Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[JetsFan815]

I was looking over some of the charts again myself.

Two years ago, Monahan was above average defensively and his offense and finishing were shit.

Last year, his defense was average, his offense was average and his finishing was horrible.

This year, his offense is above average, his finishing is average and his defense looks really bad.

It's so all over the place, it honestly looks like we have a guy who will be a product of his environment. At least he will have some good wingers and a good structured team around him

I have gone over his numbers a lot as well, the main sign of optimism I see is the Josh Anderson factor. His numbers away from Anderson aren't awfully bad considering the team, still not great defensively but overall looks a bit more respectable whereas Andersons' numbers are awful with or away from Sean.

The problem is that it is frustrating that we are even having to do these gymnastics trying to find positives after we spent a 1st round pick in a trade, with that level of asset the reason to give up that much should be obvious like it was with Stastny and even Hayes for that matter.

 

[Whileee]

I will be first to say this...I gave up on Chevy and the jets last year. They were just so meh to watch and Chevy stood idly by and did nothing during the after xmas free fall.

But my goodness how he handled the off season and getting rid of the two dressing room issues in Wheeler and Dubois is unreal.

Now adding a good experienced guy like Monahan without losing a prospect or a current roster player is amazing.

LOOK at what Vancouver gave up for Lindholm, stats wise a pretty similar player.

Chevy has changed the room and proven his worth, and its not even near the deadline yet. More moves to bolster the roster for a deep playoff run will come.

I'd note that Chevy's two TDL trades last year were fantastic, even though many fans clamored for more.

Niederreiter and Namestnikov for a 2nd and 4th was a very good TDL.

 

[puck stoppa]

I'd note that Chevy's two TDL trades last year were fantastic, even though many fans clamored for more.

Niederreiter and Namestnikov for a 2nd and 4th was a very good TDL.

They were good deals as rentals alone. Then you extend them and they are good pieces on a top team for a few more years, that makes it even better.

 

[Buffdog]

I have gone over his numbers a lot as well, the main sign of optimism I see is the Josh Anderson factor. His numbers away from Anderson aren't awfully bad considering the team, still not great defensively but overall looks a bit more respectable whereas Andersons' numbers are awful with or away from Sean.

The problem is that it is frustrating that we are even having to do these gymnastics trying to find positives after we spent a 1st round pick in a trade, with that level of asset the reason to give up that much should be obvious like it was with Stastny and even Hayes for that matter.

How much chart studying was done on Hayes and Stastny?

As I've posted, the season of the trade:

Hayes: 0.83PPG
Monahan: 0.71PPG
Stastny: 0.63PPG

Stastny was a great fit, Hayes not so much. Goes to show anything can happen. Like you mentionned, let's give Monahan a fair shake with decent linemates and a chance to pick up the system and worry if at that point, he sucks for us

I really hate to "appeal to authority", but I promise you that Jets management and scouts have seen every bar graph posted in here PLUS have watched more of Monahans play than any of us have. They saw something that they thought was worth paying the price for, so let's see how it shakes out

 

[10Ducky10]

Was Hayes a bad fit?
Did Maurice play him on the 2nd line much?

 

[JetsFan815]

How much chart studying was done on Hayes and Stastny?

As I've posted, the season of the trade:

Hayes: 0.83PPG
Monahan: 0.71PPG
Stastny: 0.63PPG

Stastny was a great fit, Hayes not so much. Goes to show anything can happen. Like you mentionned, let's give Monahan a fair shake with decent linemates and a chance to pick up the system and worry if at that point, he sucks for us

I really hate to "appeal to authority", but I promise you that Jets management and scouts have seen every bar graph posted in here PLUS have watched more of Monahans play than any of us have. They saw something that they thought was worth paying the price for, so let's see how it shakes out

The point is that the Jets aren't infallible, they have made bad pro-scouting decisions in the past.

And no extensive chart studying was needed for Hayes and Stastny because their impact was obvious (both significantly above average offensively and defensively at evens with no injury history that would scare you).

Ofcourse his play on ice will determine if it was worth it but it was a big trade, it's Saturday, there's no Jets games till Tuesday, we gotta discuss the biggest trade they are likely to make this season.

 

[buggs]

Was Hayes a bad fit?
Did Maurice play him on the 2nd line much?

Not really sure if he was a bad fit or if Maurice just didn't like him. It was weird. Really weird. Hayes never really even got that much of a shot to work out the kinks in the top six. Mau just didn't trust him or something and it ended up being a complete waste of a pick. Whether there was a good reason for that or not we'll likely never know.

