Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[surixon]

I completely agree with this. I think that if we stop and actually listen to the players, it seems that a lot of the noise around a toxic culture has been amplified from unsubstantiated rumors.

New players like Niederreiter and Namestnikov have openly talked about how much they like the team and the organization.

Older player like Morrissey, Lowry, etc. have emphasized about how the team gets along, and that the negative press is overblown. The piece by Murat about Morrissey's struggles when his Dad was ill, and how Wheeler supported him, are illustrative of what goes on behind the scenes. Evidently, Morrissey and Scheifele get along well on a personal level, based on common social events, etc.

Teams that aren't winning have tensions mount, but I think much of it has been amplified by a few local reporters that dislike Wheeler and Scheifele, and clearly took sides with Laine in his complaints about being relegated to playing with Little.

Even yesterday, Billeck was on WST going on about how the Jets had been too "serious" under Wheeler, and didn't let free spirits like Laine and Ehlers flourish. Actually, I think that it's more likely that the top players expected young players to come to camp in top condition, like the vets were. That's not uncommon. There's no chance that MacKinnon or Bergeron would be happy with young players being casual about training and out of shape.

I think it's great that McGroarty and Barlow are happy-go-lucky and fan-friendly. So were Scheifele and Trouba when they were young / new players. But I also expect the Jets' leadership to retain very high expectations in terms of training and fitness as part of the team culture. I highly doubt that Perfetti, McGroarty, Barlow, Heinola, etc. will have a problem with those expectations.

Agreed. We had Wheeler and Mark raving about Cole last year. It seems he has fit in quite well already.

But I do think you need a couple different leadership styles in your room. I think there was a vacume for a bit after Buff left and lite got injured. I think JoMo and Lowry have since filled that hole.

 

[Whileee]

Heinola is the obvious one but Kovacevik wasn't given much of an opportunity and looks to be an NHL dmen for Montreal. You then have the offensive Flair guys like Niku, Gawanke who weren't given much of a look (Yeah I know they have holes in their games). Chisholm has been excellent for two years now in the AHL and has projectable size and skating and he's had only a small cup of coffee and looked good during it.

I think this org hasn't done as good of a job integrating dmen as they have integrating other positional players. They seem to get type cast on wanting a certain thing from most of the dmen they have graduated. That thing is size and snarl as has been seen with 4 of the 5 dmen they integrated (Trouba, Poolman, Snerg, Stanley). They have graduated one puck moving offensive minded dmen in JoMo and he had to morph his game to a defensive dmen to get his shot.

I think the jury is still out on the development of Heinola and Chisholm. Both are young, and I wouldn't say that their development has been delayed.

That being said, the Jets need to fix their glut on LHD to provide them with opportunities to take the next step (at least one of them).

I would put Gawanke and Niku into completely different categories than Heinola or Chisholm. They were long-shots from the start based on major deficits in their defensive play. An NHL D can have real weaknesses defensively if they are dynamic offensively (like Q Hughes, Girard, etc.), but neither Gawanke nor Niku are close to that level. My opinion from the start with Gawanke has been that he's just way too disorganized and chaotic on D to be a regular NHLer. With Niku, he never moved beyond playing a very timid game in his own zone, so he wasn't able to gain a roster spot.

 

[surixon]

I think the jury is still out on the development of Heinola and Chisholm. Both are young, and I wouldn't say that their development has been delayed.

That being said, the Jets need to fix their glut on LHD to provide them with opportunities to take the next step (at least one of them).

I would put Gawanke and Niku into completely different categories than Heinola or Chisholm. They were long-shots from the start based on major deficits in their defensive play. An NHL D can have real weaknesses defensively if they are dynamic offensively (like Q Hughes, Girard, etc.), but neither Gawanke nor Niku are close to that level. My opinion from the start with Gawanke has been that he's just way too disorganized and chaotic on D to be a regular NHLer. With Niku, he never moved beyond playing a very timid game in his own zone, so he wasn't able to gain a roster spot.

Oh I agree those two were long shots but the same could be said about the Poolman's, Chariot's of the world but each were given big time opportunities with very good players and a very long leash. The ones I have mentioned haven't been given the same opportunities. As I said the org seems fine living with certain deficiencies in dmen if they have certain attributes while largely ignoring dmen with other attributes that have certain deficiencies.

Hopefully both Chisholm and Heinola get opportunities this year.

 

[Thechozen1]

I seriously hope he signs with us. Honestly best case scenario. We aren't going to find a better goalie on the trade or UFA market.

