Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[Gabe Kupari]

If I'm the Jets I'm putting pionk Schmidt Dillon Stanley all on the trade block and see what snags I get.

 

[Daximus]

The issue is those balanced type dmen with size are very rare. You almost have to draft in the top 3 when one happens to be available.

The rest have question marks and that is were development plays a big role.

We shall see how things go with Chisholm and Heinola next year.



Schmidt is fine on a bottom pairing but Pionk's defense has been poor for a few years now. Not what I'd call two-way.

Not all two-way dmen are good dmen. Pionk tries to play a similar game to Morrissey, he's just not as good at it. He tries to bring the physicality too but he's also not overly good at it.

If I'm the Jets I'm putting pionk Schmidt Dillon Stanley all on the trade block and see what snags I get.

Dillon is the only one worth anything and he's probably the only one out of the 3 worth keeping.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

I think pionk gets more in a trade than Schmidt tho cuz teams like o first D Like pissonk

 

[DRW204]

Good analysis, agree.

The Jets have developed precisely one full-time D since JMo, and while I'm a fan of Samberg, he's also the most obviously baseline in his skillset. Stanley was given huge opportunity and did little with it, Heinola and Chisholm haven't had much opportunity and have yet to run with it.

The Jets seem to have a fixed idea of what they want in a D -- but have rarely drafted the D they seem to want. If you want Joel Edmundson, draft Joel Edmundson -- or draft Johnny Kovacevic and don't screw it up by waiving him over dime-a-dozen wire fodder like Kyle Capobianco.

If you're drafting Chisholms, Heinolas, Salmos etc., then find a way to optimize their development and integration, or you're throwing away those picks.

It's kinda like the top 6 / bottom six thing. The Jets seem to want to play a game that a) they don't have the personnel for and b) doesn't really exist anymore in the 2023 NHL.

Look at your pegs, then find the proper roster holes for them to best perform.



Sure, but they let other teams realize his value after patiently developing him and giving him opportunities that helped build that value.

over the years i've questioned how good the Jets are draft/developing/opportunity-giving? of Dmen. imo - i really don't care about the poolman or stanley level dmen. every team can get or find those replacement (or lower) level players. The only top-4s i can say they've drafted/developed are Trouba and Morrissey. Samberg is possible but hasn't done it consistently yet imo to label him top-4. they are a supposed "draft-and-develop" team and it's not like they ever been a great defensive team or a crazy star-studded cast. decided to take a bit of a look at the overall gp across NHL since 2011.

from 2011-2019 - 278 drafted Dmen have 1+ NHL gp, for a total of 52160 gp, or a current-average of 188 per player (101 players from those drafts have currently surpassed that mark), or 1738 per team
note - No VGK or SEA, & combined PHX+ARI.

WPG has
1731 nhl gp
of those:
1327 Jets gp (404 for other teams)

trouba & morrissey are the only ones above the average in gp combining for 68% of it across the 10 players.

average-draft pick # of dmen to play more than 1 nhl gp: 75th
gp weighted average-draft pick # of dmen to play more than 1 nhl gp: 35th
gp weighted average-draft pick # of dmen to play more than 1 Jets gp: 33rd

 

[Jet]

Is he though?

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[TD]Season [/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]GP [/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]Pts[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]+/-[/TD]
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[TD]

Kovacevic​

[/TD]

[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Canadiens[/TD]

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77​

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[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

12​

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[TD]15 [/TD]
[TD]39[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD]

Capobianco​

[/TD]

[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]Winnipeg Jets[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]

[TD]

1​

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[/TABLE]

Yes.

 

[DRW204]

Yeah theres just something about Heinola that makes me doubt he'll ever be an NHL'er. He just has that look/frame. Too slight/timid/scared. Hope im wrong. Hes a very polarizing player.

i will be surprised if he gets more than a handful of games this year. who can he realistically play over?

the consider kyle copacabana out-played him last year. heinola has looked solid in spurts, but hes unplayable the other times and evidently instills 0 confidence in the staff. i liked him as a prospect but another prospect-overhype. he's shown nothing yet in the NHL and has gotten opportunity with an array of different partners.

some of it i think could've been managed better - ie: the stops and starts, or PB duty, or sitting for long-periods on end. however, not everything is going to be handed to you in optimal circumstances. & he hasn't done enough to relish in the opportunity he has gotten.

