Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Capo given his minutes was better than heinola. Not sure how exactly that's unclear?

Weird how you single that out when ppl want to move Schmidt and Pionk and put heinola in. What makes heinola better

Heinola and/or Capo are about $4.75m better than Schmidt playing third line minutes...

And no - you can't get a realistic corsi or assessment of Capo with 14 games at 3rd line mins - its not a conspiracy just how fancy stats work

Just the fact that Kova's minutes far far exceeded Capo makes him better last season - maybe this season will be different who knows...

 

[DRW204]

Heinola and/or Capo are about $4.75m better than Schmidt playing third line minutes...

And no - you can't get a realistic corsi or assessment of Capo with 14 games at 3rd line mins - its not a conspiracy just how fancy stats work

Just the fact that Kova's minutes far far exceeded Capo makes him better last season - maybe this season will be different who knows...

I'm not talking about Kova at all. I'm talking about heinola vs Capo. Re read the post maybe?

And just bc their cheaper doesn't mean their better. If the Jets were hurting for cap space sure move on from a high priced dman. But they're not.

So again, what makes heinola better than any of the current regular dmen?

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

I don't think Mittelstadt is a C. He's not on my list at all.

TML don't have ANY cap space. Even after they LTIR Muzzin they are 3.2 over the cap with 22 on the roster and Samsonov to sign. If they wanted to do anything about their goaltending they should have bought out Murray. They should have bought him out anyway.

I'd like Nemec from NJD but I think that is a non-starter. I think we could get Marino and Nemec slides into his spot with NJ.

Mittelstadt is their 3C and he's solid if not spectacular - would probably slot in as our 2C

I think he would be available given that Krebs could easily push into his slot

TO deal would need a third party to take Murray likely for a pick since he has a NTC and Jets are always on that - only scenario I see is that TO trades Nylander for prospect and pick to make room for Helle

Looking at their roster - I can see Treiliving building a team for the playoffs but they will squeak in or miss like Florida

If I'm NJD, I trade Nemec WAY before Marino in his prime - given they are in their window right now... but I'll take either one!!

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Buffalo probably the most realistic - given cap space and their need for playoff revenue/respect...

Connor-Scheif-Vilardi
Ehlers-Names-Nino
Perfetti-Mittelstadt-Iafallo
Barron-Lowry-Kupari
AJF-Gus-Apples

Basically bottom three lines share time equally

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

I'm not talking about Kova at all. I'm talking about heinola vs Capo. Re read the post maybe?

And just bc their cheaper doesn't mean their better. If the Jets were hurting for cap space sure move on from a high priced dman. But they're not.

So again, what makes heinola better than any of the current regular dmen?

Ah gotcha - Heinola slots in over Capo simply for the same reason we gave Stan a ton of rope... 1st round pick and potentially higher ceiling

We know what Capo is and always will be - what if Heinola is the next Girard or Toews - the fact is that we just don't know, he's exceeding expectations in the AHL and we are walking him to UFA... do we trust our scouts or not?

I like Schmidt but paying a 3rd pairing D $6m a year is ridiculous... its not Heinola versus Schmidt - its long-term Vilardi versus two more years of Schmidt - that kind of thing

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It sounds like it is the extension that is scaring teams off so far. If he is willing to sign a team friendly extension, that would be huge for us. Something like a $8x5. That adds value to his rental price.

Any longer term for that price and his value is straight up worth more as a rental. I like to try to be open minded about these things... but to me his rental value = his extension value unless he really does us a solid

There is a big difference between his rental value now and his rental value at the TD.

I also don't think there is much chance of 5x8. It is light on both term and AAV. You might get a break on one or the other, but not both. I'm thinking that 6x9 is fair. Maybe 6x8.5 is possible. Maybe. I'd be very surprised at any term shorter than that unless the AAV went up quite a bit. 5x10 is still less in total than 6x8.5. I think that late career contracts the total money matters.

