-name FAs, or make player trades easier. for WPG this isn't really the case, so it's paramount to get something in return for a great FA player. fireable offense though....... if they aren't going to move on from a GM who has 1 noteowrthy season in 12 years i don't think they'll can him b/c he didn't trade a player

What I meant by fireable offense is that - if you let two significant franchise assets walk for nothing in the end, that’s poor management that can hamper a franchise for years - should be at the very least highly criticized, I think a GM has not done a good job in that scenario even if objectively they’re a good GM

Again responding to that specific scenario.

Things go well or we get a fair trade at some point or they extend - then that’s great. My own ideal scenario would be an extension even if it’s a short one to keep the team competitive, but there’s a lot of risk that should not exist if you know they’re going to walk

 

[tbcwpg]

Well, let’s hope the fan base and media are understanding about that scenario if it were to occur. Deep run? Sure. Competitive? Sure.
Borderline? That’s where it gets tricky. What if they miss the playoffs by a hair or they make but have a first round exit

I can forsee the pitchforks

What I meant by fireable offense is that - if you let two significant franchise assets walk for nothing in the end, that’s poor management that can hamper a franchise for years - should be at the very least highly criticized, I think a GM has not done a good job in that scenario even if objectively they’re a good GM

Again responding to that specific scenario.

Things go well or we get a fair trade at some point or they extend - then that’s great. My own ideal scenario would be an extension even if it’s a short one to keep the team competitive, but there’s a lot of risk that should not exist if you know they’re going to walk

I can see pitchforks if they're in a playoff race and they trade them at the deadline, especially if they're on the right side of the playoff line. Lots of casual fans don't care about the draft or the prospects.

Also the message to the players is the most important. The fans and the media are Jets fans, the players want what is best for them. Selling like that in an undesirable market sends a message to the team and the league that you're not thinking short term - fine for the fans but not for players with limited career time.

 

[roccerfeller]

Fair points boys

I still feel strongly about letting them walk for nothing though. I just don’t think that is acceptable for the jets. Hopefully that scenario stays a discussion point and nothing more

 

[robertocarlos]

Own rental is not the worse thing in the world if it leads to more playoff cash.

 

[surixon]

It's not like the Flames are having much luck moving their pending UFA as well. Maybe there really isn't much of a market for them.

 

[MardyBum]

I'm guessing teams are waiting to see what happens with Lindholm, Calgary is trying to re-sign him, and he's 2 years younger.

I don't care about Chipman making money off 2-3 playoff games, so trade them.

 

[tbcwpg]

I'm guessing teams are waiting to see what happens with Lindholm, Calgary is trying to re-sign him, and he's 2 years younger.

I don't care about Chipman making money off 2-3 playoff games, so trade them.

I think next time this team misses the playoffs, they won't get back for probably 5+ years. Increasing cap and players increasingly playing themselves to UFA as soon as they can work in Winnipeg's disadvantage, IMO.

 

[JetsFan815]

Fair points boys

I still feel strongly about letting them walk for nothing though. I just don’t think that is acceptable for the jets. Hopefully that scenario stays a discussion point and nothing more

Yep I draw a hard line at letting these two walk for nothing. If the Jets can't move them right now due to the market fine, move them at the deadline for the standard 1st + prospect package at 50% retained.

People can talk about "sending a message to the players" all they want, when Columbus hung on to their "own rentals" Panarin and Bobrovski and acquired more rentals in Duchene and Dzingel, none of that helped them retain any of Panarin, Bobrovski or Duchene, nor did it help them retain Jones, PLD, Savard, Foligno or Gavrikov soon thereafter.

Unless the Jets are literally in the 1st place in the WC with top-5 underlying metrics, letting them walk for nothing would be disastrous for a franchise like the Jets. You would expect that futures returned from dealing these guys at standard deadline prices would result in eventually yielding 1 or 2 NHL players with a ton of team controlled years. If they walk for nothing that is value you will never get back and would set back any potential rebuild. Esp if you think McGroarty/Lambert/Barlow class has potential to be impact NHL players you can't waste a chance to get 1-3 guys who might be able to play with them during their cost/team controlled years for the sake a fool's errand of a play-off run for a team that's not going anywhere.

 

[JetsFan815]

I think next time this team misses the playoffs, they won't get back for probably 5+ years. Increasing cap and players increasingly playing themselves to UFA as soon as they can work in Winnipeg's disadvantage, IMO.

Revenue sharing makes the increasing cap point moot. Cap is only increasing because league-wide revenue is increasing, and when that happens if the Jets are indeed a have-not franchise, they will receive a nice supplement of revenue share.

Also 2 games worth of playoff revenue is not franchise altering money. 55 and 37 are most likely walking anyways next summer, that is not in the Jets control. So if the Jets are bound to miss the playoffs for 5+ years as you claim, that is going to happen regardless. Given so trying to get back guys who can help you make the playoffs in a few years in the return on a 55/37 trade is worth way more than the ~4-5 million in revenue they will make for 2-3 playoff games (and that is revenue not profit). The Jets will save way more cash next season in 55/37/80 salaries than that "lost" 1st round revenue.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I think next time this team misses the playoffs, they won't get back for probably 5+ years. Increasing cap and players increasingly playing themselves to UFA as soon as they can work in Winnipeg's disadvantage, IMO.

Well, let's hope it's this year then. Might as well get that tank timer started asap so promising prospects like Rutger, Colby, Lucius and BBB don't lose hope early on. We want them to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[ps241]

I can see pitchforks if they're in a playoff race and they trade them at the deadline, especially if they're on the right side of the playoff line. Lots of casual fans don't care about the draft or the prospects.

Also the message to the players is the most important. The fans and the media are Jets fans, the players want what is best for them. Selling like that in an undesirable market sends a message to the team and the league that you're not thinking short term - fine for the fans but not for players with limited career time.

It’s about finding a balance though. This is an ongoing enterprise. As long as the return is fair you need to make the trade. If you walk Scheif and Helly out the door for nothing except another playoff appearance you send a message to your season ticket holders, the casual fan, your team, and the league that your organization is likely delusional or at least incompetent at asset management.