Honestly Samberg Heinola 2nd pair since Ville can play the right would probably work. You got the o guy in Heinola paired with the big defense first guy

that would be a real good 2nd pair in the AHL

 

[Mud Turtle]

So for those of you who watched the Moose last year, who would you say was the best defenseman?

 

[TheJadePipe]

Morrissey Samberg and that's it

Trouba?

 

[MardyBum]

So for those of you who watched the Moose last year, who would you say was the best defenseman?

Heinola, then Chisholm, then everyone else, at least in my opinion. Pretty sure the fancy stats agree too. They both are clearly head and shoulders above the rest though.

Something has to happen this offseason or the Jets are losing a dman or two

 

[RabidOne]

Ville has done what has been asked of him at the AHL level with what appears to be a good attitude. He seems to have taken ownership of things he can control and wants to change. I really think our team should move on from “either” a vet or Stan since he has been a good soldier and wants a fresh start. Put Ville in the 7 spot and give him a shot this season or trade him. I haven’t given up on Ville nor do I think he’s a sure thing but I think they need to fish our cut bait now. He is no longer waiver exempt, nor is Chisholm if I recall correctly so TNSE have to get their shit together on this. I assume they have some sort of a plan.

I agree with everything except the bolded. Sometimes it seems like they dont.

 

[Jet]

They are they just aren't good two-way guys. We hold everyone to the Morrissey standard.

Edit: Sorry I should say that only Pionk is a two-way type. Schmidt is offence all the way.



Over a similar sample of 77 games he might hit close to those numbers. Those are like 6/7 numbers. Both guys are pretty meh if you ask me and are a dime a dozen defencemen.

The differentiator for me is Capos agility and movement. I was really impressed with his offensive blueline work and ability to get down the walls.

 

[Atoyot]

They are they just aren't good two-way guys. We hold everyone to the Morrissey standard.

Edit: Sorry I should say that only Pionk is a two-way type. Schmidt is offence all the way.



Over a similar sample of 77 games he might hit close to those numbers. Those are like 6/7 numbers. Both guys are pretty meh if you ask me and are a dime a dozen defencemen.

I'd argue that Schmidt is much better than Pionk defensively.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

i will be surprised if he gets more than a handful of games this year. who can he realistically play over?

the consider kyle copacabana out-played him last year. heinola has looked solid in spurts, but hes unplayable the other times and evidently instills 0 confidence in the staff. i liked him as a prospect but another prospect-overhype. he's shown nothing yet in the NHL and has gotten opportunity with an array of different partners.

some of it i think could've been managed better - ie: the stops and starts, or PB duty, or sitting for long-periods on end. however, not everything is going to be handed to you in optimal circumstances. & he hasn't done enough to relish in the opportunity he has gotten.

Really not clear on how Capo outplayed anyone with 14 games at 12 mins TOI - that's not enough sample size for any fancy stats analysis

Yes.

This is laughable. Kova playing 20-25 mins against top teams - basically thrown to the wolves... but yeah Capo getting sheltered third line minutes is better.

Jets screwed up plain and simple.

 

[10Ducky10]

Really not clear on how Capo outplayed anyone with 14 games at 12 mins TOI - that's not enough sample size for any fancy stats analysis


This is laughable. Kova playing 20-25 mins against top teams - basically thrown to the wolves... but yeah Capo getting sheltered third line minutes is better.

Jets screwed up plain and simple.

Kovs played 17:34 per game.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Kovs played 17:34 per game.

As the season progressed he got more and more 20+ minute games

 

[10Ducky10]

As the season progressed he got more and more 20+ minute games

Look at the D corps the Habs had suiting up the last part of the season.

