Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[Daximus]

Yeah we also heard PLD was only going to Montreal... if a teams wants you and is willing to pay, things change

Plus Toronto is next door to Detroit except less crappy

Well we want him and are likely willing to pay so I'd prefer that route.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

I wonder if there's any chance that Tarasenko would sign in Wpg...
Connor-Scheif-Vilardi
Ehlers-Names-Tarasenko
Iafallo-Perfetti-Apples
Barron-Kupari-Lowry

That would be a nice way to ease Perfetti into a C role...

 

[Atoyot]

I wonder if there's any chance that Tarasenko would sign in Wpg...
Connor-Scheif-Vilardi
Ehlers-Names-Tarasenko
Iafallo-Perfetti-Apples
Barron-Kupari-Lowry

That would be a nice way to ease Perfetti into a C role...

Neiderreiter?

 

[Jet]

Heinola is the obvious one but Kovacevik wasn't given much of an opportunity and looks to be an NHL dmen for Montreal. You then have the offensive Flair guys like Niku, Gawanke who weren't given much of a look (Yeah I know they have holes in their games). Chisholm has been excellent for two years now in the AHL and has projectable size and skating and he's had only a small cup of coffee and looked good during it.

I think this org hasn't done as good of a job integrating dmen as they have integrating other positional players. They seem to get type cast on wanting a certain thing from most of the dmen they have graduated. That thing is size and snarl as has been seen with 4 of the 5 dmen they integrated (Trouba, Poolman, Snerg, Stanley). They have graduated one puck moving offensive minded dmen in JoMo and he had to morph his game to a defensive dmen to get his shot.

This reeks of bias.

Kovacevic is a tweener. Niku is not an nhler.
Chisholm is still in the pipeline
Gawanke remains to be seen if he succeed s elsewhere
Samberg is a great development story, as is Morrissey
Chiarot was fully cooked in the system and given plenty of time to develop and we got plenty of service out of him
Heinola is still an enigma but he was given opportunities and seemed to fall on his face nearly every time.
Stanley has probably been given too much opportunity.

Yes, looks like the org puts a premium on a certain type of defenseman, but I think it's o/d bias more than size.

Could we have done better? Probably. Are we bad at it? I dont think so. Maybe even should look at the d we're drafting instead.

Once a player is competing for a roster spot in camp, it's really up to the coaches to select their roster. Kovacevic was lost last year because Bowness didn't like him enough to keep him on the roster, preferring to keep Capobianco, instead.

Capobianco is a better defenseman

 

[surixon]

This reeks of bias.

Kovacevic is a tweener. Niku is not an nhler.
Chisholm is still in the pipeline
Gawanke remains to be seen if he succeed s elsewhere
Samberg is a great development story, as is Morrissey
Chiarot was fully cooked in the system and given plenty of time to develop and we got plenty of service out of him
Heinola is still an enigma but he was given opportunities and seemed to fall on his face nearly every time.
Stanley has probably been given too much opportunity.

Yes, looks like the org puts a premium on a certain type of defenseman, but I think it's o/d bias more than size.

Could we have done better? Probably. Are we bad at it? I dont think so. Maybe even should look at the d we're drafting instead.


Capobianco is a better defenseman

Yes there is some o vs. D as well as it seems this org doesn't like much risk in the dmen it integrats. But there is a clear size bias as well.

Samberg struggled mighty at times early this year before finding his stride and excelling. Heinola has also struggled but wasn't given the leash to work through it like Dylan was. Hopefully that happens today.

 

[Jet]

Yes there is some o vs. D as well as it seems this org doesn't like much risk in the dmen it integrats. But there is a clear size bias as well.

Samberg struggled mighty at times early this year before finding his stride and excelling. Heinola has also struggled but wasn't given the leash to work through it like Dylan was. Hopefully that happens today.

I don't think Samberg was ever as bad as Heinola has been defensively. He looked like he was playing scared out there most the time

 

[jokesondee]

I don't think Samberg was ever as bad as Heinola has been defensively. He looked like he was playing scared out there most the time

Yeah theres just something about Heinola that makes me doubt he'll ever be an NHL'er. He just has that look/frame. Too slight/timid/scared. Hope im wrong. Hes a very polarizing player.

 

[Jet]

Yeah theres just something about Heinola that makes me doubt he'll ever be an NHL'er. He just has that look/frame. Too slight/timid/scared. Hope im wrong. Hes a very polarizing player.

The worst thing for me is I feel like if he just said 'f*** it' and went out and played how he could be could really blossom into something great.

