All Encompassing Coaching and Glen Cigar Thread Part V

[filth e mcnasti]

Torts stresses board work and hard puck battles way too much. Whenever there's any forecheck by the other team whatsoever, the defense just throws it around the boards. The forwards waste 15-30 seconds trying to get it off the boards, and it usually leads to their D getting a clear shot since everyone is on the half wall.

This causes our total lack of a transition game. By this point, after the other team has had 1-2 minutes and a few good cycles and opportunities, everyone's out of gas and it gets sent off the glass to repeat the cycle. Best case, we at least dump into their zone past the red line.

Not only that, but our defensemen are clueless about outlet passes.

Don't even get me started on the PP. Torts and Sullivan have no idea how to run a PP. No net presence whatsoever, we can't set up to save our own lives, and the QBs make poor decisions with the puck.

Torts needs to tell them dumping is a last resort, defensemen need to pick their head up and assess their options before shooting a wraparound, and he should show them film of the Pens/Caps PP.

spot on.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I love it how people say we should be built like the Bruins with tons of depth. How many teams are built with tons of depth and little high end power, or how many of those are successful? The Bruins are unique in that. All I remember is people *****ing last year about the lack of high end talent, now we don't need it? People just need reasons to *****. Teams need high end talent to win. The Bruins are an exception and not the rule and even then Bergeron and Kreijci are a great 1-2 punch. Kreijci is one of the top point producers in the playoffs.

 

[MustarddTiger]

I hope all you Tortorella haters are really ready to part ways with the guy, and the style of hockey he's developed for this team over the past few years.

Sure, it's not flashy offensive or West-coast style hockey, sure our PP has sucked this year.

But let's be honest.

I just think a lot of you are delusional about how good we'd be with a different coach and a more offensive system...Our players really aren't good enough offensively...and it's simple things, like we simply don't have enough people who can snipe and bury the puck, we don't have enough people who are stepping up, with killer instinct, and making plays. These things that you guys think will just magically change with a new coach, given our players, GOOD LUCK..

This team, isn't going to be able to change to an offensive system, and beat teams like Pittsburgh...Period. You guys are crazy. Torts made a team last year that honestly had no business getting that far, almost making the cup (how we let the Devils beat us last year, damn that slow ass fourth line).

Be a bit more rational here...I personally love the style of hockey Torts has brought for us the past few years...You should miss players like Duby, Prust, Arty, Fedo, and the Staal injury, and you should be mad at Nash for not manning up (are we going to hear that he's injured, I damn well hope so, although I think he's shown in spurts that he's not, and is just playing without confidence).

What happened to everyone and the style of hockey that we loved, Duby, Prust, Fedo, Arty, Callahan, out there knocking faces, and making it damn near impossible for teams like the Caps and Pittsburgh to score goals. We were a ****ing menace.

If you want to move towards a more offensive style of system, be my guest, I think it's a pipe dream, and I'm still more just mad at the fact that we ever traded those players away for Nash. If anything, we should've just traded Gaborik away for the players we got for him this season. Picking up another defenseman like Moore, adding what was honestly missing the most from last years team is someone like Brassard, and some MORE grit with Dorsett, and just getting rid of Gaborik. That's what should have happened, forget about Nash...People should honestly be furious at the Nash trade, given how well everyone played last year. And if you want to move towards a more offensive system, then for ****s sake, don't trade a player like Gaborik away....

Don't panic, get Staal back healthy, hope Nash doesn't play like a ****ing ***** and stays healthy, maybe get Clowe back for the right price, and just get the guy a different damn power play coach next season!!!

 

[NikC]

Kershaw is amazing. He wants us to get rid of 75% of our roster and hope that we tank in the years when we can get franchise players. How has that worked out for Edmonton? NYI, FINALLY made the playoffs and lost in round 1. You're hoping a **** load of moves are perfect and are willing to throw away years of our lives watching a garbage product in the hopes that some day we become good. I'd throw away years of my life, if I were guaranteed a great product, but with no proof, I'm supposed to watch a garbage product hoping that some day they may be good?

the irony is he hates Krieder, who has the potential to be top 6, 30g scorer. one of the few prospects we've drafted with the tools to be a consistent goal scorer...


Funny thing is the Islanders is they always go on a tear at some point and become the " hottest" team in the league only to fall out of contention. they make the playoffs in a shortened season. great.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

How much was goaltending a root of your team's problem?

I mean i understand there was secondary scoring issues, but your GM is a joke too with his moves.

