All Encompassing Coaching and Glen Cigar Thread Part V

[Clown Fiesta]

The same Dupuis who has been a top 20 ES producer the past few seasons and the same Kunitz who was 7th in league scoring and was a top line guy for two SC winning teams?

Who has Dupius played with the past few seasons? Kunitz is a good player, but acting like neither of them benefit from playing with the 1st and 2nd best players in the game is asinine.

So all the Rangers are missing are the top 2 players in the world.

But lets blame the coach!

Ummm yeah, thanks for playing. Never said that... You have to find a way to win with the pieces you have, Torts did that last year and couldn't do it this year. The blame falls squarely on his shoulders if he doesn't find a way to adapt his system to his players.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Who has Dupius played with the past few seasons? Kunitz is a good player, but acting like neither of them benefit from playing with the 1st and 2nd best players in the game is asinine.



Ummm yeah, thanks for playing. Never said that... You have to find a way to win with the pieces you have, Torts did that last year and couldn't do it this year. The blame falls squarely on his shoulders if he doesn't find a way to adapt his system to his players.

Thats such a sad and inept analysis on things. Boils down to Tortorella should win with insufficient rosters. One day, you guys will set your target on the true issue - roster construction.

 

[Kershaw]

Thats such a sad and inept analysis on things. Boils down to Tortorella should win with insufficient rosters. One day, you guys will set your target on the true issue - roster construction.

This is 100% spot on!

 

[3rd Guy High]

The same Dupuis who has been a top 20 ES producer the past few seasons and the same Kunitz who was 7th in league scoring and was a top line guy for two SC winning teams?

You mean the two guys that suck Crosby's dick and ride off of him? They were awful when Crosby was out. His point was that they would be top 6 on Pittsburgh.

We have offensive talent? lol.

Hagelin, Brassard, Callahan and Kreider are top 6 players. None of those guys would make the Bruins and Penguins top 6.

I am happy with Torts to make good use out of this inept roster. There is no way in hell they should've beaten the Caps.

Brassard just put up a PPG in the playoffs, where it matters. I don't know one team that doesn't have a playoff PPG player outside of their top 6. Callahan has a 28 goal season under his belt. Was on pace for ~55-60 points this year. He's not a top 6 player?

 

[Clown Fiesta]

Thats such a sad and inept analysis on things. Boils down to Tortorella should win with insufficient rosters. One day, you guys will set your target on the true issue - roster construction.

Haha. Yep sad and inept. You clearly know everything, we disagree how about we leave it at that instead of being condescending and trying to impose our perceived superiority on one another.

The same can be said of your statement, it's a two way street, no **** the roster needs to be constructed to win. That's quite obviously a very basic necessity, the second and most important aspect of winning is having a solid game plan and executing it.

How many teams with lesser players have upset teams before due to good coaching? How many teams with better players have lost due to poor coaching?

 

[3rd Guy High]

Does anyone still think we should have this idiot behind the bench? God forbid we have a PP coach because Tortorella has a circle of trust and only wants one other person on his bench.

Best goalie in the world? Lets sit back deep in our zone and screen the goalie some more. Gotta make it a fair game for the other team because they don't have someone as good as him you know.

We have a gritty 4th liner that can and has scored more goals than our superstar goal scorer Rick Nash in the playoffs? Let's scratch him and put in some perennial AHL all-star NHL scrub.

Clutch rookie comes in and scores some great goals for us in the playoffs when it matters? Let's not be patient with him until we're on the brink of elimination again.

Oh, and let's play a 40 year old slow as molasses defenseman who hasn't played a game in almost 2 months versus a 20 year old rookie with fresh legs who has played a game more recently than that.

Brassard is lighting up the playoffs in the first round? ****. He shouldn't be doing that, let's put Mr.1-goal-Nash with him so Boston can cover both of them with Chara! Genius!

Zuccarello plays well with Brassard? Demote him to play with Byron Boy and Taylor Pyatt while successfully breaking up the two lines that have been the best for us in the playoffs.

