All Encompassing Coaching and Glen Cigar Thread Part V

[Kris Chreider]

Torts stresses board work and hard puck battles way too much. Whenever there's any forecheck by the other team whatsoever, the defense just throws it around the boards. The forwards waste 15-30 seconds trying to get it off the boards, and it usually leads to their D getting a clear shot since everyone is on the half wall.

This causes our total lack of a transition game. By this point, after the other team has had 1-2 minutes and a few good cycles and opportunities, everyone's out of gas and it gets sent off the glass to repeat the cycle. Best case, we at least dump into their zone past the red line.

Not only that, but our defensemen are clueless about outlet passes.

Don't even get me started on the PP. Torts and Sullivan have no idea how to run a PP. No net presence whatsoever, we can't set up to save our own lives, and the QBs make poor decisions with the puck.

Torts needs to tell them dumping is a last resort, defensemen need to pick their head up and assess their options before shooting a wraparound, and he should show them film of the Pens/Caps PP.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The time can still be now. The Rangers shouldn't pull a Calgary Flames and continue to toil in mediocrity and make it continuous goals of limping into the playoffs. Trade players while they have high value.

It could be, but it shouldnt be.

For all their faults, the Rangers still have the best goaltender in the world and a lot of very solid, very young players. Theres no reason to blow that all up.

 

[poeman]

Alain Vigneault got fired by the Canucks...Dare I say, fire Torts, hire Alain?

Torts refusal to adapt and change the system has us ****ed

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Alain Vigneault got fired by the Canucks...Dare I say, fire Torts, hire Alain?

Torts refusal to adapt and change the system has us ****ed

Canucks fan chiming in. This would probably be a lateral move for you guys, he refused to alter/change his system after 2 years, and was perhaps even more frustrating than Torts in this regard (especially in the playoffs).

 

[Kris Chreider]

Alain Vigneault got fired by the Canucks...Dare I say, fire Torts, hire Alain?

Torts refusal to adapt and change the system has us ****ed

AV puts too much emphasis on skating and pure speed. Clowe, Stepan, Pyatt, Boyle, Richards, Del Zotto, and Girardi are all slower than average.

 

[3rdlineglory]

AV puts too much emphasis on skating and pure speed. Clowe, Stepan, Pyatt, Boyle, Richards, Del Zotto, and Girardi are all slower than average.

So I guess Hagelin, Moore, McDonagh, Kreider, Nash, Callahan, Stralman, and Powe don't matter? We should think about those players too.

 

[3rdlineglory]

I know this place is a breeding ground for negativity, but does anyone else think our zone entry has gotten better lately? Could that be our personnel or Torts adapting? I think the neutral zone transition game is still awful. Personnel or Torts? I still have mixed feelings about him, but I think Torts can change the game strategy with a full camp and season. I'm willing to give him another shot in October if no one better is available.

 

[Holocene]

No, but I think letting both Prust and Feds go was dumb in retrospect. We have a good, young team now. Let them mature together.

This. Please no more roster turn over. I'm okay with letting go of Torts. His system is archaic, ineffective and boring, we're not going to win the cup using his system with the personnel we have. Square peg, round hole.

 

[poeman]

Canucks fan chiming in. This would probably be a lateral move for you guys, he refused to alter/change his system after 2 years, and was perhaps even more frustrating than Torts in this regard (especially in the playoffs).

How much was goaltending a root of your team's problem?

I mean i understand there was secondary scoring issues, but your GM is a joke too with his moves.

I know Alain could have done better with your team but any more insight would be useful

 

[Kel Varnsen]

This. Please no more roster turn over. I'm okay with letting go of Torts. His system is archaic, ineffective and boring, we're not going to win the cup using his system with the personnel we have. Square peg, round hole.