I know Alain could have done better with your team but any more insight would be useful

Most of our fans understand that MG and the players are part of the problem; though it was quite clear that coaching has been the achilles heel in the playoffs. Make no mistake, AV is a good coach! He's the type of coach that can take a **** team (lacking skill/superstars) into the playoffs. However, he's not the type of coach that can make adjustments in the game, or a playoff series. He lives and dies by his system....and I think his playoff record attests to that.

-Goaltending was an issue in the playoffs, but that largely stems from poor decision-making from the coach. AV opted to start an injured Schneider in game 3 against SJ despite Luongo's spectacular play in games 1 and 2.
-AV has properly developed young talent like Tanev, Edler, and Kesler to name a few, but has dropped the ball on some of our skilled prospects (Shirokov, Grabner, Hodgson). He has a tendency to overstress the defensive side of the game and the leash is very tight when it comes to prospects. For instance, if a prospect scores a goal, and than gives up a good scoring chance the next play, the prospect would be likely be benched for an extended period of time. He's the type of coach that would likely prefer his grinders (that score 1-5 goals a year) over the prospect/player that's capable of being a 2nd/3rd liner.
-He's very hesitant on using timeouts, not to mention making adjustments when the going gets tough. Usually would lead to a snowballing effect as we saw in the 2011 SCF's. The team would usually pack it in, and it was clear that the players would sometimes tune him out.

 

[JohnC]

People want AV? If this post doesn't ring some bells then I don't know what will

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/sh...1&postcount=56

 

[Kershaw]

the irony is he hates Krieder, who has the potential to be top 6, 30g scorer. one of the few prospects we've drafted with the tools to be a consistent goal scorer...

No, I do not hate Kreider.

 

[3rd Guy High]

Most of our fans understand that MG and the players are part of the problem; though it was quite clear that coaching has been the achilles heel in the playoffs. Make no mistake, AV is a good coach! He's the type of coach that can take a **** team (lacking skill/superstars) into the playoffs. However, he's not the type of coach that can make adjustments in the game, or a playoff series. He lives and dies by his system....and I think his playoff record attests to that.

-Goaltending was an issue in the playoffs, but that largely stems from poor decision-making from the coach. AV opted to start an injured Schneider in game 3 against SJ despite Luongo's spectacular play in games 1 and 2.
-AV has properly developed young talent like Tanev, Edler, and Kesler to name a few, but has dropped the ball on some of our skilled prospects (Shirokov, Grabner, Hodgson). He has a tendency to overstress the defensive side of the game and the leash is very tight when it comes to prospects. For instance, if a prospect scores a goal, and than gives up a good scoring chance the next play, the prospect would be likely be benched for an extended period of time. He's the type of coach that would likely prefer his grinders (that score 1-5 goals a year) over the prospect/player that's capable of being a 2nd/3rd liner.
-He's very hesitant on using timeouts, not to mention making adjustments when the going gets tough. Usually would lead to a snowballing effect as we saw in the 2011 SCF's. The team would usually pack it in, and it was clear that the players would sometimes tune him out.

Sounds like John Tortorella. Do not want.

 

[Drewbackatu*]

I hope all you Tortorella haters are really ready to part ways with the guy, and the style of hockey he's developed for this team over the past few years.

Sure, it's not flashy offensive or West-coast style hockey, sure our PP has sucked this year.

But let's be honest.

I just think a lot of you are delusional about how good we'd be with a different coach and a more offensive system...Our players really aren't good enough offensively...and it's simple things, like we simply don't have enough people who can snipe and bury the puck, we don't have enough people who are stepping up, with killer instinct, and making plays. These things that you guys think will just magically change with a new coach, given our players, GOOD LUCK..

This team, isn't going to be able to change to an offensive system, and beat teams like Pittsburgh...Period. You guys are crazy. Torts made a team last year that honestly had no business getting that far, almost making the cup (how we let the Devils beat us last year, damn that slow ass fourth line).

Be a bit more rational here...I personally love the style of hockey Torts has brought for us the past few years...You should miss players like Duby, Prust, Arty, Fedo, and the Staal injury, and you should be mad at Nash for not manning up (are we going to hear that he's injured, I damn well hope so, although I think he's shown in spurts that he's not, and is just playing without confidence).

What happened to everyone and the style of hockey that we loved, Duby, Prust, Fedo, Arty, Callahan, out there knocking faces, and making it damn near impossible for teams like the Caps and Pittsburgh to score goals. We were a ****ing menace.

If you want to move towards a more offensive style of system, be my guest, I think it's a pipe dream, and I'm still more just mad at the fact that we ever traded those players away for Nash. If anything, we should've just traded Gaborik away for the players we got for him this season. Picking up another defenseman like Moore, adding what was honestly missing the most from last years team is someone like Brassard, and some MORE grit with Dorsett, and just getting rid of Gaborik. That's what should have happened, forget about Nash...People should honestly be furious at the Nash trade, given how well everyone played last year. And if you want to move towards a more offensive system, then for ****s sake, don't trade a player like Gaborik away....