 

[Weezeric]

Really not clear on how Capo outplayed anyone with 14 games at 12 mins TOI - that's not enough sample size for any fancy stats analysis


This is laughable. Kova playing 20-25 mins against top teams - basically thrown to the wolves... but yeah Capo getting sheltered third line minutes is better.

Jets screwed up plain and simple.

Kovacevic averaged 17:25 per game. Sixth among Habs D.

Huge exaggerations don’t help you make your point..

 

[Maukkis]

Ville has done what has been asked of him at the AHL level with what appears to be a good attitude. He seems to have taken ownership of things he can control and wants to change. I really think our team should move on from “either” a vet or Stan since he has been a good soldier and wants a fresh start. Put Ville in the 7 spot and give him a shot this season or trade him. I haven’t given up on Ville nor do I think he’s a sure thing but I think they need to fish our cut bait now. He is no longer waiver exempt, nor is Chisholm if I recall correctly so TNSE have to get their shit together on this. I assume they have some sort of a plan.

Heinola remains waiver exempt for another season still. In an otherwise disastrous situation, that is pretty much the only positive.

There's a way through this catastrophe, and I've outlined it here before. Trade Dillon before the season starts (trade value: some), get rid of Stanley by any means necessary (trade value: nothing), and play the first half of the season with Chisholm as a regular 3LHD come what may. If Chis works out, great. If he doesn't, I'm sure that waiver problem will sort itself out, and Heinola probably doesn't mind taking his spot for the rest of the year. This way, we get to extract value from all four LHDs, and we get a better sense of what needs to be done before 2024-25, when larger changes to the D corps are more likely.

The way to f*** this up is as follows: no moves are made during the summer. Chisholm might be a fine prospect, but against 5 "proven" LHDs, he ultimately cannot crack the roster and gets waived and lost. This also means that Heinola is stuck in the AHL, where we waste his final year of waiver exemption before repeating this same fiasco with him next year. Depending on how the season unfolds, we stand to either trade Dillon at the deadline or lose him for nothing as a UFA in the offseason. Stanley is inconsequential in both scenarios, although he would likely see some ice time in this one. I know which scenario I prefer.

"but Maukkis, how can you give Chisholm a regular spot when he hasn't shown anything yet in the NHL?!?!?" Because Chevy and co. didn't give that chance to Chisholm earlier when he didn't need waivers, he gets an extended chance now. We had an easy way, but opted for the hard one instead.

"but Maukkis, Heinola is bad and we know he can't.." He has averaged ~10 games a season and played 15 minutes a night on average. We don't know shit about what he is in the show, and it's time we either find out or let someone else do it.

 

[Daximus]

Heinola remains waiver exempt for another season still. In an otherwise disastrous situation, that is pretty much the only positive.

There's a way through this catastrophe, and I've outlined it here before. Trade Dillon before the season starts (trade value: some), get rid of Stanley by any means necessary (trade value: nothing), and play the first half of the season with Chisholm as a regular 3LHD come what may. If Chis works out, great. If he doesn't, I'm sure that waiver problem will sort itself out, and Heinola probably doesn't mind taking his spot for the rest of the year. This way, we get to extract value from all four LHDs, and we get a better sense of what needs to be done before 2024-25, when larger changes to the D corps are more likely.

"but Maukkis, how can you give Chisholm a regular spot when he hasn't shown anything yet in the NHL?!?!?" Because Chevy and co. didn't give that chance to Chisholm earlier when he didn't need waivers, he gets an extended chance now. We had an easy way, but opted for the hard one instead.

"but Maukkis, Heinola is bad and we know he can't.." He has averaged ~10 games a season and played 15 minutes a night on average. We don't know shit about what he is in the show, and it's time we either find out or let someone else do it.

We all know what's really going to happen is we will lose one of Chishom/Stanley to waivers and Heinola will get a long look and if he can't make it he will be sent down and Chisholm will only get a shot if someone gets injured.

 

[Maukkis]

We all know what's really going to happen is we will lose one of Chishom/Stanley to waivers and Heinola will get a long look and if he can't make it he will be sent down and Chisholm will only get a shot if someone gets injured.