Id be feeding him hours of videos starring Vatanen, Enstrom, Morrissey, and other slighter stars. He has it in him

 

[surixon]

I don't think Samberg was ever as bad as Heinola has been defensively. He looked like he was playing scared out there most the time

Sure, but defense is Snerg's entire calling card. Moving the the puck and jumping up and creating offense is Heinola's. You can't play scared in that type of role as you get burned going halfway.

I think Ville needs the confidence of his coach to play his game and learn from his mistakes. I think you see a good player if allowed acclimatize. But he also has to force the issue in camp.

 

[Daximus]

Sure, but defense is Snerg's entire calling card. Moving the the puck and jumping up and creating offense is Heinola's. You can't play scared in that type of role as you get burned going halfway.

I think Ville needs the confidence of his coach to play his game and learn from his mistakes. I think you see a good player if allowed acclimatize. But he also has to force the issue in camp.

Yeah the org needs to give him that opportunity in camp and he needs to run with it. The trouble is those types of Dmen make their hay by playing with the offensive lines and PP minutes. If they aren't given that opportunity and are instead expected to play with mostly the bottom 6 and not see any PP ice they aren't really being utilized like they should.

Not everyone is a Morrissey that can come in and play any role you ask of them.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Neiderreiter?

I knew I was forgetting someone haha
Iafallo-Perfetti-Nino
Barron-Lowry-Kupari

Sorry Apples...

 

[surixon]

Yeah the org needs to give him that opportunity in camp and he needs to run with it. The trouble is those types of Dmen make their hay by playing with the offensive lines and PP minutes. If they aren't given that opportunity and are instead expected to play with mostly the bottom 6 and not see any PP ice they aren't really being utilized like they should.

Not everyone is a Morrissey that can come in and play any role you ask of them.

Exactly, the Morrissey's of the world are rare. A coach needs to recognize the best uses for players and play them to their strengths.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

I don't think Samberg was ever as bad as Heinola has been defensively. He looked like he was playing scared out there most the time

Heinola's gap control was actually really nice when he got his first looks in the NHL... its just this last shot that he looks 'off'

Regardless, neither Heinola or Samberg ever looked as bad defensively as Stan

 

[Daximus]

I knew I was forgetting someone haha
Iafallo-Perfetti-Nino
Barron-Lowry-Kupari

Sorry Apples...

So much still depends on what is happening with Scheif that I don't think we can really gauge where anyone will be until that is resolved.

Are we trading him? What is the return? Are we keeping him? If so will he sign long term? If not are we moving him at the deadline?

Exactly, the Morrissey's of the world are rare. A coach needs to recognize the best uses for players and play them to their strengths.

Yeah and our org seems to have a pretty deadset idea as to what they want out of their dmen. They want two-way guys all the way down that can both PP/PK. They seem to be pretty averse to pure offensive types and are comfortable with pure defensive types if need be.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Honestly Samberg Heinola 2nd pair since Ville can play the right would probably work. You got the o guy in Heinola paired with the big defense first guy

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

So much still depends on what is happening with Scheif that I don't think we can really gauge where anyone will be until that is resolved.

Are we trading him? What is the return? Are we keeping him? If so will he sign long term? If not are we moving him at the deadline?

That lineup was based on Perfetti and/or Vilardi developing as C thru the year to keep the option open to trade Scheif... give Vilardi a share of draws like we did with Scheif/PLD

its probably not going to happen but I'd love to see Perfetti as 3C and give him time to emerge - play them as the checking line with scoring touch... 4th line as a big bruising shutdown line

Post deadline
Connor-Vilardi-Ehlers
Barron-Perfetti-Nino
Iafallo-Lowry-Apples
Gus-Names-Kupari

Hopefully you have a roster player return for Scheif or Lambert has forced his way in at 4C... I'd want size with Perfetti so he doesn't get run and I'd look at alternating draws with Barron

Honestly Samberg Heinola 2nd pair since Ville can play the right would probably work. You got the o guy in Heinola paired with the big defense first guy

We SHOULD be playing this but it means sitting someone making $6m a year...

 

[surixon]

So much still depends on what is happening with Scheif that I don't think we can really gauge where anyone will be until that is resolved.

Are we trading him? What is the return? Are we keeping him? If so will he sign long term? If not are we moving him at the deadline?



Yeah and our org seems to have a pretty deadset idea as to what they want out of their dmen. They want two-way guys all the way down that can both PP/PK. They seem to be pretty averse to pure offensive types and are comfortable with pure defensive types if need be.

Well they miss read players then as Pionk and Schmidt aren't really two way guys.

 

[robertocarlos]

Maybe this process is making him realize that the grass isn't always greener elsewhere.

The grass is greener in Ireland.

 

[BoneDocUK]

So much still depends on what is happening with Scheif that I don't think we can really gauge where anyone will be until that is resolved.