Don't panic, get Staal back healthy, hope Nash doesn't play like a ****ing ***** and stays healthy, maybe get Clowe back for the right price, and just get the guy a different damn power play coach next season!!!

Congratulations on one of the best and most honest posts regarding the Rangers that I've seen on these boards in a very long time. The fans around here who think a new coach installing a more uptempo style will win here are nuts. The roster as currently constructed is very flawed. Not enough size, speed, grit, aggressiveness and talent. Same goes for their overrated defense which never hits nor takes any forwards off the puck.

Nice job of telling it like it really is!

 

[Richter Scale]

This is a CAP league. You're not going to get a much better roster than what you currently have.

Fact is, talent wise, New York is easily in the top 10.

Absolving the coaching staff and laying all blame on the players is idiotic.

And this is the kind of **** Torts haters say that absolutely drives me up the wall. Do you guys actually think about the absolute horse **** you spew? Seriously. Come on.

I want them to win it all too; I'm not saying a fan should be ecstatic with any season that finishes with anything less than a cup. But can we have realistic expectations? Or, you know, at least be consistent with what we say and what is actually happening?

Ok. "Roster is now top 10 talent wise."

Last year, they make the ECF. The conference finals means there were 4 teams left.

This year? They're in the second round. There are 8 teams left.

Sure sounds like they're living up to the "top 10" roster level.


But keep moving those goal posts when the reality doesn't fit what you're sellin'.

First it was "OMG TORTS U SUK, TEAM WONT EVEN MAKE PLAYOFFS WITH TWO ELITE SCORERS." Then the team makes playoffs, so the tune gets changed to: "OMG TORTS ONLY COACHES FIRST ROUND EXITS, HE SO BAD. LAST YEAR WAS AN ABERRATION. JUST AWFUL." Team makes it out of the first round and has now been in the ECF and the second round in consecutive years (first time that has happened in over 15 years). The *****ing now reverts to: "OH **** U TORTS. CAPS ARE JUST AWFUL ANYWAY, ONLY REASON THIS TEAM MADE IT OUT. U STILL SUX. FIRED!"

---

There are some significant problems with Torts as coach (#1 being the PP). But he's a hell of a lot better than most of the other options out there right now (at least the ones I'm aware of), and brings a lot of good despite the things he does poorly. I'm not in the camp that thinks this roster is so bad that the team needs to be blown up - but the roster really isn't where it needs to be (especially with Staal and Clowe out). Some tweaking, however, and I think that it could get there.

Alain Vigneault would be awful. No thanks.

 

[Drewbackatu*]

And this is the kind of **** Torts haters say that absolutely drives me up the wall. Do you guys actually think about the absolute horse **** you spew? Seriously. Come on.

I want them to win it all too; I'm not saying a fan should be ecstatic with any season that finishes with anything less than a cup. But can we have realistic expectations? Or, you know, at least be consistent with what we say and what is actually happening?

Ok. "Roster is now top 10 talent wise."

Last year, they make the ECF. The conference finals means there were 4 teams left.

This year? They're in the second round. There are 8 teams left.

Sure sounds like they're living up to the "top 10" roster level.


But keep moving those goal posts when the reality doesn't fit what you're sellin'.

First it was "OMG TORTS U SUK, TEAM WONT EVEN MAKE PLAYOFFS WITH TWO ELITE SCORERS." Then the team makes playoffs, so the tune gets changed to: "OMG TORTS ONLY COACHES FIRST ROUND EXITS, HE SO BAD. LAST YEAR WAS AN ABERRATION. JUST AWFUL." Team makes it out of the first round and has now been in the ECF and the second round in consecutive years (first time that has happened in over 15 years). The *****ing now reverts to: "OH **** U TORTS. CAPS ARE JUST AWFUL ANYWAY, ONLY REASON THIS TEAM MADE IT OUT. U STILL SUX. FIRED!"

---

There are some significant problems with Torts as coach (#1 being the PP). But he's a hell of a lot better than most of the other options out there right now (at least the ones I'm aware of), and brings a lot of good despite the things he does poorly. I'm not in the camp that thinks this roster is so bad that the team needs to be blown up - but the roster really isn't where it needs to be (especially with Staal and Clowe out). Some tweaking, however, and I think that it could get there.

Alain Vigneault would be awful. No thanks.

You tell them! It seems that a lot of the fans around here don't want to remember all the lousy coaches we had here before Tortorella was hired.