Losing Stanley isn't a problem, we know he isn't good enough to warrant much attention (and since he has had his long looks with trash results, we actually know this).

Losing guys who you have developed but refused to give an actual chance to prove themselves is a problem, and people should be fired over it.

 

[ps241]

Heinola remains waiver exempt for another season still. In an otherwise disastrous situation, that is pretty much the only positive.

There's a way through this catastrophe, and I've outlined it here before. Trade Dillon before the season starts (trade value: some), get rid of Stanley by any means necessary (trade value: nothing), and play the first half of the season with Chisholm as a regular 3LHD come what may. If Chis works out, great. If he doesn't, I'm sure that waiver problem will sort itself out, and Heinola probably doesn't mind taking his spot for the rest of the year. This way, we get to extract value from all four LHDs, and we get a better sense of what needs to be done before 2024-25, when larger changes to the D corps are more likely.

The way to f*** this up is as follows: no moves are made during the summer. Chisholm might be a fine prospect, but against 5 "proven" LHDs, he ultimately cannot crack the roster and gets waived and lost. This also means that Heinola is stuck in the AHL, where we waste his final year of waiver exemption before repeating this same fiasco with him next year. Depending on how the season unfolds, we stand to either trade Dillon at the deadline or lose him for nothing as a UFA in the offseason. Stanley is inconsequential in both scenarios, although he would likely see some ice time in this one. I know which scenario I prefer.

"but Maukkis, how can you give Chisholm a regular spot when he hasn't shown anything yet in the NHL?!?!?" Because Chevy and co. didn't give that chance to Chisholm earlier when he didn't need waivers, he gets an extended chance now. We had an easy way, but opted for the hard one instead.

"but Maukkis, Heinola is bad and we know he can't.." He has averaged ~10 games a season and played 15 minutes a night on average. We don't know shit about what he is in the show, and it's time we either find out or let someone else do it.

It’s in Chevy’s hands because coaches play vets. This team has been in the win now mode for a while so we’ll see if that continues. Like you mentioned a Dillon is in his last season with us (extension notwithstanding) so what’s the plan?

I think the challenge they face is Chevy won’t want to start the season without Dillon unless they feel Samberg is ready for the top 4.

 

[Gil Fisher]

I see Schmidt as a defensive defenseman at this stage of his career. I think his shot supression stats are really good. Some soft minutes likely contributing. He can still make a pass but can't get up the ice like he used to.

 

[Flair Hay]

It’s in Chevy’s hands because coaches play vets. This team has been in the win now mode for a while so we’ll see if that continues. Like you mentioned a Dillon is in his last season with us (extension notwithstanding) so what’s the plan?

I think the challenge they face is Chevy won’t want to start the season without Dillon unless they feel Samberg is ready for the top 4.

Yeah I understand people like Maukkis frustration because I share it to a degree.

But Chisholm is not a replacement for the role that Dillon or Stanley play. We need to get better, bigger and stronger on the blue line. Bringing another smaller offensive puck mover won't help our teams win games.

It's a step the player and the org needs but a step in the wrong direction for the team On the ice.

 

[surixon]

Yeah I understand people like Maukkis frustration because I share it to a degree.

But Chisholm is not a replacement for the role that Dillon or Stanley play. We need to get better, bigger and stronger on the blue line. Bringing another smaller offensive puck mover won't help our teams win games.

It's a step the player and the org needs but a step in the wrong direction for the team On the ice.

Chisholm isn't a small dmen. He's 6"1 and also plays with tenacity. He's not a one dimensional guy. He's a lot like Mathesen as a dmen and Mathesen is a good top 4 guy.

 

[Flair Hay]

Chisholm isn't a small dmen. He's 6"1 and also plays with tenacity. He's not a one dimensional guy. He's a lot like Mathesen as a dmen and Mathesen is a good top 4 guy.

I hope you're right. I definitely don't see him as being a tough defenseman to play against the NHL level. Hopefully I'm wrong.