As I recall, he spent most of his time playing 4C.

 

[Atoyot]

Was Hayes a bad fit?
Did Maurice play him on the 2nd line much?

When he played in the top 6 he had some of the best metrics and overall production on the team. Then he was put on the 4th line.

Hayes also talked a lot of shit about Winnipeg after he left. I wonder if his demotion had more to do with attitude than actual production.

 

[Maukkis]

Dallas is a d &d team who is competitive. They don’t need to to the same degree as Dallas not wpg but lot of good young players they take late.

One thing that Dallas has mastered is spreading out the talent across the whole lineup, so that they can accommodate their super-talented young guns into fitting roles from day 1. Most teams wouldn't have their 9+ million veterans in the third line, but Dallas knows better and puts theirs there to make way for others. Look at guys like Robertson and Johnston, who received top 6 minutes already as rookies and put up points accordingly. A certain Central team should take notes.

Also, it's sickening that they still have Stankoven in the folds, and they aren't going to waste him.

 

[Flair Hay]

I have gone over his numbers a lot as well, the main sign of optimism I see is the Josh Anderson factor. His numbers away from Anderson aren't awfully bad considering the team, still not great defensively but overall looks a bit more respectable whereas Andersons' numbers are awful with or away from Sean.

The problem is that it is frustrating that we are even having to do these gymnastics trying to find positives after we spent a 1st round pick in a trade, with that level of asset the reason to give up that much should be obvious like it was with Stastny and even Hayes for that matter.

Yeah ideally he would have just lifted Anderson up like good players often do.

He definitely seems like more of a glue guy than a great player.

There may be something we are missing once we see him in action. Hopefully.

 

[Flair Hay]

i'd be a proponent of getting the 2nd & 3rd pair closer in mins.

samberg-schmidt have been the top xGA pair in the league, what more do you want on the defensive side? do you think they're going to tank defensively b/c they get an extra minute per game (that's what 1-2 more shifts?), really? how about recognize that this team has been stellar on the defensive end this year.

can def argue some more offense, for sure. C. Tanev isn't that. & id also argue the xGF or GF side is more of a Fwd influence rather than defenseman.

the team as a whole is 2.38 xGA/60, not much separates them and #1 at 2.24.

samberg-schmidt: 1.84 xGA/60 vs w/o them: 2.5 xGA/60
Dillon-Pionk 2.30 xGA/60 vs w/o them: 2.4 xGA/60.
morrisseg-demelo 2.64 xGA/60 vs w/o them: 2.26 xGA/60.

it seems like this entire D group has been playing their role at a pretty high level once you consider other contextual factors. somehow the stats equate to this team being elite defensively yet need to jumble a bunch of the pairings and personnel lol.

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These are all pretty good points.

Athletic player cards actually has Schmidt as higher market value than Tanev. Not sure that's actually true, but enough to question how big that upgrade would actually be.

Samberg and Schmidt are the best 3rd pair in the league defensively as you say which is a realpy big plus for us.

 

[bustamente]

In the end Chevy might decide that his top 6 D man are good enough with Heinola and Stanley as 7 and 8 and not bring in anyone else. For the most part this group has played very well in front of Helle.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

I'd note that Chevy's two TDL trades last year were fantastic, even though many fans clamored for more.

Niederreiter and Namestnikov for a 2nd and 4th was a very good TDL.

I agree they are good trades.

But the typical reason you are adding at the trade dead line is to make a splash in the playoffs and hopefully win a Stanley cup.

From that primary perspective it was a resounding failure given the first round exit and a total of one road win. (Of course their are a ton of reasons that caused a first round exit)

Long term the adds were fantastic. And the risk wasn’t too high given it cost a second and a fourth. And they’ve both grown into key pieces of the team and have really fit in. A year later A+. Grade at playoffs? F or D?

We definitely need to have a TDL that translates into playoff success given the shrinking window of our cores primes.

I think monahan was a nice add that will help.

 

[Jet]

I agree they are good trades.

But the typical reason you are adding at the trade dead line is to make a splash in the playoffs and hopefully win a Stanley cup.

From that primary perspective it was a resounding failure given the first round exit and a total of one road win. (Of course their are a ton of reasons that caused a first round exit)

Long term the adds were fantastic. And the risk wasn’t too high given it cost a second and a fourth. And they’ve both grown into key pieces of the team and have really fit in. A year later A+. Grade at playoffs? F or D?

We definitely need to have a TDL that translates into playoff success given the shrinking window of our cores primes.