 

[Kane One]

I've honestly always liked Vigneault. I have no idea what happened to him the past year or so, but he's been fine before that. Every coach eventually has their downfall with a team, so I'm not going to hold it against him. Count me in on Vigneault.

 

[vancityluongo]

I've honestly always liked Vigneault. I have no idea what happened to him the past year or so, but he's been fine before that. Every coach eventually has their downfall with a team, so I'm not going to hold it against him. Count me in on Vigneault.

Nothing happened to Vigneault. He's still a great coach, probably top-5 in the league. The Canucks simply became a stagnant team with no identity, and someone had to go for the sake of change.

This claim has zero to little basis, but I've been saying all over that I think Vigneault will be the next coach of the New York Rangers, and that you guys will win the cup with him behind the bench.

 

[aufheben]

Nothing happened to Vigneault. He's still a great coach, probably top-5 in the league. The Canucks simply became a stagnant team with no identity, and someone had to go for the sake of change.

This claim has zero to little basis, but I've been saying all over that I think Vigneault will be the next coach of the New York Rangers, and that you guys will win the cup with him behind the bench.

Is this the feeling of the majority of Canucks fans?

 

[MustarddTiger]

People think this team is going to respond to a ****ing Canadian coach that has failed with the Canucks, after parting ways with Torts? Facepalm city.

 

[BBKers]

Congratulations on one of the best and most honest posts regarding the Rangers that I've seen on these boards in a very long time. The fans around here who think a new coach installing a more uptempo style will win here are nuts. The roster as currently constructed is very flawed. Not enough size, speed, grit, aggressiveness and talent. Same goes for their overrated defense which never hits nor takes any forwards off the puck.

Nice job of telling it like it really is!

Your analysis is spot on as always.
Coach is not the problem
Nor is the system
Players are simply not good enough
More JAM
Less Euros, passers, danglers
Block more shots BB as a first Line center (got size)
No speed (Hagelin, Kreider, Moore, McD, Cally...)
No size (Boyle, Pyatt, Clowe, Nash, Kreider)
No agressiveness
No talent

You got it down 100% there
You into wrestling much too?
GI Joe dolls will do it

 

[MustarddTiger]

You analysis is spot on as always.
Coach is not e problem
Nor is the system
Players are not good enough
More JAM
Less skill
Block more shotsBoyle as a first Line center (got size)
No speed (Hagelin, Kreider, Moore, McD, Cally...)
No size (Boyle, Pyatt, Clowe, Nash, Kreider)
No agressiveness
No talent

You got it down 100% there
You into wrestling too?

I know you're from Sweeden, and you're sour that Hank hasn't won a cup yet, I am too, but you're blaming it on Torts, let me ask you your solution? Is it as simple as, let's hire a new coach that will let us play offensive hockey?

 

[BBKers]

Torts was a Jack Adams award finalist last year. Just thought people needed to be reminded of that.

And Barack Obama won a Nobel Peace Prize.
And both the Kings and Devils have won SCs the same year they fired their coaches
Whoopy do da
Means nothing
Btw did he win that Adams you speak so highly of?
Think he was close to a nominee this year?
Or any other year as NYR coach?

 

[BBKers]

I know you're from Sweeden, and you're sour that Hank hasn't won a cup yet, I am too, but you're blaming it on Torts, let me ask you your solution? Is it as simple as, let's hire a new coach that will let us play offensive hockey?

Yes
But it will not happen

 

[MustarddTiger]

Yes
But it will not happen

You're doing very little here to actually back up how you and why you think this will magically happen if we get a different coach, but alright.

 

[MustarddTiger]

I can't wait to hear what you guys would be saying next year, if Torts gets fired and Nash plays like **** again.

 

[aufheben]

I can't wait to hear what you guys would be saying next year, if Torts gets fired and Nash plays like **** again.

If this team got an offense oriented coach, everyone would be complaining about the defense.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

They can't all be Tom Landry.

 

[JohnC]

Guys, I'm writing my 94 page hand-written application for the coaching gig (one more than Trottier, thus making me better) to Sather

Would you guys be gents, show some support and help me out?!

 

[InHenrikWeTrust]

As a die hard torts hater, it has gone beyond his grind-jam-grind defense first system. He also lacks the ability to adjust mid game to counter the opponents attack system as we have seen all too well in the Boston series . Good coaches adjust and tinker to cover obvious exposures in defense, whether its effective or not is irrelevant because Torts doesn't even try. The same can be said about our offense. Opposing coaches know what's coming and respond accordingly.

Another issue is the constant line juggling. How can chemistry be developed if we don't allow players the time to adapt to their linemates instincts?

And last put not least the incompetent PP. not enough can be said but enough has been said.