Toggle sidebar

All Encompassing Coaching and Glen Cigar Thread Part V

Status
Not open for further replies.
RGY said:
Yep. And great coaches show humility, admit their system isn't working, and they ADAPT and find ways to alter it so it works better with this roster. You can't change 23 roster players over the course of a season. You can change 1 coach.
Click to expand...

Let me ask you a question. Between the major roster turnover last summer, the lockout, the lack of an adequate training camp, a shortened 3 and a half month season, and ANOTHER major roster turnover, when would the coach be expected to implement an entirely new system of playing the game?

This would be a legitimate argument after a regular, full season. But as of now, its just ignorant.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Let me ask you a question. Between the major roster turnover last summer, the lockout, the lack of an adequate training camp, a shortened 3 and a half month season, and ANOTHER major roster turnover, when would the coach be expected to implement an entirely new system of playing the game?

This would be a legitimate argument after a regular, full season. But as of now, its just ignorant.
Click to expand...
It's just as IGNORANT to let this PP continue to be an absolute travesty all year and into the playoffs. You talk as if this team made the playoffs, no problem. No they squeaked in. What are you so weary of with implementing a new system into that? I love it, I love the constant defense of this coaching staff. There's never going to be a good time for Torts to change who he is as a coach. He has been coaching the same way since when he won the cup nine years ago. What success has he had since then? He was fired, we all know that. He is working his way towards another firing. This team sucked last year on the PP as well. And the one before that. Don't make the excuse about a shortened season with no training camp. If anything, being that every game counted for so much this season it only magnified how putrid his PP units and techniques are.
 
RGY said:
It's just as IGNORANT to let this PP continue to be an absolute travesty all year and into the playoffs. You talk as if this team made the playoffs, no problem. No they squeaked in. What are you so weary of with implementing a new system into that? I love it, I love the constant defense of this coaching staff. There's never going to be a good time for Torts to change who he is as a coach. He has been coaching the same way since when he won the cup nine years ago. What success has he had since then? He was fired, we all know that. He is working his way towards another firing. This team sucked last year on the PP as well. And the one before that. Don't make the excuse about a shortened season with no training camp. If anything, being that every game counted for so much this season it only magnified how putrid his PP units and techniques are.
Click to expand...

Before this season started many people, including a number of posters here, said that the Rangers would benefit the most from a shortened season because they wouldn't be as beaten up and tired from playing in Tort's shotblocking grinding system that wears players down. Now the shortened season is being used as an excuse for why they are so bad. It's kind of funny.
 
I said from the beginning that the shortened season would hurt the Rangers because I don't believe that there was a team who would've benefited more from a full camp and being fully conditioned.

I used to defend Tortorella, but I can't believe people still do at this point. Every single game is the same passive, no pressure, collapse in front of the net and allow the other team to set up a firing squad and look like they're on a PP when it's 5 on 5. Temporarily gain control of the puck, weakly throw it up the boards, where it's kept in and the cycle begins again. I don't remember who it was last night but they had the whole middle of the ice to clear it, and time to do it, and from the middle of the slot themselves they aimed and tried to throw it up the boards and it was kept it.

We've got the best goalie in the world and he's being constantly screened with this insistence on blocking shots. We've got a power play that's so bad it actually makes neutral commentators and analysts pissed off. The system, whatever it is, obviously simply doesn't work, and Tortorella stubbornly refuses to adapt it or change it every way. It's as if he genuinely, sincerely believes that he has, by himself, discovered the perfect, infallible way to play a game of hockey, and that if his players could only implement it as perfectly as it goes in his head, they'd be unbeatable. OBVIOUSLY it doesn't work. There is, and has been, too much talent on this team for it to be so offensively impotent. It's pathetic and embarrassing on a nightly basis, and it's clear as day that it's never going to win anything.

Fans of a team shouldn't have to pray for their team to get swept just because it MIGHT result in their stubborn, offense neutering coach being fired.
 
truebluegoalie said:
Before this season started many people, including a number of posters here, said that the Rangers would benefit the most from a shortened season because they wouldn't be as beaten up and tired from playing in Tort's shotblocking grinding system that wears players down. Now the shortened season is being used as an excuse for why they are so bad. It's kind of funny.
Click to expand...

A lot of those early season assumptions included Brad Richards playing like a #1 center and not an ECHL'er.

Kind of tough to blame Torts for that very, very serious problem, but Im sure you'll try.
 
Fire Tortorella.

Hire Tippett.

