I could pick apart the warts of most of your glowing player reviews, but this one takes the cake. 18 teams passed on him 4 years ago. He had just a brutal season where he looked disengaged for most of it. Most teams have middling mid-late first round draft picks trying to find their footing in the NHL.
All Encompassing Coaching and Glen Cigar Thread Part V
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I could pick apart the warts of most of your glowing player reviews, but this one takes the cake. 18 teams passed on him 4 years ago. He had just a brutal season where he looked disengaged for most of it. Most teams have middling mid-late first round draft picks trying to find their footing in the NHL.
truebluegoalie
Registered User
I simply said I thought it was interesting that at the beginning of the season many people, myself included, thought that the shortened season would benefit this team because of the style Tortorella likes to implement. They started slumping a bit in january last year, people thought they were run down, and that would be right around the time that the playoffs would start this year so many thought they would be just hitting their stride with a shortened season. Now it turns out that not having a training camp has hurt the team and that is being used as an excuse. In fact I think it is one of the reasons that Tortorella will still be here to start next season.
I am not really sure where the hostility came from or why you feel the need to use it. I didn't imply that Richards' decline was due to Tortorella, and I don't believe I have ever blamed him for the bad play of a player. I may have accused him of misusing players in the past but at the same time I give him credit where it is due, like when he finally put Moore on the PP in the caps series for half a second. To assume that I would respond with blaming Tortorella for Richards' decline, is to use your word, ignorant.
Personally I don't think Richards was expecting the lockout to end this year and he wasn't prepared mentally or physically to play. I think next year (if he gets the chance) he will be better. But that is OT for this thread.
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
- Jun 10, 2011
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Four years ago is ancient history. Chances are, if the Rangers make a trade this summer, Krieder will still be one of the pieces GMs will ask for in return. He is still highly regarded, around the league.
Tell me what Torts has done to "coach" this team to anything.
Tell me why any other coach couldn't ride the best goalie in the world and achieve the same results?
I'll coach the Rangers, ready?
Ok guys, go block every shot you can on D. Then, when you have the puck, just chuck it into the zone and run after it.
On the PP, just try....I don't know....just score.
In goal, just be the best goalie in the world.
Stepan and Brassard as a legitimate 1/2 center punch? Hagelin and Zuccarello as top 6 forwards? A revolving door that will likely revolve even more in the bottom 6 forwards? No PP QB to speak of, and an overall lack of offensive punch from the blueline?
These types of personnel reaches might be fine if your goal is to make the playoffs every season, but they are severe holes if you're looking for a true championship contender.
I am in full agreement with you that the blame can be spread around between players, coaches, and management.
...but management and players are linked, and in my opinion, they are a bigger problem than the coach. You'll have the same problem of players trying to fill roles that are over their head no matter who the coach is.
I don't understand why Zucc is so commonly mocked as a top 6 guy. He might have been our 2nd best forward these playoffs. He has some of the best vision and passing skills on the team. Why is it so laughable to have him in the top 6? Until this season, the Pens wingers left something to be desired. You'll rarely have a team that has all 1st line players on the first line, 2nd on the 2nd line, and 3rd on the 3rd. We live in a Cap world. Hags, is not a liability in the top 6, hell he's arguably an asset. Ditto Zucc.
nyranger61494
YNWA
His contract expires on June 30th.
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/22/what-does-the-future-hold-for-dave-tippett/
Zuccarello and Hagelin are both fun to watch. I just dont think they produce enough to be consistent top 6 players over the long haul of a season.
Off Sides
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- Sep 8, 2008
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There is no other way to get to true championship contender status other than through the draft and development process.
Since the Rangers always augmented their team with mediocre UFAs over the years, just to attempt to make the playoffs, they were rarely in position to draft these championship caliber players and when they were, they drafted goalies or reached on low skill big players.
At this point I don't see what the problem is if they just go with what they have as no matter what they do, they are not going to be able to trade for or draft the players people seem to be asking for.