Are we trading him? What is the return? Are we keeping him? If so will he sign long term? If not are we moving him at the deadline?



Yeah and our org seems to have a pretty deadset idea as to what they want out of their dmen. They want two-way guys all the way down that can both PP/PK. They seem to be pretty averse to pure offensive types and are comfortable with pure defensive types if need be.

Agree -- and yet we have a pricy smaller PMD / PP QB in Schmidt who has seen relatively little use on the PP, his supposed strength, and another pricy smaller PMD in Pionk who's had some pretty shocking numbers defensively while still getting a ton of minutes, 5v5 and special teams. We have a pair of enigmas in Stan, who's had plenty of sheltered minutes and done little with them -- and who is apparently as likely to be extended as traded -- and Ville, who has had limited minutes and not done enough.

I don't really see a strategy here beyond a hierarchy still based significantly on seniority and salary and a growing LHD logjam that Chevy seems content to let "sort itself out."

Again, if toy want 2-way guys all the way down with size, snarl and special-teams abilities, then draft those guys, and don't bother with oversized or undersized offensive D you don't trust. Just find more Sambergs, Jmo-lites with a RHS bias, and call it a day.

 

[ps241]

Ville has done what has been asked of him at the AHL level with what appears to be a good attitude. He seems to have taken ownership of things he can control and wants to change. I really think our team should move on from “either” a vet or Stan since he has been a good soldier and wants a fresh start. Put Ville in the 7 spot and give him a shot this season or trade him. I haven’t given up on Ville nor do I think he’s a sure thing but I think they need to fish our cut bait now. He is no longer waiver exempt, nor is Chisholm if I recall correctly so TNSE have to get their shit together on this. I assume they have some sort of a plan.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Capobianco is a better defenseman (than Kovacevic)

Is he though?

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[TABLE=collapse]
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[TD]Season [/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]GP [/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]Pts [/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]+/-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Kovacevic​

[/TD]

[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Canadiens[/TD]

[TD]

77​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

12​

[/TD]

[TD]15 [/TD]
[TD]39[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Capobianco​

[/TD]

[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]Winnipeg Jets[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[RabidOne]

This doesn't explain waiving 6'5 RHD Kova

Grass (player) is always greener?

 

[Daximus]

Well they miss read players then as Pionk and Schmidt aren't really two way guys.

They are they just aren't good two-way guys. We hold everyone to the Morrissey standard.

Edit: Sorry I should say that only Pionk is a two-way type. Schmidt is offence all the way.

Is he though?

​

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[TD]Season[/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]Pts[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]+/-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Kovacevic​

[/TD]

[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Canadiens[/TD]

[TD]

77​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

12​

[/TD]

[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]39[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Capobianco​

[/TD]

[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]Winnipeg Jets[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Over a similar sample of 77 games he might hit close to those numbers. Those are like 6/7 numbers. Both guys are pretty meh if you ask me and are a dime a dozen defencemen.

 

[surixon]

Agree -- and yet we have a pricy smaller PMD / PP QB in Schmidt who has seen relatively little use on the PP, his supposed strength, and another pricy smaller PMD in Pionk who's had some pretty shocking numbers defensively while still getting a ton of minutes, 5v5 and special teams. We have a pair of enigmas in Stan, who's had plenty of sheltered minutes and done little with them -- and who is apparently as likely to be extended as traded -- and Ville, who has had limited minutes and not done enough.

I don't really see a strategy here beyond a hierarchy still based significantly on seniority and salary and a growing LHD logjam that Chevy seems content to let "sort itself out."

Again, if toy want 2-way guys all the way down with size, snarl and special-teams abilities, then draft those guys, and don't bother with oversized or undersized offensive D you don't trust. Just find more Sambergs, Jmo-lites with a RHS bias, and call it a day.

The issue is those balanced type dmen with size are very rare. You almost have to draft in the top 3 when one happens to be available.

The rest have question marks and that is were development plays a big role.

We shall see how things go with Chisholm and Heinola next year.

They are they just aren't good two-way guys. We hold everyone to the Morrissey standard.



Over a similar sample of 77 games he might hit close to those numbers. Those are like 6/7 numbers. Both guys are pretty meh if you ask me and are a dime a dozen defencemen.

Schmidt is fine on a bottom pairing but Pionk's defense has been poor for a few years now. Not what I'd call two-way.

 

[Daximus]

The issue is those balanced type dmen with size are very rare. You almost have to draft in the top 3 when one happens to be available.

The rest have question marks and that is were development plays a big role.

We shall see how things go with Chisholm and Heinola next year.

They need to move someone by training camp or they are gonna lose someone. Honestly I am not opposed to them just letting Stan pass through waivers. Not sure if they do it though.