If teams with practically no goaltending at all are afraid of contracts like that for the most influential position on the ice then there is no help for them.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Really Not sure why ppl hate on Capo last year. Agree with your jets draft pick premise. Ppl overhype the crap out of prospects.

You guys can't seriously be saying that a guy picked ten spots earlier in the 3rd round is a better draft pedigree... I mean cmon.

Same equation - if Kova was still a Jet, there'd be no argument whether he was better than Capo - logic works both ways

 

[gojetsgo]

I find all this kovacevic talk funny because if you go to the habs board most of them don't even have him in the starting lineup next year...

 

[Jet]

I find all this kovacevic talk funny because if you go to the habs board most of them don't even have him in the starting lineup next year...

Thanks that's because any warm body could have done what he did. Good for him to realize his dream of being an nhl regular but I doubt he will stay in the league

 

[10Ducky10]

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Mittelstadt is their 3C and he's solid if not spectacular - would probably slot in as our 2C

I think he would be available given that Krebs could easily push into his slot

TO deal would need a third party to take Murray likely for a pick since he has a NTC and Jets are always on that - only scenario I see is that TO trades Nylander for prospect and pick to make room for Helle

Looking at their roster - I can see Treiliving building a team for the playoffs but they will squeak in or miss like Florida

If I'm NJD, I trade Nemec WAY before Marino in his prime - given they are in their window right now... but I'll take either one!!

Mitts has turned into a good player and I think you are right about being a 2C here. It is his natural position.
He was between Skinner and Tuch when Thompson went down and played really well.
I read somewhere that he is the 4th ranked for primary assists 5v5 for players over 1000 minutes. One, two and three are Mackinnon, Marner and Drai.
I'd take Mitts and a 1st and send Apples back but I don't want to trade Helle yet. I'd sooner give him a 5 x 9.5m or something like that.
I want no part of UPL.
TO has no money to pay Helle so I don't see him going there.

Perfetti-Scheif-Vilardi
KC-Mittelstadt-Nino
Iwillfollow-Names-Ehlers
Barron-Lowry-Kupari


Could switch Nino and Vilardi.

 

[surixon]

Jets got a bit trapped in a 'win now' window after the playoff run... my hunch is that TNSE was pushing Chevy to trade for vet D for Pomo/core and lost sight of the draft develop plan...

We really didn't 'develop' anyone from 2018-Pomo's departure except Poolman I guess and that was mostly desperation - Stan and Ves never seized their moments

I mean Maurice and Chevy got into a public spat about Ville.. Then Moe in his year end press conference talked about getting d help for Morrissey. A month later both Dillion and Schmidt are on the team.

Yeah you better believe there was a camp in TNSE pushing hard for vet dmen to be brought in.

 

[DRW204]

Ah gotcha - Heinola slots in over Capo simply for the same reason we gave Stan a ton of rope... 1st round pick and potentially higher ceiling

We know what Capo is and always will be - what if Heinola is the next Girard or Toews - the fact is that we just don't know, he's exceeding expectations in the AHL and we are walking him to UFA... do we trust our scouts or not?

I like Schmidt but paying a 3rd pairing D $6m a year is ridiculous... its not Heinola versus Schmidt - its long-term Vilardi versus two more years of Schmidt - that kind of thing

Heinola may slot in over Capo this upcoming year. However last season in similar gp and mins heinola was inferior to him.

And Capo wasn't one of the regulars in the line up.

Yes the cap savings is legit but it doesn't seem like jets beleive that'll be a problem otherwise I think he'd be moved.

He may be cheap but he's not better than any of regulars that the jets ice. Zero arguments again on how heinola is better.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Mittelstadt is their 3C and he's solid if not spectacular - would probably slot in as our 2C

I think he would be available given that Krebs could easily push into his slot

TO deal would need a third party to take Murray likely for a pick since he has a NTC and Jets are always on that - only scenario I see is that TO trades Nylander for prospect and pick to make room for Helle

Looking at their roster - I can see Treiliving building a team for the playoffs but they will squeak in or miss like Florida

If I'm NJD, I trade Nemec WAY before Marino in his prime - given they are in their window right now... but I'll take either one!!