Might as well try to develop Kreider, Miller and the others. Might as well roll with Brassard, Stepan and Hagelin.
Short of trading them all for a real and true rebuild from the ground up I don't see any other option and I highly doubt management would even consider going that route. The fans do not demand it with their wallets.
It is painful to waste Lundqvist in the process if that comes to pass, but that ball was sent rolling years ago when they decided to sign a bunch of UFAs instead of just really rebuilding when the Jagr era was ending.
People seem to be looking at this from the perspective that winning the cup is the Rangers priority, to me it seems more likely after watching their maneuvers over the years that their #1 priority was to market the team with more well known name players. That way regardless of how the team performed, it raised the demand for tickets. They sell hope with name players and every year the fans buy into it. If they win, great it's a bonus, if they lose they just add a name player or two and start the process over again.
Since the Rangers always augmented their team with mediocre UFAs over the years, just to attempt to make the playoffs, they were rarely in position to draft these championship caliber players and when they were, they drafted goalies or reached on low skill big players.
At this point I don't see what the problem is if they just go with what they have as no matter what they do, they are not going to be able to trade for or draft the players people seem to be asking for.
Might as well try to develop Kreider, Miller and the others. Might as well roll with Brassard, Stepan and Hagelin.
Short of trading them all for a real and true rebuild from the ground up I don't see any other option and I highly doubt management would even consider going that route. The fans do not demand it with their wallets.
It is painful to waste Lundqvist in the process if that comes to pass, but that ball was sent rolling years ago when they decided to sign a bunch of UFAs instead of just really rebuilding when the Jagr era was ending.
People seem to be looking at this from the perspective that winning the cup is the Rangers priority, to me it seems more likely after watching their maneuvers over the years that their #1 priority was to market the team with more well known name players. That way regardless of how the team performed, it raised the demand for tickets. They sell hope with name players and every year the fans buy into it. If they win, great it's a bonus, if they lose they just add a name player or two and start the process over again.
NYR Viper
Registered User
Ideally he would be an offensive threat that compliments a couple of 3rd liners. Would be nice to have him there and in case of injury he can play top 6 if needed.
He plays well when he has space and time to create. Give him guys who thrive without the puck and he will do well. He played well with Boyle for that very reason.
NikC
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- Oct 7, 2008
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Kel Varnsen
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Hags, sure, but Zucc has really not played enough in the NHL to pass judgement on yet and look how much he's improved since last year (or was it 2 years ago?). It's not out of the realm of possibility that he'll continue to improve.
It's a nice theory that was really popular during the dark years but how many successful teams DON'T have name players? Washed up players is one thing, but name players is another. All superstars are name players. Bergeron may not be a big name player, but that's because the NHL doesn't market great 2 way play. Either way, every contender other than Boston has name players. Name players are not the problem. Washed up name players like Richards are.
Off Sides
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How did those teams get their star players? Other than Chara and Hossa, it tough to find any star players that have come from the UFA route.
Star players are not the problem, signing past their prime star players is.
Other than Gaborik, I don't see any evidence the Rangers have ever signed a non near washed up star player.
Regardless my point was, no real cup contending team in the NHL has gone the route the Rangers have in trying to sign their way to a championship. With that being the case, unless the Rangers are truly trying to buck that trend, they must be signing these near washed up star players for another reason. To appease the fans who think signing these players is going to lead to true contention.
Kel Varnsen
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Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
Kel Varnsen
Below: Nash's Heart
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Kel Varnsen
Below: Nash's Heart
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There he goes again. The king of hindsight and spin control for NYR management and coaches.
Kel, does Tortorella get any blame for pushing hard to sign Richards in the first place?
Kel Varnsen
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The signing has been good so far. I thought we went over this before, but basically the signing has brought us some good (a ton last year, he was still third on the team in pts this year) and hasn't cost us anything besides money, so I'm good with it.
I can't even bring myself to blame Sather on that one. It was a positional need with a relatively friendly cap hit. Shame Richards aged 50 years in a single offseason.
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