No, this is the mistake torts haters make. It's not a case of square peg, round hole. It's a case of ****** peg, round hole. There is no system that would let this crap team be elite. We have an "elite" forward who doesn't score in the playoffs, and a 1c who plays on the fourth line and still gets dominated. Case closed. Most of you guys wanted to gut the depth for Nash, well Nash has sucked so it's no wonder we're struggling. We should have built like the bruins with a ton of depth, but people always wanted "star" talent. Imagine we had Dubi, Anisimov, Erixon, and Prust right now minus Nash. That would be a badass lineup.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

No, this is the mistake torts haters make. It's not a case of square peg, round hole. It's a case of ****** peg, round hole. There is no system that would let this crap team be elite. We have an "elite" forward who doesn't score in the playoffs, and a 1c who plays on the fourth line and still gets dominated. Case closed. Most of you guys wanted to gut the depth for Nash, well Nash has sucked so it's no wonder we're struggling. We should have built like the bruins with a ton of depth, but people always wanted "star" talent. Imagine we had Dubi, Anisimov, Erixon, and Prust right now minus Nash. That would be a badass lineup.

This is a CAP league. You're not going to get a much better roster than what you currently have.

Fact is, talent wise, New York is easily in the top 10.

Absolving the coaching staff and laying all blame on the players is idiotic.

 

[haohmaru]

technically not impossible, but highly improbably. backtracking to trades 20 yrs in the past proves it.

Actually, it does prove it. And, I'm only including Stanley Cup winners off the top of my head.

Franchise-type players? Suter, Parise, Kovalchuk, Hossa, Kessel, Richards, Carter, Nash, Gaborik, Phaneuf, etc... all moved, all playing on teams that didn't draft them, all living proof that you don't have to draft them to have them on your team. All post lockout. All off the top of my head.

 

[MessierIsGod]

I know this place is a breeding ground for negativity, but does anyone else think our zone entry has gotten better lately? Could that be our personnel or Torts adapting? I think the neutral zone transition game is still awful. Personnel or Torts? I still have mixed feelings about him, but I think Torts can change the game strategy with a full camp and season. I'm willing to give him another shot in October if no one better is available.

Plus, we need to give him another shot at improving our PP. it's still greater than 0%. I think more JAM will solve both our transition game and PP issues.

 

[Kershaw]

Actually, it does prove it. And, I'm only including Stanley Cup winners off the top of my head.

Franchise-type players? Suter, Parise, Kovalchuk, Hossa, Kessel, Richards, Carter, Nash, Gaborik, Phaneuf, etc... all moved, all playing on teams that didn't draft them, all living proof that you don't have to draft them to have them on your team. All post lockout. All off the top of my head.

lol besides Suter and Kovalchuk, none of those guys are elite franchise players. Kovalchuk is a winger also. My post was referring to defenders and centerman. The truly elite ones hardly ever hit the market.

 

[haohmaru]

lol besides Suter and Kovalchuk, none of those guys are elite franchise players. Kovalchuk is a winger also. My post was referring to defenders and centerman. The truly elite ones hardly ever hit the market.

Now you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You said:

Yes.

It's the only way to get franchise centers and even franchise defensemen.

And, above, you're admitting that Suter is a franchise defenseman who is playing on the Wild despite not being drafted by them.

Furthermore, your "franchise" player list includes players that are now playing for other organizations (Ladd, Staal) and includes "franchise" players like Marc Andre Fleury? Seguin? Those are "franchise" type guys and Nash isn't? You're as delusional as your rebuild plan.

There isn't a GM in the league that doesn't think Nash is franchise player.

 

[Kershaw]

And, above, you're admitting that Suter is a franchise defenseman who is playing on the Wild despite not being drafted by them.

Note the emphasis on 'even' franchise defenseman. They get moved around more frequently than elite franchise centermen. Elite #1 Centers are very rarely open on the market and the best and most efficient way to get them is by drafting because no one wants to trade them.

Furthermore, your "franchise" player list includes players that are now playing for other organizations (Ladd, Staal) and includes "franchise" players like Marc Andre Fleury? Seguin? Those are "franchise" type guys and Nash isn't? You're as delusional as your rebuild plan.