I don't follow Buffalo closely enough to know. I am assuming that he moved to a wing and that's why he started scoring. If he scored 12 G, 59 pts on the 3rd line he must be just about the highest scoring 3C in the league. AFAIK, he was failing at C since they drafted him. Happy to be wrong and take him in trade if so.

TO would need the 3rd party to take Murray just to meet the cap as is. That is without signing Samsonov. Maybe they send Sam to us in the trade? Then trading Nylander would make room for Helle. It means they are giving up Nylander, Samsonov, Knies and Liljegren to get Helle. That's a Helle of a lot. Of course Nylander and Samsonov may be gone regardless.

You're right that Marino looks more like a now player but Nemec is 7 years younger and on his ELC for 3 years. He is also a higher tiered player than Marino and might already be equal to him. By giving us Marino they save 4.4 in cap. But if they would rather give us Nemec, I'd be more than happy to take the substitution.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Just a thought here - Does it look like Chevy may have been planning on not having Scheifele and Helle with the FA signings he made?

Without considering any potential returns, he signed 2 backup goalies. At least one of those is an upgrade at the backup position who could start in a pinch.

He added Namestnikov who filled in at C a bit last year and could play 2C if necessary. Obviously not a long term solution but a placeholder if Perfetti is not up to it and we don't get a top 6 C in trade.

Just bringing this up because otherwise I am getting the feeling that there are not going to be any more big trades. But this might hint that there will be.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Buffalo probably the most realistic - given cap space and their need for playoff revenue/respect...

Connor-Scheif-Vilardi
Ehlers-Names-Nino
Perfetti-Mittelstadt-Iafallo
Barron-Lowry-Kupari
AJF-Gus-Apples

Basically bottom three lines share time equally

If all we get back for Helle is Mittelstadt he better play ahead of Names.

Connor - Scheif - Nino
Perfetti - Vilardi - Ehlers
Names - Mittelstadt - Iafallo
Barron - Lowry - Kupari
AJF - Gus - Apples

Those have got to be just about the best 4th and 5th lines in the league. But I doubt we carry 15 F.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Heinola may slot in over Capo this upcoming year. However last season in similar gp and mins heinola was inferior to him.

And Capo wasn't one of the regulars in the line up.

Yes the cap savings is legit but it doesn't seem like jets beleive that'll be a problem otherwise I think he'd be moved.

He may be cheap but he's not better than any of regulars that the jets ice. Zero arguments again on how heinola is better.

If you're not going to accept that his ceiling is potentially higher than Capo's then I mean there's nothing I can say... Jets should have just waited until the 3rd round to draft Ville I guess

Heinola needs NHL minutes so we can see what we have before giving up on him - he looked good in 2021 - nice gap, feisty - and not so good last year - like he was trying to do too much

Capo is going to be 26 and is what he is... his one 'full season' with the Coyotes has terrible stats - worse than Kovy's - Heinola is 22...

I like Capo as a 7th D - he plays a decent game - and Schmidt too but the cost is way too high... at the end of the day Kovy was better for the Jets because he was a 6'5 RHD and we have a major need there - and just didn't see if he had chemistry with anyone... and Heinola is a puck moving 22 year old - who maybe has massive trade value if you play him a full season

I mean we can't have a WORSE third pairing than Schmidt-Stan - they just don't mesh at all yet we went back to them again and again

 

[surixon]

Just a thought here - Does it look like Chevy may have been planning on not having Scheifele and Helle with the FA signings he made?

Without considering any potential returns, he signed 2 backup goalies. At least one of those is an upgrade at the backup position who could start in a pinch.