This is true. The Jets need to damn well figure out how to get the most of him/the team though. Wasting another 5 years of Helle as the team wallows in mediocrity is a crime. I think that’s why he wants to leave. He wants to win.

Teams with less talented players can figure out a system and get the commitment from their players to at least give them a chance to go on solid runs in the post season.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

Or going back to Helle, telling him no contenders are willing to pay him what he’s worth and offering him 7x9.5M

I think he wants completely out of Canada. We know he didn't like the vaccine requirements during covid, so it might be safe to assume he didn't like the border closures either.

Pure speculation on my part though.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

I think part of the disconnect is in the scouting department and Chevy vs. what the coaches love. Mo and Bones have been known to favour the big guys over the smaller guys.

Exactly this.

The coaching staff prefers one playstyle, but we keep drafting players who don't fit into that style.

Either we need to draft to fit our coaching style, our coaching staff needs to change their approach based upon what kind of players we have, or management needs a complete overhaul of our entire coaching staff.

Dysfunction at its finest.

 

[Huffer]

Thanks Huffer, I appreciate the kind words.

In regards to the locker room: In order to succeed (and I think this goes without saying), you need to have all hands on deck. I've read far too many times how much Wheeler and Scheifele isolated themselves, and formed themselves a "boys club." With them being the supposed leaders of the club, it's a bad look.

I have no doubt that the boys get along well with each other. I think a lot should be said that guys like Ehlers, Connor, Morrissey, and Lowry all committed to this team for the long term. That's important to recognize.

The reason why Wheeler and Scheifele are constantly at the forefront of the locker room controversy, is because there are too many negative stories that surround them. Look at Laine, Hayes, Eakin, Stastny. Everyone of those stories revolve around those two players. I also don't like how Scheifele has handled himself when he needs to answer for wrongdoings, and I can't imagine that it brings a positive vibe to the team in general.

Whenever there's a disturbance, or an underlying problem that goes unaddressed, it's eventually going to rot. There will be no culture change until you remove the bad seed.

I think what I'm wondering though is, where are you hearing that they've formed a boys club? Is that legit, or just telephone tag that when traced back goes nowhere?

Same as the other items. Laine? Wheeler himself said he probably could have handled it better, but a lot of the vitriol seemed to come from a Finish hack journalist. Same as Hayes and Eakin. How do we know what they said is even true (both could have easily been upset with their minor roles and were shown the door), and how do we know their general statement is about Scheifele and Wheeler? Same as Stastny, he made a general statement (that I've heard from athletes in all sports), so I'm not sure how it only gets applied to Scheifele and Wheeler?

In general I agree with you though, I think a culture change is good because we've had a lot of the same guys for a long time, and sometimes you need to shake it up. And it would also make a lot of sense to turn the room over to a younger group as well.

I just don't know why Scheifele and Wheeler get blamed for everything based on all circumstancial evidence. Again, not saying that maybe they were not a potential problem, I'm just calling into the question that we don't have any real evidence. Just a bunch of hersay that everyone wants to point to 2 guys.

I'm not a lawyer, but every time I read posts here about Scheifele and Wheeler, no one really has much to back it up besides "I heard".

 

[Daximus]

Exactly this.

The coaching staff prefers one playstyle, but we keep drafting players who don't fit into that style.

Either we need to draft to fit our coaching style, our coaching staff needs to change their approach based upon what kind of players we have, or management needs a complete overhaul of our entire coaching staff.

Dysfunction at its finest.

Well it comes in two parts though because Chevy goes out and gets guys like Dillon to fill in and they coaches aren't going to ever move away from a player like that.

 

[Daximus]

I think what I'm wondering though is, where are you hearing that they've formed a boys club? Is that legit, or just telephone tag that when traced back goes nowhere?

Same as the other items. Laine? Wheeler himself said he probably could have handled it better, but a lot of the vitriol seemed to come from a Finish hack journalist. Same as Hayes and Eakin. How do we know what they said is even true (both could have easily been upset with their minor roles and were shown the door), and how do we know their general statement is about Scheifele and Wheeler? Same as Stastny, he made a general statement (that I've heard from athletes in all sports), so I'm not sure how it only gets applied to Scheifele and Wheeler?

In general I agree with you though, I think a culture change is good because we've had a lot of the same guys for a long time, and sometimes you need to shake it up. And it would also make a lot of sense to turn the room over to a younger group as well.

I just don't know why Scheifele and Wheeler get blamed for everything based on all circumstancial evidence. Again, not saying that maybe they were not a potential problem, I'm just calling into the question that we don't have any real evidence. Just a bunch of hersay that everyone wants to point to 2 guys.