Look at that post again:

CAROLINA HURRICANES:
Eric Staal (1rst Overall)
Andrew Ladd (4th Overall)

ANAHEIM DUCKS:
(Drafted Bobby Ryan 2nd overall in 2005, not on roster)

DETROIT RED WINGS:
N/A

PITTSBURGH PENGUINS:
Evgeni Malkin (2nd overall)
Sidney Crosby (1st overall)
MA Fleury (1st overall)
Jordan Staal (1st overall)

CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS
Patrick Kane (1st overall)
Jonathan Toews (3rd overall)

BOSTON BRUINS
Tyler Seguin (2nd Overall)

LOS ANGELES KINGS
Drew Doughty (2nd Overall)

A lot of franchise players.

Notice how I never even remotely suggested MAF or Seguin or Ladd are franchise players. But a lot of the lottery picks turned out to be franchise players.

There isn't a GM in the league that doesn't think Nash is franchise player.

Proof?

GMs can also be incompetent evaluators of talent. Doug MacLean, former CBJ GM said that Nash was worth Rask, Seguin and 2 first rounders.

I find it hard to believe that a one-dimensional RWer with a PPG only slightly higher than Martin Havlat's (0.8 vs. 0.78) and mediocre possession numbers is considered a franchise player, but I'm sure I'm in the minority in this one. Lundqvist is the Rangers only franchise player.

 

[haohmaru]

Note the emphasis on 'even' franchise defenseman. They get moved around more frequently than elite franchise centermen. Elite #1 Centers are very rarely open on the market and the best and most efficient way to get them is by drafting because no one wants to trade them.

Again, now you're distorting what you originally said instead of manning up and admitting that you're wrong. You said that it's the ONLY way to get franchise centers and defenseman. Now, you're spewing some crap about emphasizing "even" defenseman instead of acknowledging that your original post, by your own admission (Suter), is wrong.

I really can't take any of your posts seriously when you can't even acknowledge a mistake like this. It would be much easier just to say, "yeah, you know, I meant to say that it's very difficult to get a #1 franchise player/defender instead of saying the draft is the ONLY way to get one".

This is as black and white as it gets and you're just changing **** around instead of admitting what's as obvious as the nose on your face. Probably part of the reason a lot of people around here think you're trolling. Anyway, I'm done with this.

 

[NikC]

No, this is the mistake torts haters make. It's not a case of square peg, round hole. It's a case of ****** peg, round hole. There is no system that would let this crap team be elite. We have an "elite" forward who doesn't score in the playoffs, and a 1c who plays on the fourth line and still gets dominated. Case closed. Most of you guys wanted to gut the depth for Nash, well Nash has sucked so it's no wonder we're struggling. We should have built like the bruins with a ton of depth, but people always wanted "star" talent. Imagine we had Dubi, Anisimov, Erixon, and Prust right now minus Nash. That would be a badass lineup.

Lol ... badass my ass. Duby $4m for 1 goal. He hijacked his own career by over valuing his abilities
Anisomov skates with his head down and vanishes, Prust had doorknobs for hands, and Erixon couldn't crack the lineup. ..

Talk about delusional

 

[Kershaw]

Again, now you're distorting what you originally said instead of manning up and admitting that you're wrong. You said that it's the ONLY way to get franchise centers and defenseman. Now, you're spewing some crap about emphasizing "even" defenseman instead of acknowledging that your original post, by your own admission (Suter), is wrong.

I really can't take any of your posts seriously when you can't even acknowledge a mistake like this. It would be much easier just to say, "yeah, you know, I meant to say that it's very difficult to get a #1 franchise player/defender instead of saying the draft is the ONLY way to get one".

This is as black and white as it gets and you're just changing **** around instead of admitting what's as obvious as the nose on your face. Probably part of the reason a lot of people around here think you're trolling. Anyway, I'm done with this.

I didn't say anything wrong, so I don't feel the need to 'man up'.

 

[Player big P]

Torts stresses board work and hard puck battles way too much.

Which they always, invariably lose.

 

[Kershaw]

This is a CAP league. You're not going to get a much better roster than what you currently have.

Fact is, talent wise, New York is easily in the top 10.

Absolving the coaching staff and laying all blame on the players is idiotic.