He added Namestnikov who filled in at C a bit last year and could play 2C if necessary. Obviously not a long term solution but a placeholder if Perfetti is not up to it and we don't get a top 6 C in trade.

Just bringing this up because otherwise I am getting the feeling that there are not going to be any more big trades. But this might hint that there will be.

To me it looks like he was signing insurance for the 2C and depth. Unless they have both Vilardi and Cole penciled in at center I wouldn't say the moves signal Mark is on the move.

Same with the goalies and Helle. Brossoit cleay is a backup and the other guy looks to be the Moose starter that ca come up in a pinch given Brossoit's injuries.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

To me it looks like he was signing insurance for the 2C and depth. Unless they have both Vilardi and Cole penciled in at center I wouldn't say the moves signal Mark is on the move.

Same with the goalies and Helle. Brossoit cleay is a backup and the other guy looks to be the Moose starter that ca come up in a pinch given Brossoit's injuries.

Yeah, could be that simple. But could also be insurance for the trades not returning the right players at the right positions. Could be good value returns but still leave one or both holes open, at least for a while. Chevy could then go shopping with the assets he would have.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

If all we get back for Helle is Mittelstadt he better play ahead of Names.

Connor - Scheif - Nino
Perfetti - Vilardi - Ehlers
Names - Mittelstadt - Iafallo
Barron - Lowry - Kupari
AJF - Gus - Apples

Those have got to be just about the best 4th and 5th lines in the league. But I doubt we carry 15 F.

You've never seen a depth chart?

Again, Vilardi has performed better at W than C... but Im not against that lineup down the middle

And Mittelstadt would be the only roster player (aside from Comrie to backup Bross) - Buffalo has not RD that I want

 

[Gil Fisher]

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Mitts has turned into a good player and I think you are right about being a 2C here. It is his natural position.
He was between Skinner and Tuch when Thompson went down and played really well.
I read somewhere that he is the 4th ranked for primary assists 5v5 for players over 1000 minutes. One, two and three are Mackinnon, Marner and Drai.
I'd take Mitts and a 1st and send Apples back but I don't want to trade Helle yet. I'd sooner give him a 5 x 9.5m or something like that.
I want no part of UPL.
TO has no money to pay Helle so I don't see him going there.

Perfetti-Scheif-Vilardi
KC-Mittelstadt-Nino
Iwillfollow-Names-Ehlers
Barron-Lowry-Kupari


Could switch Nino and Vilardi.

better to give your best 5v5 scorer 1st line minutes over 3rd line minutes, imo

If all we get back for Helle is Mittelstadt he better play ahead of Names.

Connor - Scheif - Nino
Perfetti - Vilardi - Ehlers
Names - Mittelstadt - Iafallo
Barron - Lowry - Kupari
AJF - Gus - Apples

Those have got to be just about the best 4th and 5th lines in the league. But I doubt we carry 15 F.

but where are you putting Tatar?

 

[surixon]

If the Jets are actually in on Tatar that is a stronger indication that Mark is gone and they plan on using both Cole and Vilardi at center.

Going after numerous vet middle 6 wingers would be good for insulation

Conner Vilardi Iafallo
Nino Perfetti Ehlers
Tatar Lowry Namestnikov
Barron Kupri Appelton

 

[DRW204]

If you're not going to accept that his ceiling is potentially higher than Capo's then I mean there's nothing I can say... Jets should have just waited until the 3rd round to draft Ville I guess

Heinola needs NHL minutes so we can see what we have before giving up on him - he looked good in 2021 - nice gap, feisty - and not so good last year - like he was trying to do too much

Capo is going to be 26 and is what he is... his one 'full season' with the Coyotes has terrible stats - worse than Kovy's - Heinola is 22...