I think monahan was a nice add that will help.

Here's the problem - most high priced 'splashes' are failures.

I think Nino and Names were the right play to try and get the team turned around, but unfortunately they couldn't do enough to move the needle.

Judging by what happened in LA, maybe PLD had more of a negative impact around the team than we knew. I really don't know how one player could have that effect but maybe he caused a fracture in the room with a couple of factions. I could see guys like Wheeler and Lowry getting pissed at his lack of give a shit and mopey attitude.

Who really knows? I will say the biggest positive TDL deals seem to be those that are more subtle and for players who just slide into a role. I see that with Monahan as he's a stylistic and personality fit with this group, and he actually addresses several needs.

I do think when all is said and done people will have an overall good opinion of this move, even if Monahan doesn't stay.

 

[DRW204]

Was Hayes a bad fit?
Did Maurice play him on the 2nd line much?

Pretty sure when Hayes came he was one the top producers for the jets given his TOI.

The difference I see with the tdl deals

17-18 our second line was struggling with Little at C when they were healthy and rolling with ELL. Compare the uptick in production before and after, and I think it's clear why they wanted/needed an upgrade.

18-19 I don't think many were excited of moving a 1st, given the downward trend of this team after December. Although Hayes was solid in his minutes, Maurice decided to knock him down the depth chart making the trade look even worse

This year--the second line has been pretty consistent with a combo of either iafallo, Perfetti or ehlers on the wing. If Monahan provides an uptick similar to stastny hard to argue its cost/benefits at all

 

[KingBogo]

I agree they are good trades.

But the typical reason you are adding at the trade dead line is to make a splash in the playoffs and hopefully win a Stanley cup.

From that primary perspective it was a resounding failure given the first round exit and a total of one road win. (Of course their are a ton of reasons that caused a first round exit)

Long term the adds were fantastic. And the risk wasn’t too high given it cost a second and a fourth. And they’ve both grown into key pieces of the team and have really fit in. A year later A+. Grade at playoffs? F or D?

We definitely need to have a TDL that translates into playoff success given the shrinking window of our cores primes.

I think monahan was a nice add that will help.

This is just your assumption, and based on the evidence is an incorrect one. Every year we see GMs be both sellers and buyers at the TD, trying to rejuggle their rosters. Move out players likely to leave after the season and buy players with term for the future. At last year's TDL, the evidence suggests Chevy had more of an eye to the future rather than to push for a cup. First off, he kept all his most valuable trade chips off the table. 1st round picks and top prospects. Suggesting he wasn't big game hunting. Also the players he picked up was a nod to the future. His top pick up, Nino had term and would be on the team the following season and filled a long term need on the roster. A big bodied winger for the middle 6, who causes havoc around the net. With Names it was widely reported he had a very close relationship with Bones and I would suggest the organization knew he was willing to re-sign if he liked the fit.

 

[DRW204]

These are all pretty good points.

Athletic player cards actually has Schmidt as higher market value than Tanev. Not sure that's actually true, but enough to question how big that upgrade would actually be.

Samberg and Schmidt are the best 3rd pair in the league defensively as you say which is a realpy big plus for us.

Those athletic cards tend to overrate 3rd pair D a bit. I like Tanev just think this team may benefit with a bit more offense from the back end, rather than another defensive specialist.

Id been a proponent of Chychrun if truly available. Probably becomes our 2nd best D, is signed for another year+young enough to build with, and versatility playing both sides. IMO the juice is worth the squeeze with him vs Tanev. And I think his skillset is more of what we're missing.

 

[Flair Hay]

Those athletic cards tend to overrate 3rd pair D a bit. I like Tanev just think this team may benefit with a bit more offense from the back end, rather than another defensive specialist.

Id been a proponent of Chychrun if truly available. Probably becomes our 2nd best D, is signed for another year+young enough to build with, and versatility playing both sides. IMO the juice is worth the squeeze with him vs Tanev. And I think his skillset is more of what we're missing.

I agree with the skill set part.

I do think there is much more juggling pairs and roles with him than there would be with Tanev. I think a lot of the wise comments you had about acquiring Tanev apply to Chychrun as much or more.

 

[DRW204]

I agree with the skill set part.

I do think there is much more juggling pairs and roles with him than there would be with Tanev. I think a lot of the wise comments you had about acquiring Tanev apply to Chychrun as much or more.

True, that's possible. However id say Chychrun would be worth it bc his upside and ceiling is much higher + a long term player for us. He also fits the usual defenseman split that Bowness seems to like, if replacing Schmidt.