I'm not a lawyer, but every time I read posts here about Scheifele and Wheeler, no one really has much to back it up besides "I heard".

I don't think the org strips Wheeler of the C or buys him out if there isn't some fire to that smoke.

All we do know is that there has been some turmoil in that room going back to the days of Buff and Kane, Chiarot and Wheeler fighting in practice, Wheeler/Scheif/Mo and their disagreements with Laine. We've had Perreault, Stastny, Hayes and Eakin comment on it, numerous media members have said that there has been some internal issues in the room.

During that entire time all we heard from management and players is "all is good, we all get along." Yet numerous times we hear and see the opposite of that.

WE don't really know the specifics and likely won't for some time if we do at all but there is something that is going on in that room and nobody can say for sure what it is and who is at the center of it.

 

[TCsmyth]

I think what I'm wondering though is, where are you hearing that they've formed a boys club? Is that legit, or just telephone tag that when traced back goes nowhere?

Same as the other items. Laine? Wheeler himself said he probably could have handled it better, but a lot of the vitriol seemed to come from a Finish hack journalist. Same as Hayes and Eakin. How do we know what they said is even true (both could have easily been upset with their minor roles and were shown the door), and how do we know their general statement is about Scheifele and Wheeler? Same as Stastny, he made a general statement (that I've heard from athletes in all sports), so I'm not sure how it only gets applied to Scheifele and Wheeler?

In general I agree with you though, I think a culture change is good because we've had a lot of the same guys for a long time, and sometimes you need to shake it up. And it would also make a lot of sense to turn the room over to a younger group as well.

I just don't know why Scheifele and Wheeler get blamed for everything based on all circumstancial evidence. Again, not saying that maybe they were not a potential problem, I'm just calling into the question that we don't have any real evidence. Just a bunch of hersay that everyone wants to point to 2 guys.

I'm not a lawyer, but every time I read posts here about Scheifele and Wheeler, no one really has much to back it up besides "I heard".

If one of the reporters really wants to did into it and get to the bottom of the story, I suggest that they do a deep dive on Adam Oates - what he thinks about Wheeler, Scheifele, Maurice and the Jets organization.

Major contributing factor to the mindset of the individuals and the culture that is being speculated on

 

[Huffer]

I don't think the org strips Wheeler of the C or buys him out if there isn't some fire to that smoke.

All we do know is that there has been some turmoil in that room going back to the days of Buff and Kane, Chiarot and Wheeler fighting in practice, Wheeler/Scheif/Mo and their disagreements with Laine. We've had Perreault, Stastny, Hayes and Eakin comment on it, numerous media members have said that there has been some internal issues in the room.

During that entire time all we heard from management and players is "all is good, we all get along." Yet numerous times we hear and see the opposite of that.

WE don't really know the specifics and likely won't for some time if we do at all but there is something that is going on in that room and nobody can say for sure what it is and who is at the center of it.

I agree in part that there could be some fire to some smoke. But more smoke than other teams, or just more reported on?

I can see the organization buying out Wheeler if everything was fine because he's not an 8 million dollar player and we can better use that cap space. The C is a little circumspect I agree, but Bowness also wanted to put his stamp on the room and shake up a team that had been underperforming.

I just want to throw out there that there certainly could be some issues in the room that could have been resolved better, or maybe not handled correctly. It's certainly seemed like we've underperformed a bit compared to the talent in the room, and it's not illogical to wonder about the teams leadership. I think personally that it's been taken way too far and it's being run with by people based on hearsay though.

I think you can make a case (again, based on a lot of circumstantial evidence), that Scheifele and Wheeler may not be great leaders. Wheeler may be too intense (somehow guys like Messier or Kobe Bryant don't get dumped on for being intense but I guess that's what winning does), and Scheifele may not have great leadership qualities either (but not everyone does). But it seems like the vitriol has gone way past that, and we keep hearing rumors and stories that want to paint these guys as absolutely toxic people and terrible human beings. When everything I have seen or heard 1st hand from people who have say met Wheeler in the community have nothing but wonderful things to say about him (doesn't make him a great leader, but doesn't point to him being this monster we're supposed to believe he is).


This is probably too long of a post, and maybe not relevant anymore so I apologize. But when you keep seeing posts from HF posters thousands of kilometers away (not singling you out Skip), that act like they know exactly what's happening in a professional sports locker room, it gets a little tiring. And I'm more than onboard with turning the team over, just not onboard with tarring and feathering guys who have committed 10 plus years here as multiple all-stars as horrible cancers.

