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All Encompassing Coaching and Glen Cigar Thread Part V

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Katie Strang @KatieStrangESPN 2m

#NYR Tortorella said "responsibility falls on me" for getting top players going and he couldn't do that.
 
Listen to the post game. Even they're saying we need a different system for this group of players. But no, I'm just being reactionary. Its obvious to anyone that knows the game. Even Pierre ripped them apart for not adjusting.

Does he need to go? Yes, unless he's changing his system. But have I seen any evidence that he is willing to and can change his system? No, and because of that, he needs to go.

I think he's done some great things, including developing our D into very good defensive players. Look at all McD, Moore, Stralman, even Girardi! But there's not a lick of offense in any of their games. McDonagh Moore and Stralman all have the offensive potential. He just doesn't know how to unleash it.

By the way, Boston's D had at least 7 or 8 goals this series. Could that be because we sit back and leave the points open? Hmmmm... No adjustment made there.
 
3rd Guy High said:
Does anyone still think we should have this idiot behind the bench? God forbid we have a PP coach because Tortorella has a circle of trust and only wants one other person on his bench.

Best goalie in the world? Lets sit back deep in our zone and screen the goalie some more. Gotta make it a fair game for the other team because they don't have someone as good as him you know.

We have a gritty 4th liner that can and has scored more goals than our superstar goal scorer Rick Nash in the playoffs? Let's scratch him and put in some perennial AHL all-star NHL scrub.

Clutch rookie comes in and scores some great goals for us in the playoffs when it matters? Let's not be patient with him until we're on the brink of elimination again.

Oh, and let's play a 40 year old slow as molasses defenseman who hasn't played a game in almost 2 months versus a 20 year old rookie with fresh legs who has played a game more recently than that.

Brassard is lighting up the playoffs in the first round? ****. He shouldn't be doing that, let's put Mr.1-goal-Nash with him so Boston can cover both of them with Chara! Genius!

Zuccarello plays well with Brassard? Demote him to play with Byron Boy and Taylor Pyatt while successfully breaking up the two lines that have been the best for us in the playoffs.

Our PP runs at a 5% rate? Let's keep the same guys out there when we have someone who brought us success sitting on the bench (Moore).

The only good thing he did this postseason was bench Richards. And that should have been done a loooooong time ago. But no, we have people in here defending him.

I don't know if Lindberg could have been brought over either, so I can't blame him for that, but I would have had a kid who was a playoff MVP a few weeks ago in my lineup immediately.
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In a nutshell, possibly the best post I ever read!
 
It would be so much fun to see guys like Nash, hags, Kreider, mza, etc just fly up and down. Scoring chance after scoring chance. Will there be scoring chances back the other way? Of course, but so what? Hockey is a beautiful that's meant to be played fast and reckless. This guy has made us the second coming of lemaire's devils. Sorry to say this as a rangers fan but those islanders vs pens games were more fun to watch.
 
MessierIsGod said:
It would be so much fun to see guys like Nash, hags, Kreider, mza, etc just fly up and down. Scoring chance after scoring chance. Will there be scoring chances back the other way? Of course, but so what? Hockey is a beautiful that's meant to be played fast and reckless. This guy has made us the second coming of lemaire's devils. Sorry to say this as a rangers fan but those islanders vs pens games were more fun to watch.
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Can't blame your frustration.
 
I don't ever remember having outright disdain for the head coach of a team I rooted for. Torts is probably the first. Maybe Trottier.
 
3rd Guy High said:
Andy MacDonald and Temmu Selanne are VERY good players. My point is, the players you listed aside from Kreider would have played in the top 6 over him. Who knows what Kreider would look like if he had a coach that was patient with him and put him with the best player in the world.
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Exactly and Kunitz has somehow always found himself on the first line of contending rosters. This is not a coincidence, he is a first line player on probably 90% of teams in this league, definitely including the Rangers.

Please, Kreider didn't get top 6 ice time because he wasn't good enough to play those. The Penguins also have a very good winger prospect in Beau Bennet, who has produced more in college and the AHL, yet he is a 4th line player on that team.

Tortorella still had #1 center production in the playoffs. So don't use that as an excuse. If he wasn't producing as a #1 center, then I could agree with your statement. But for now, both Brassard and Stepan fit the bill.
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Small sample size is small.

Using two games of Hamrlik-Eminger as a "depth" excuse is ********. What's the excuse for the 3 games before Stralman got hurt?
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Ryan Callahan getting top line minutes.
Mats Zuccarello getting top 6 minutes.
Carl Hagelin getting top line minutes.
Anton Stralman being relied upon as a top 4 NHL dman.
Steve Eminger suiting up in NHL playoff game
No capable PMD on backend.
Disgusting bottom 6 (Boyle and Pyatt played well though)
 
nyr2k2 said:
I don't ever remember having outright disdain for the head coach of a team I rooted for. Torts is probably the first. Maybe Trottier.
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Really? Give me Torts over most of our coaches in the last decade and a half or so. In fact, he's caused the least grief out of any of them to me.
 
Pizza said:
Love ya Son, but your wrong. Normally you make more sense than any fifty posters in this nut house and you make some good points....but you are wrong here.