We win the cup with a coach that actually understands how offense works.
 
RGY said:
It's just as IGNORANT to let this PP continue to be an absolute travesty all year and into the playoffs. You talk as if this team made the playoffs, no problem. No they squeaked in. What are you so weary of with implementing a new system into that? I love it, I love the constant defense of this coaching staff. There's never going to be a good time for Torts to change who he is as a coach. He has been coaching the same way since when he won the cup nine years ago. What success has he had since then? He was fired, we all know that. He is working his way towards another firing. This team sucked last year on the PP as well. And the one before that. Don't make the excuse about a shortened season with no training camp. If anything, being that every game counted for so much this season it only magnified how putrid his PP units and techniques are.
Click to expand...

Are we talking about the PP or the even strength system? Two different things that you're jumping between -- with all the whining and complaining, I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

Anyway, you have a legitimate gripe with the PP. I dont know anyone who hasnt conceded that the PP is shot in every way. But, again, placing the blame on "Tortorella's inability to adapt" is vague and ignorant. Brad Richards forgetting how to play the game has as much if not more to do with the struggling powerplay than any sort of technical issues. Maybe the next coach can pull a PP QB out of his ass.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Are we talking about the PP or the even strength system? Two different things that you're jumping between -- with all the whining and complaining, I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

Anyway, you have a legitimate gripe with the PP. I dont know anyone who hasnt conceded that the PP is shot in every way. But, again, placing the blame on "Tortorella's inability to adapt" is vague and ignorant. Brad Richards forgetting how to play the game has as much if not more to do with the struggling powerplay than any sort of technical issues. Maybe the next coach can pull a PP QB out of his ass.
Click to expand...

The dump and chase is terribly ineffective. I can't tell you how many fast breaks we've had where the players instead of shooting the puck, spin around and try to start a cycle. There is never a player in front of the goalie. NEVER. A coach should be screaming from the bench 'GET YOUR ASS IN FRONT OF THE KEEPER AND SCREEN THE LIVING **** OUT OF HIM'. Because of that, there is nobody to pick up rebounds. Torts has no clue what the neutral zone even is or how to construct plays to get through it and create an offensive possession. To him, it's just the defensive zone. The power play would be much more effective if they had Nash carry the puck in, pass it to whomever is at the point, and parked him right in front of the goalie. Cycle, shoot, rebound, continue. The team is allergic to shooting the puck, and a coach should be screaming "SHOOT THE DAMN PUCK".
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Oh this should be a fun explanation. How so? Do tell.

Will it be another half-assed one where we keep our star player and try to pass it off as rebuilding?
Click to expand...
If I was in charge (5 yr rebuild plan)

1. Fire Sather, Gorton and Clark
2. Hire management from a winning organization that are content with youth movement. (Hextall)
3. Full roster turnaround. Lundqvst, Nash, Girardi, Brassard, Staal, Callahan, Pyatt, Boyle, Richards all moved. Keep MDZ, Moore, Stepan, McDonagh, Kreider, Hagelin along with other young players bought in from trade.
4. Sign hired mercenaries from FA and move them at TDD unless they play well.
5. 3 yr rebuild plan from the draft. 3 straight top 3 picks, hopefully picking up a few franchise players.
6. Compete for playoffs in yr 4.
7. Add finishing pieces in yr 5 and open up a 3 yr window for competing with ELCs and bridge contracts in place.
 
Kel Varnsen said:
What did you think of the Nash trade? Did you want to rebuild last season?
Click to expand...

Nash trade was awful IMO.

No I did not want to rebuild last season.I think a big move wasn't necessary, especially Sather shipping off four quality assets for a 1 dimensional 7.8mil right winger, not even a C or RH D, but another RWer when they had Gaborik and Callahan.
 
Kershaw said:
If I was in charge (5 yr rebuild plan)

1. Fire Sather, Gorton and Clark
2. Hire management from a winning organization that are content with youth movement. (Hextall)
3. Full roster turnaround. Lundqvst, Nash, Girardi, Brassard, Staal, Callahan, Pyatt, Boyle, Richards all moved. Keep MDZ, Moore, Stepan, McDonagh, Kreider, Hagelin along with other young players bought in from trade.
4. Sign hired mercenaries from FA and move them at TDD unless they play well.
5. 3 yr rebuild plan from the draft. 3 straight top 3 picks, hopefully picking up a few franchise players.
6. Compete for playoffs in yr 4.
7. Add finishing pieces in yr 5 and open up a 3 yr window for competing with ELCs and bridge contracts in place.
Click to expand...