As an aside, if Scheifele gets traded this summer, how much negativity do you think we will hear about Scheifele, Wheeler, and PLD? I almost guarantee everything from the new team will be sunshine and rainbows, how they "fit right in", and we'll read endless posts from other teams fans like, "see, it's just that terrible Jets team/locker room/city, once they got to our awesome team/locker room/city and our amazing leadership (echos of Kane to Buffalo and San Jose), they 100% became awesome, not like the horrible people they were in Winnipeg." (Slight exaggeration there but you get the drift lol).

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

I think part of the disconnect is in the scouting department and Chevy vs. what the coaches love. Mo and Bones have been known to favour the big guys over the smaller guys.

This doesn't explain waiving 6'5 RHD Kova

 

[Daximus]

This doesn't explain waiving 6'5 RHD Kova

Well Chevy is in charge of the drafting and player movement. Sure the coaches get a say there most of the time but they don't make the decisions. That seemed like a two parter though. He wasn't getting starts with the Jets so maybe that was a joint decision.

 

[Whileee]

Well it comes in two parts though because Chevy goes out and gets guys like Dillon to fill in and they coaches aren't going to ever move away from a player like that.

Once a player is competing for a roster spot in camp, it's really up to the coaches to select their roster. Kovacevic was lost last year because Bowness didn't like him enough to keep him on the roster, preferring to keep Capobianco, instead.

 

[Guffman]

The best recent goalie is probably Schneider who went for a 9th overall pick but also had 2 years left and was 3 years younger than Helle.

This is the major problem with the Helle deal I think. Hes on the back 9 of his career now. So its a tougher trade than just hes a top 3 goalie. Yeah but for how much longer?

Hellebuyck is an exceptional technical goalie, not one who overtly relies on catlike reflexes. I think his strengths should endure for a good chunk of his 30s.

Now, Sorokin really established the top end market from a contract perspective (8.25M AAV and he’s younger). Hellebuyck really needs to adjust to the market and lower his expectations. He will be 31 for his next contract. If he’s pitching for more than 5 years and more than $8.5M AAV, that’s going to hurt our chances at getting good trade comp.

 

[Guffman]

Well from reading into it, seems like all of NJ, Detroit and Buffalo brass feel they will just run with what they have. And Ottawa has no interest in a goalie that won't resign in Canada.

I think the market for Helle has run dry among those teams for now. We basically are banking on all or some of them faultering early into the season and hitting the panic button.

Ottawa is definitely out since they recently signed Korpisalo to a 5-year contract. Detroit is still rebuilding. That doesn’t look like a good destination for Hellebuyck.

The teams I would be looking at are NJ, Buffalo, LA and even Edmonton.

NJ is obviously good enough to make the playoffs with their existing goaltenders. They are not in a rush to cut a deal for Hellebuyck yet.

Buffalo is obviously high on Levi but he only has 7 games under his belt. What will Buffalo’s current goaltending deliver? Sure, try to give Levi 40 or so games but if he‘s not ready, will Buffalo continue to flush away seasons when the rest of the team is ready to compete?

LA looks like it will go backwards if they are going to trot out those duds as goalies.

For the Oilers, they have to be win now for the next two years while Draisaitl is under his existing contract. Hoping Skinner flounders!

I think you’re right though… many of these situations (except LA) seems to be dependent on how things go in-season.

 

[None]

Once a player is competing for a roster spot in camp, it's really up to the coaches to select their roster. Kovacevic was lost last year because Bowness didn't like him enough to keep him on the roster, preferring to keep Capobianco, instead.

Here's a clip of Arniel saying that Barron was penciled in next to Lowry in July. This was before any of our coaches had actually seen him play more than a couple games against their previous teams.
I don't think coaches view training camp as open competition for spots. Players only get opportunity when the incumbent gets injured as we saw with Samberg getting his when Stanley got hurt.

 

[Daximus]

Hellebuyck is an exceptional technical goalie, not one who overtly relies on catlike reflexes. I think his strengths should endure for a good chunk of his 30s.

Now, Sorokin really established the top end market from a contract perspective (8.25M AAV and he’s younger). Hellebuyck really needs to adjust to the market and lower his expectations. He will be 31 for his next contract. If he’s pitching for more than 5 years and more than $8.5M AAV, that’s going to hurt our chances at getting good trade comp.