Our PP runs at a 5% rate? Let's keep the same guys out there when we have someone who brought us success sitting on the bench (Moore).

The only good thing he did this postseason was bench Richards. And that should have been done a loooooong time ago. But no, we have people in here defending him.

I don't know if Lindberg could have been brought over either, so I can't blame him for that, but I would have had a kid who was a playoff MVP a few weeks ago in my lineup immediately.

If roster construction is the sole reason our offense sucks, let's explain these bonehead decisions then.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Haha. Yep sad and inept. You clearly know everything, we disagree how about we leave it at that instead of being condescending and trying to impose our perceived superiority on one another.

The same can be said of your statement, it's a two way street, no **** the roster needs to be constructed to win. That's quite obviously a very basic necessity, the second and most important aspect of winning is having a solid game plan and executing it.

How many teams with lesser players have upset teams before due to good coaching? How many teams with better players have lost due to poor coaching?

One question. Do you honestly think this team shouldve went further?

 

[Kershaw]

You mean the two guys that suck Crosby's dick and ride off of him? They were awful when Crosby was out. His point was that they would be top 6 on Pittsburgh.

Dupuis's most common ES linemates last year were Jordan Staal and Chris Kunitz. He put up a career year that season, largely playing away from Crosby.

Kunitz does leech off of Crosby, but he's still very much a top 6 player and has been for his entire career. From day 1, he was put on a line with Andy MacDonald and Teemu Selanne and has never looked backed. He has always been a fixture in the top line for 2 contending rosters. The epitome of a super complimentary player.

Brassard just put up a PPG in the playoffs, where it matters. I don't know one team that doesn't have a playoff PPG player outside of their top 6. Callahan has a 28 goal season under his belt. Was on pace for ~55-60 points this year. He's not a top 6 player?

Brassard can easily be a flash in the pan. Look at Ville Leino's playoff performance in 2010, now he is a grade A scrub. His previous pedigree in 6 NHL seasons suggest he's highly inconsistent in a top 6 role and has been in the doghouse for Richards and Hitchcock.

Callahan is probably a top 6 player, but not on the teams I listed. He gets a lot of points because someone has to score with that much ice time.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

One question. Do you honestly think this team shouldve went further?

Did I ever say that?

Did they have the potential to go further, yes. Players didn't play to the best of their ability for long stretches this season. The coach didn't make the best personnel choices at times and failed to COACH them up to their abilities. Like I said it's a two way street.

But the fact that players didn't perform and the team as a whole didn't perform up to their potential which I believe was greater than 6th in the east and barely eeking out victory over the Caps and being thoroughly beaten by the Bruins. Ultimately lands on the coaching staff, especially when the offense goes dry for long stretches and the PP is catastrophic.

I like Torts, I wish he wasn't so stubborn and would loosen up a bit with his system, we don't need to lead the league in blocked shots and collapse as much as we do. We need to open it up more and sustain pressure, that's how you win, that's how Boston just beat us and they are very similar to us defensively.

The Bruins were the better team, but they beat us with a lesser goalie and Holtby looked like Dryden against us two years in a row, reason being? We don't sustain pressure, and the opposing teams defense and goaltender have a pretty easy night. Most of the time.

 

[Pizza]

Predictable stuff from a disappointed fan base. If there were truly a better coach out there that would be willing to coach in New York then it might be worth considering.

There isn't and won't be.

Torts got a lot out of a very banged up team with two unproductive superstars and a bunch of kids with not much experience. They need to tweak things a bit, but there is a lot to work with.

Hopefully Staal comes back & Richards gets bought out. This season will help bring maturity to some of the younger players. They need to find some scoring support for Nash.

And the Rangers need to FINALLY find players to help them deal with the physical environment of the playoffs. Teams like Boston, L.A. and Pitt have good mix of skill and physicality...right now we don't.

 

[aufheben]

One question. Do you honestly think this team shouldve went further?

I'm surprised they made it this far to be honest. 1st in the East, hey, let's change half the forwards!

I still have very mixed feelings about the Nash trade. Look at last years roster and look at this one, the turnover is insane. I doubt anyone short of Mike Babcock could have got much more out of this team.

Edit: This doesn't mean I'd be opposed to replacing Torts.

 

[Pizza]

Does everyone saying fire him honestly think any other coach would coach this team further than this with Staal, Clowe, Stralman and Powe injured and Richards completely useless?

Don't get into facts. It does not work here. Tort's is one hell of a coach. We are a fan base full lemmings always in search of greener grass.

 

[haveandare]

Predictable stuff from a disappointed fan base. If there were truly a better coach out there that would be willing to coach in New York then it might be worth considering.

There isn't and won't be.

Torts got a lot out of a very banged up team with two unproductive superstars and a bunch of kids with not much experience. They need to tweak things a bit, but there is a lot to work with.

Hopefully Staal comes back & Richards gets bought out. This season will help bring maturity to some of the younger players. They need to find some scoring support for Nash.

And the Rangers need to FINALLY find players to help them deal with the physical environment of the playoffs. Teams like Boston, L.A. and Pitt have good mix of skill and physicality...right now we don't.

Great post. I agree with pretty much all of this. Torts has had good results considering the teams he's had to work with. If there were a great coach out there that was available, it'd be wise to consider him, but firing Torts to retread some of the guys out there now would be silly.

 

[Kershaw]

I'm surprised they made it this far to be honest. 1st in the East, hey, let's change half the forwards!

I still have very mixed feelings about the Nash trade. Look at last years roster and look at this one, the turnover is insane. I doubt anyone short of Mike Babcock could have got much more out of this team.

Babcock is good no doubt, but even he wouldn't help this team advance. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are directly related to his success. The Rangers have no player sans Lundqvist comparable to those two.

 

[ImIdaho]

Don't get into facts. It does not work here. Tort's is one hell of a coach. We are a fan base full lemmings always in search of greener grass.

We went further but it was the same old story then as it is now: have the other team bring the offensive pressure and clench your ******* really tight that the shots don't go in.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Don't get into facts. It does not work here. Tort's is one hell of a coach. We are a fan base full lemmings always in search of greener grass.

I won't deny Torts is a "hell of a coach" nor would I break stuff around the house if Torts comes back but I'd still like to see a change. I think Torts has run his course here. It happens and it's time for a new coach and a new approach.

I just hate making coaching changes during the season. Sometimes you can't help it. I'd rather make the change now so everybody is on the same page when camp starts in September. A new voice, some better players, a new mentality, why not?

Torts takes way to much garbage around here. I'll admit that but still......it's time to make a change...

 

[MessierIsGod]

He probably won't get fired but I really hope he changes his system. His type of grinding defense first hockey is hard to watch. Lets make the game fun again for the players and the fans. It's ok to win games 5-4. I think the rangers are at the top of the list of boring hockey games.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

I won't deny Torts is a "hell of a coach" nor would I break stuff around the house if Torts comes back but I'd still like to see a change. I think Torts has run his course here. It happens and it's time for a new coach and a new approach.

I just hate making coaching changes during the season. Sometimes you can't help it. I'd rather make the change now so everybody is on the same page when camp starts in September. A new voice, some better players, a new mentality, why not?

Torts takes way to much garbage around here. I'll admit that but still......it's time to make a change...

Pretty much this. Not calling for his head, just open to change. It isn't like this was his first year here, I think he had the perfect team for his system last year and we didn't get the job done. What's the other option here? Continually go through roster turnover to find him the right players?

I really like Torts to be honest, he has grown on me a bunch since his first year and I definitely respect him as a coach.

 

[3rd Guy High]

Dupuis's most common ES linemates last year were Jordan Staal and Chris Kunitz. He put up a career year that season, largely playing away from Crosby.

Kunitz does leech off of Crosby, but he's still very much a top 6 player and has been for his entire career. From day 1, he was put on a line with Andy MacDonald and Teemu Selanne and has never looked backed. He has always been a fixture in the top line for 2 contending rosters. The epitome of a super complimentary player.



Brassard can easily be a flash in the pan. Look at Ville Leino's playoff performance in 2010, now he is a grade A scrub. His previous pedigree in 6 NHL seasons suggest he's highly inconsistent in a top 6 role and has been in the doghouse for Richards and Hitchcock.

Callahan is probably a top 6 player, but not on the teams I listed. He gets a lot of points because someone has to score with that much ice time.

Andy MacDonald and Temmu Selanne are VERY good players. My point is, the players you listed aside from Kreider would have played in the top 6 over him. Who knows what Kreider would look like if he had a coach that was patient with him and put him with the best player in the world.

Tortorella still had #1 center production in the playoffs. So don't use that as an excuse. If he wasn't producing as a #1 center, then I could agree with your statement. But for now, both Brassard and Stepan fit the bill.

Using two games of Hamrlik-Eminger as a "depth" excuse is ********. What's the excuse for the 3 games before Stralman got hurt?

 

[ImIdaho]

I really like Torts to be honest, he has grown on me a bunch since his first year and I definitely respect him as a coach.

I don't.

Like the special teams being tarnished because he has a very small circle of people he can trust, he throws certain people under the bus (Hagelin on PP), he gets snippy, vulgar, and downright wrongfully defensive when asked legitimate questions on what he will do to improve the team or right whatever wrong.

 

[aufheben]

Pretty much this. Not calling for his head, just open to change. It isn't like this was his first year here, I think he had the perfect team for his system last year and we didn't get the job done. What's the other option here? Continually go through roster turnover to find him the right players?

I really like Torts to be honest, he has grown on me a bunch since his first year and I definitely respect him as a coach.

The only other option should have been keep that team intact and try again next year.

 

[nyr2k2]

Nah nah nah nah, hey hey hey, goodbye...

 

[Pizza]

I won't deny Torts is a "hell of a coach" nor would I break stuff around the house if Torts comes back but I'd still like to see a change. I think Torts has run his course here. It happens and it's time for a new coach and a new approach.

I just hate making coaching changes during the season. Sometimes you can't help it. I'd rather make the change now so everybody is on the same page when camp starts in September. A new voice, some better players, a new mentality, why not?

Torts takes way to much garbage around here. I'll admit that but still......it's time to make a change...

Love ya Son, but your wrong. Normally you make more sense than any fifty posters in this nut house and you make some good points....but you are wrong here.

If Tort's did anything this year he convinced me more than ever that he's the guy. He and the team over came a tremendous amount of adversity. Boston was just too big, tough and talented. We need to put teams out there that have a much better balance of skill and toughness. Then and only then will we get to the finals.

 

[3rd Guy High]

He probably won't get fired but I really hope he changes his system. His type of grinding defense first hockey is hard to watch. Lets make the game fun again for the players and the fans. It's ok to win games 5-4. I think the rangers are at the top of the list of boring hockey games.

This. Look at ottawa for example. Everyone expected them to be at the bottom of the league with their injuries. Their coach made hockey "fun" for them again.

Pretty much this. Not calling for his head, just open to change. It isn't like this was his first year here, I think he had the perfect team for his system last year and we didn't get the job done. What's the other option here? Continually go through roster turnover to find him the right players?

I really like Torts to be honest, he has grown on me a bunch since his first year and I definitely respect him as a coach.

Also this. We have new players. Players that are more fit for an open system. Who in our forward group, aside from Stepan, Boyle and Callahan, actually lay out and block shots? Exactly. So why are we sitting back in position to block them, when we can be a little further up, prevent them, and give us a chance to force the other team to turnover the puck.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Nah nah nah nah, hey hey hey, goodbye...

Do you honestly believe that?

I don't. But here's to hoping!