I like Capo as a 7th D - he plays a decent game - and Schmidt too but the cost is way too high... at the end of the day Kovy was better for the Jets because he was a 6'5 RHD and we have a major need there - and just didn't see if he had chemistry with anyone... and Heinola is a puck moving 22 year old - who maybe has massive trade value if you play him a full season

I mean we can't have a WORSE third pairing than Schmidt-Stan - they just don't mesh at all yet we went back to them again and again

Lol classic hf strawman and deflection

- never mentioned anything about ceiling
- I said heinola may slot in over Capo this season.
- Capo was better than heinola last season.
- I don't see which of nhl regular 6 dmen heinola is better than. And the nhl coach staff seem to agree
- our third pair last year for the majority of the year was Samberg-Schmidt which was a fantastic pair. Id play them in a 2nd pair role this season given their effectiveness. Schmidt played well with either samberg or Dillon.

Don't bother responding if you're going to bring up Kova again bc he didn't play on this team last season. my OP - which you've done a fantastic job veering away from - was about heinola slotting in as a regular Dmen on the roster, you know the players that were legitimately on the Jets and playing majority of the games. Not ones on Montreal.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You've never seen a depth chart?

Again, Vilardi has performed better at W than C... but Im not against that lineup down the middle

And Mittelstadt would be the only roster player (aside from Comrie to backup Bross) - Buffalo has not RD that I want

A Buffalo depth chart? No. And since when are internet depth charts reliable?
If you have actual knowledge that Mittelstadt played regularly at C last year I will happily be corrected.

Things I know. Mittelstadt struggled at C in the NHL. He was sent down to the AHL after struggling there in his second year. He played the next 2 seasons in Buffalo playing less than full time. Maybe injured, maybe scratched. His production was not terrible, not great. His production took off last season.

Things I assumed. That his increased production came at wing. Pretty common story. Highly regarded player drafted at C flourishes when moved to a wing. Also assumed that Thompson and Cozens are their top 6 Cs. 3 Cs don't usually score 59 pts so that supports the wing assumption.

Those are just assumptions. I am interested in him if he is a C. And I will take your word for him being a C if that is something you have actual knowledge of from any reliable source. Have you watched Buffalo games?

I have been assuming we would take Olofsson to enable Sabres to sign Helle but that isn't necessary since his cap this year is still only 6.167. Mittelstadt would be enough cap relief. I don't think Mitt alone is enough though. What should the add be?

better to give your best 5v5 scorer 1st line minutes over 3rd line minutes, imo


but where are you putting Tatar?

What is this Tatar talk? Who said we were in on him? Why would we be?

 

[surixon]

A Buffalo depth chart? No. And since when are internet depth charts reliable?
If you have actual knowledge that Mittelstadt played regularly at C last year I will happily be corrected.

Things I know. Mittelstadt struggled at C in the NHL. He was sent down to the AHL after struggling there in his second year. He played the next 2 seasons in Buffalo playing less than full time. Maybe injured, maybe scratched. His production was not terrible, not great. His production took off last season.

Things I assumed. That his increased production came at wing. Pretty common story. Highly regarded player drafted at C flourishes when moved to a wing. Also assumed that Thompson and Cozens are their top 6 Cs. 3 Cs don't usually score 59 pts so that supports the wing assumption.

Those are just assumptions. I am interested in him if he is a C. And I will take your word for him being a C if that is something you have actual knowledge of from any reliable source. Have you watched Buffalo games?

I have been assuming we would take Olofsson to enable Sabres to sign Helle but that isn't necessary since his cap this year is still only 6.167. Mittelstadt would be enough cap relief. I don't think Mitt alone is enough though. What should the add be?



What is this Tatar talk? Who said we were in on him? Why would we be?

He was their 3C last year. Played very little with Buffalo's top 2 centers in Cozens and Thomson.

 

[ps241]

He was their 3C last year. Played very little with Buffalo's top 2 centers in Cozens and Thomson.

Looks like 16 of his 59 points came off the PP so I assume he saw a healthy does of PP1. I don’t know much about Casey but he seemed to break out a bit last season as a 24 year old. He is a pending RFA after next season with arb rights.