Yeah I think Helle will be pretty likely to stay strong well into his mid 30's but it doesn't matter what I think. It matters what the other GM's think.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Well Chevy is in charge of the drafting and player movement. Sure the coaches get a say there most of the time but they don't make the decisions. That seemed like a two parter though. He wasn't getting starts with the Jets so maybe that was a joint decision.

It just seemed really strange - like Kova wasn't going to light it up but we gave Poolman tons of rope and then Stanley... and then replaced him with almost exactly the same player just smaller and a LHD - while we were and still are desperate for RHD

Like the whole league is looking for RHD

 

[Daximus]

Ottawa is definitely out since they recently signed Korpisalo to a 5-year contract. Detroit is still rebuilding. That doesn’t look like a good destination for Hellebuyck.

The teams I would be looking at are NJ, Buffalo, LA and even Edmonton.

NJ is obviously good enough to make the playoffs with their existing goaltenders. They are not in a rush to cut a deal for Hellebuyck yet.

Buffalo is obviously high on Levi but he only has 7 games under his belt. What will Buffalo’s current goaltending deliver? Sure, try to give Levi 40 or so games but if he‘s not ready, will Buffalo continue to flush away seasons when the rest of the team is ready to compete?

LA looks like it will go backwards if they are going to trot out those duds as goalies.

For the Oilers, they have to be win now for the next two years while Draisaitl is under his existing contract. Hoping Skinner flounders!

I think you’re right though… many of these situations (except LA) seems to be dependent on how things go in-season.

I think Buffalo and NJ stand and if either or both trip on the starting line they may circle back to Helle.

LA would likely love to add Helle but they are already over the cap so it's unlikely they could make a deal for him.

Detroit seems like it's rebuilding but then Yzerman went out and spend like $20m on UFA's so not sure where they land, perhaps looking to move them all at the deadline for assets? Who knows?

Oilers are another team that would love Helle but they don't really have any interesting assets we would want that they would be willing to part with. Holloway maybe.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Ottawa is definitely out since they recently signed Korpisalo to a 5-year contract. Detroit is still rebuilding. That doesn’t look like a good destination for Hellebuyck.

The teams I would be looking at are NJ, Buffalo, LA and even Edmonton.

NJ is obviously good enough to make the playoffs with their existing goaltenders. They are not in a rush to cut a deal for Hellebuyck yet.

Buffalo is obviously high on Levi but he only has 7 games under his belt. What will Buffalo’s current goaltending deliver? Sure, try to give Levi 40 or so games but if he‘s not ready, will Buffalo continue to flush away seasons when the rest of the team is ready to compete?

LA looks like it will go backwards if they are going to trot out those duds as goalies.

For the Oilers, they have to be win now for the next two years while Draisaitl is under his existing contract. Hoping Skinner flounders!

I think you’re right though… many of these situations (except LA) seems to be dependent on how things go in-season.

Im still calling Treiliving as the dark horse for Helle...

Helle (50% retained), Stanley for Knies, Liljegren

 

[Daximus]

It just seemed really strange - like Kova wasn't going to light it up but we gave Poolman tons of rope and then Stanley... and then replaced him with almost exactly the same player just smaller and a LHD - while we were and still are desperate for RHD

Like the whole league is looking for RHD

Yeah it was a puzzling move. All to keep Capobianco..

You're guess is as good as mine.

Im still calling Treiliving as the dark horse for Helle...

Helle (50% retained), Stanley for Knies, Liljegren

I think TO fans would riot if they traded Knies and Lily for 1 year of Helle.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Detroit seems like it's rebuilding but then Yzerman went out and spend like $20m on UFA's so not sure where they land, perhaps looking to move them all at the deadline for assets? Who knows?

Interesting strategy if that's the case - but really seems like strange play... maybe the pitch was - hey you'll get more playing time here and then go to a contender for the playoffs haha

Yeah it was a puzzling move. All to keep Capobianco..

You're guess is as good as mine.



I think TO fans would riot if they traded Knies and Lily for 1 year of Helle.

It wouldn't be one year - Murray and Nylander would be off the books for a sign and trade

 

[Daximus]

Interesting strategy if that's the case - but really seems like strange play... maybe the pitch was - hey you'll get more playing time here and then go to a contender for the playoffs haha


It wouldn't be one year - Murray and Nylander would be off the books for a sign and trade

That only works if Helle is willing to re-up in Canada, all we have heard is he doesn't want to.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

That only works if Helle is willing to re-up in Canada, all we have heard is he doesn't want to.

Yeah we also heard PLD was only going to Montreal... if a teams wants you and is willing to pay, things change

Plus Toronto is next door to Detroit except less crappy