How are the Rangers top 10 talent wise? They have Hagelin, Callahan and Zuccarello in the top 6. Maybe top 10 in talent from defensemen and goaltenders. But overall, the forwards really weigh the team down.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Kershaw is amazing. He wants us to get rid of 75% of our roster and hope that we tank in the years when we can get franchise players. How has that worked out for Edmonton? NYI, FINALLY made the playoffs and lost in round 1. You're hoping a **** load of moves are perfect and are willing to throw away years of our lives watching a garbage product in the hopes that some day we become good. I'd throw away years of my life, if I were guaranteed a great product, but with no proof, I'm supposed to watch a garbage product hoping that some day they may be good?

 

[Kershaw]

No, this is the mistake torts haters make. It's not a case of square peg, round hole. It's a case of ****** peg, round hole. There is no system that would let this crap team be elite. We have an "elite" forward who doesn't score in the playoffs, and a 1c who plays on the fourth line and still gets dominated. Case closed. Most of you guys wanted to gut the depth for Nash, well Nash has sucked so it's no wonder we're struggling. We should have built like the bruins with a ton of depth, but people always wanted "star" talent. Imagine we had Dubi, Anisimov, Erixon, and Prust right now minus Nash. That would be a badass lineup.

Completely agree 100%.

Would rather have

Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Dorsett
Pyatt-Brassard-Zuccarello
Kreider-Boyle-Asham
Richards

Anisimov improving goal scoring rate each season:
'09-'10 - 82 games, 12 goals - 0.15 goals/game
'10-'11 - 82 games, 18 goals - 0.22 goals/game
'11-'12 - 79 games, 16 goals - 0.20 goals/game
'13-'13 - 35 games, 11 goals (82 games, 25 goals)- 0.31 goals/game

in that same time frame, he has now become Columbus's main 5on5 player. His sh% is relatively high, however. Dubi, like always has been puck possession phenom and was on pace for 56 pts. Erixon solidified roster spot on deep Jackets defense. I feel many Rangers fans underrate these 3 players severely.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

How are the Rangers top 10 talent wise? They have Hagelin, Callahan and Zuccarello in the top 6. Maybe top 10 in talent from defensemen and goaltenders. But overall, the forwards really weigh the team down.

Callahan with 3 full seasons would be a 50+ point scorer 3 straight years and would likely be close to a 30 goal scorer each of those years. He's not a top 6 guy? Zuccarello? I don't know that he's top 6 material. I also don't know that he isn't. He's one of the best passers and most creative players on the Rangers. If he ever develops some finish he'll EASILY be a top 6 forward. As it stands now, he's borderline. Hagelin is more of a complimentary player. He's played better in the playoffs than most of the team.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Completely agree 100%.

Would rather have

Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Dorsett
Pyatt-Brassard-Zuccarello
Kreider-Boyle-Asham
Richards

Anisimov improving goal scoring rate each season:
'09-'10 - 82 games, 12 goals - 0.15 goals/game
'10-'11 - 82 games, 18 goals - 0.22 goals/game
'11-'12 - 79 games, 16 goals - 0.20 goals/game
'13-'13 - 35 games, 11 goals (82 games, 25 goals)- 0.31 goals/game

in that same time frame, he has now become Columbus's main 5on5 player. His sh% is relatively high, however. Dubi, like always has been puck possession phenom and was on pace for 56 pts. Erixon solidified roster spot on deep Jackets defense. I feel many Rangers fans underrate these 3 players severely.

Anisimov on the Rangers and BJs has been a slightly above a 0.5 PPG player AT BEST. On CBJ, Brassard wasn't any better, but with the Rangers he was easily a #2 guy. He's much smarter and has much better vision than Anisimov. You're degrading the Rangers' top 6 and want Dubinsky who has 12 goals in his last 106 regular season games in the top 6. You want Dorsett, a slightly better offensively Prust in the top 6? Zucc has more skill and creativity in his pinky that Dorsett has in his body. He's been one of the players that wasn't a no show in these playoffs. Just unreal. You let your biases dictate your irrational decisions.