This year: pair him with Samberg. And when down in games, you can elevate him to play with Pionk (or Morrissey)

Next season: Dillon may walk and Chychrun slides in perfectly at 2LD.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

This is just your assumption, and based on the evidence is an incorrect one. Every year we see GMs be both sellers and buyers at the TD, trying to rejuggle their rosters. Move out players likely to leave after the season and buy players with term for the future. At last year's TDL, the evidence suggests Chevy had more of an eye to the future rather than to push for a cup. First off, he kept all his most valuable trade chips off the table. 1st round picks and top prospects. Suggesting he wasn't big game hunting. Also the players he picked up was a nod to the future. His top pick up, Nino had term and would be on the team the following season and filled a long term need on the roster. A big bodied winger for the middle 6, who causes havoc around the net. With Names it was widely reported he had a very close relationship with Bones and I would suggest the organization knew he was willing to re-sign if he liked the fit.

Sure kingbogo. It’s a generality. Every trade feadline there a buyers and sellers. Typically buyers are buying for a playoff push.

I don’t think that’s a fringe radical opinion. Nor do I think it’s a reach of an assumption.

That being said - and maybe I didn’t explicitly state it, there are long and short term wins to every trade deadline add.

if you asked most people, again a generality, right after we were eliminated from the playoffs, if chevys adds were successful. The answer is likely gonna be no, but the cost wasn’t too high and potential for sticking aroind beyond rentals. (I think they both already had term no?)

All I’m saying is there are different definitions of success. And I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest deadline adds first and foremost are about that seasons playoff push - but you also keep term and cost of acquisition in mind. I even started with I agree they are good adds.

If we are eliminated in 4 games this year, and monahan is our only move - but a year from now he has resigned and is our 2c doing admirably . I won’t fault anyone for saying the adds was a failure. If Chevy is making moves for next year and not focused on this years success. Sad. Need a bit of both, or if you win the cup this year and none of the moves/players stick around - still a success.

 

[10Ducky10]

Canucks are all in and have confidence they can win the cup this year.

 

[KingBogo]

Sure kingbogo. It’s a generality. Every trade feadline there a buyers and sellers. Typically buyers are buying for a playoff push.

I don’t think that’s a fringe radical opinion. Nor do I think it’s a reach of an assumption.

That being said - and maybe I didn’t explicitly state it, there are long and short term wins to every trade deadline add.

if you asked most people, again a generality, right after we were eliminated from the playoffs, if chevys adds were successful. The answer is likely gonna be no, but the cost wasn’t too high and potential for sticking aroind beyond rentals. (I think they both already had term no?)

All I’m saying is there are different definitions of success. And I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest deadline adds first and foremost are about that seasons playoff push - but you also keep term and cost of acquisition in mind. I even started with I agree they are good adds.

If we are eliminated in 4 games this year, and monahan is our only move - but a year from now he has resigned and is our 2c doing admirably . I won’t fault anyone for saying the adds was a failure. If Chevy is making moves for next year and not focused on this years success. Sad. Need a bit of both, or if you win the cup this year and none of the moves/players stick around - still a success.

IMO a lot of TDL deals aren't made with an eye on chasing the cup, but rather GMs also taking advantage of value in the trade market with the shear volume of players available. No doubt there are pure buyers and pure sellers, but there are also many GMs in the middle looking for value on the market, often with a nod to the future not the present. Why wouldn't GMs try to extract value on a league imposed deadline?

 

[Whileee]

I agree they are good trades.

But the typical reason you are adding at the trade dead line is to make a splash in the playoffs and hopefully win a Stanley cup.

From that primary perspective it was a resounding failure given the first round exit and a total of one road win. (Of course their are a ton of reasons that caused a first round exit)

Long term the adds were fantastic. And the risk wasn’t too high given it cost a second and a fourth. And they’ve both grown into key pieces of the team and have really fit in. A year later A+. Grade at playoffs? F or D?

We definitely need to have a TDL that translates into playoff success given the shrinking window of our cores primes.

I think monahan was a nice add that will help.

Played champs in round one, largely without their top winger (Ehlers), D (Morrissey), and then C.

I think those were good adds, but no team can beat the top team without 3 top players.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Canucks are all in and have confidence they can win the cup this year.

I’m rooting for them. If we can’t win, would love a Canadian team.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

Canucks are all in and have confidence they can win the cup this year.

I wonder if they don't if Canucks fans have a repeat of the last time they made it to the cup finals