If Tort's did anything this year he convinced me more than ever that he's the guy. He and the team over came a tremendous amount of adversity. Boston was just too big, tough and talented. We need to put teams out there that have a much better balance of skill and toughness. Then and only then will we get to the finals.
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You make some good points and you could be right. I don't think the players have a major issue with Torts. I think he got the most HE COULD out of this group. The thing is I think another coach could've gotten more. I think a new coach will get more out of the players. Saying the Rangers power play was a disaster isn't hyperbole, it's not the usual hf exaggeration that this board lives for. It's the truth and that falls on the coach. We can't pin that on Sullivan. The power play is on Torts, he's the coach, he makes the decisions and his decisions didn't help the team. The Rangers had the pieces to have a creative power play and it didn't work. That's my #1 reason for wanting Tortorella gone and it's not something that can be excused. Firing Sullivan isn't enough. You know what gets lost in the power play argument....the penalty killing was really bad in the playoffs. With better special teams the Rangers have a chance to beat Boston. (not saying they would've, Bruins deserve all the credit in the world, i hope they beat the penguins)

Is it a risk to make a coaching change? Of course it is. Maybe the next guy is a disaster and we have to make another change. I could see that because well....it's the Rangers and things like that seem to happen to this team.


I appreciate Tortorella but I'd still let him go. I know this was a short season but I'd still let him go. I know that Sather should get fired too and that won't happen and people will say how can 1 go without the other....I hear that argument and counter it with it's time to end the Torts era....
 
The fan in me would like to see what a new coach can bring to this team, but the realist in me would be shocked to see AV or Boucher take this team any further than Torts has.
 
Jonathan. said:
Really? Give me Torts over most of our coaches in the last decade and a half or so. In fact, he's caused the least grief out of any of them to me.
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I don't mean it in terms of ability. I think he's done an okay job. Obviously Muckler, Low and Trottier were all awful coaches. I just dislike Torts on a personal level. Well, as personal of a level as you can have with a guy you don't actually know in person, LOL.

I always thought he was a jerk, and I hate his face. Whenever the time comes that I no longer have to look at him, I'll be so relieved.

I don't think he has done a terrible job. Nor do I think he's done a great job. His tenure has been pretty "meh" to me. Up and down. Our window won't be open forever, and I'd like to see what someone else can do.
 
aufheben said:
The fan in me would like to see what a new coach can bring to this team, but the realist in me would be shocked to see AV or Boucher take this team any further than Torts has.
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i said it once, and i'll say it again...PIERRE MCGUIRE. he has a ring for a reason. i hate his personality, but he could win this team a cup. not like our coach isn't hated by 90% of the league already
 
Kershaw said:
Exactly and Kunitz has somehow always found himself on the first line of contending rosters. This is not a coincidence, he is a first line player on probably 90% of teams in this league, definitely including the Rangers.

Please, Kreider didn't get top 6 ice time because he wasn't good enough to play those. The Penguins also have a very good winger prospect in Beau Bennet, who has produced more in college and the AHL, yet he is a 4th line player on that team.



Small sample size is small.



Ryan Callahan getting top line minutes.
Mats Zuccarello getting top 6 minutes.
Carl Hagelin getting top line minutes.
Anton Stralman being relied upon as a top 4 NHL dman.
Steve Eminger suiting up in NHL playoff game
No capable PMD on backend.
Disgusting bottom 6 (Boyle and Pyatt played well though)
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Regarding small sample size: Youre missing the point. He produced like a #1C. That was not a problem these playoffs. Whether he will continue to play like that is doubtful, but doesn't change the fact that not having a "#1C" was NOT the problem these playoffs, because, in fact, we had someone that played like one.

Callahan gets top line minutes because he plays every PK, and is our net front guy on the PP.

Zuccarello produced like a top 6 player in the games in which he played with Brassard and not with Boyle and Pyatt. Was one of the better players on the ice when he was playing in a top 6 role.

Carl Hagelin is what Dupuis and Kunitz are; a perfect complimentary player that can fill in anywhere.

Stralman has played like a top 4 D since coming to the rangers. Very underrated. Boston also had THREE rookies in their D corps. Failed to take advantage.

Eminger was not the problem these playoffs, scoring goals was. But people want to trade Del Zotto so he's guaranteed to play BEFORE injuries.

That could be attributed to Torts not preaching his D to get involved in the rush as much. Del Zotto, McDonagh, Moore and Stralman all have the ability. Look at Detroit's D with Quincy and Ericsson jumping up all the time. Not every team has a "true" PMD.

Asham + Dorsett (for the most part) were good. 4th line was a problem, but there's no argument that taking out Asham was a boneheaded move, another reason he should be gone.

You're still yet to reply to my other post stating all the boneheaded decisions that cost us games these playoffs. Selective arguments huh? Or can those not be put on the coach either?
 
Between the Devils in the ECF last season and the Bruins this year, there seems to be a pretty effective gameplan to beat a Tortorella-coached team.

At this point in time, I'm indifferent as to whether Tortorella stays or goes. I think the Rangers can win with him but I also wouldn't mind a new voice, perhaps someone more forward-thinking.
 
Brian Boyle said:
Campbell is actually one of the more successful coaches for this franchises win-wise.

Sadly.
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I liked Campbell a lot. I did not like Mess running Zubov out of town. People did not like his treatment of Kovalev and somehow made it about Campbell's mistreatment of Russians in general. Campbell's kid is a helluva 4th line Center.
 
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