Thats actually worse than what I was expecting -- and I was expecting bad.
 
Kershaw said:
If I was in charge (5 yr rebuild plan)

1. Fire Sather, Gorton and Clark
2. Hire management from a winning organization that are content with youth movement. (Hextall)
3. Full roster turnaround. Lundqvst, Nash, Girardi, Brassard, Staal, Callahan, Pyatt, Boyle, Richards all moved. Keep MDZ, Moore, Stepan, McDonagh, Kreider, Hagelin along with other young players bought in from trade.
4. Sign hired mercenaries from FA and move them at TDD unless they play well.
5. 3 yr rebuild plan from the draft. 3 straight top 3 picks, hopefully picking up a few franchise players.
6. Compete for playoffs in yr 4.
7. Add finishing pieces in yr 5 and open up a 3 yr window for competing with ELCs and bridge contracts in place.
Click to expand...

8. So we compete about the same time our franchise goalie gets old and/or leaves.

Gotcha.

Wait I just saw that you're moving Lundqvist too. Forget what I said...your post is irrelevant to me now!
 
Kershaw said:
Nash trade was awful IMO.

No I did not want to rebuild last season.I think a big move wasn't necessary, especially Sather shipping off four quality assets for a 1 dimensional 7.8mil right winger, not even a C or RH D, but another RWer when they had Gaborik and Callahan.
Click to expand...

It evened itself out with the Gaborik trade. Still kind of a head scratcher though. Sather should have also been fired back in 2000. Dolan is actually Pejorative Slured. Can we just get a new owner?
 
Top 5 picks drafted from cup winning teams post 2006

CAROLINA HURRICANES:
Eric Staal (1rst Overall)
Andrew Ladd (4th Overall)

ANAHEIM DUCKS:
(Drafted Bobby Ryan 2nd overall in 2005, not on roster)

DETROIT RED WINGS:
N/A

PITTSBURGH PENGUINS:
Evgeni Malkin (2nd overall)
Sidney Crosby (1st overall)
MA Fleury (1st overall)
Jordan Staal (1st overall)

CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS
Patrick Kane (1st overall)
Jonathan Toews (3rd overall)

BOSTON BRUINS
Tyler Seguin (2nd Overall)

LOS ANGELES KINGS
Drew Doughty (2nd Overall)

A lot of franchise players.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Are we talking about the PP or the even strength system? Two different things that you're jumping between -- with all the whining and complaining, I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

Anyway, you have a legitimate gripe with the PP. I dont know anyone who hasnt conceded that the PP is shot in every way. But, again, placing the blame on "Tortorella's inability to adapt" is vague and ignorant. Brad Richards forgetting how to play the game has as much if not more to do with the struggling powerplay than any sort of technical issues. Maybe the next coach can pull a PP QB out of his ass.
Click to expand...

BRB, I have a gripe with both ES and the PP. However, I have more of a problem with the PP. ES has not been awful, though I think a lot of everything that happen stems from ES. The inept ability to have a transition game from playing a collapsing defense never allows this team to carry momentum or get into an offensive groove that they can then carry onto a PP possession. They have zero confidence with the puck and they constantly fall back on the dump and chase. They collapse so low that they don't have numbers going the other way and therefore all the puck carrier can do is dump it in. And then when we dump it in we lose the puck battle because we don't have the numbers. It is a trickle down effect. I think they get away with the good enough ES play because of the goalie they have and their top 4 defensemen. I really believe the positive feeling for the Torts supporters about strong ES play is clouded way too much. The inadequacies are there. Their whole system restricts their offense.

But even so, going back to the PP, if Torts was a strong offensive coach or if he had the PP units performing then I could lay off on their loose collapsing defensive strategy because at least their PP units would be winning games. However, they aren't. The Caps series should not have went 7 games. They shouldn't have played as many playoff games last year as they did with a good PP. But this year's PP is even worse. 5%. That's awful. They could've taken Game 1 and last night with just an average PP. It is sad. Very sad. They've need a PP coach during Torts' entire tenure. He refuses to let anyone in.

I honestly, do not hate Torts. You cannot blame him for what has happened to Richards. I think Torts has great defensive qualities, as does Sullivan. I think Torts makes certain players tougher and prepares them better. But certain players he does not work well with and he just pushes them away rather them integrate them. You need to score goals to win the game. You cannot rely on a grind it out game with a lucky bounce or garbage goals all the time to win.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom