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All Encompassing Coaching and Glen Cigar Thread Part V

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Kel Varnsen said:
The signing has been good so far. I thought we went over this before, but basically the signing has brought us some good (a ton last year, he was still third on the team in pts this year) and hasn't cost us anything besides money, so I'm good with it.
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Richards was signed less than 2 years ago to be the #1 center on a championship contending team.

Tonight, less than 2 years into a 9 year deal, he'll be a healthy scratch in a playoff elimination game.

"The signing has been good so far." .....you're insane.
 
Why is it BS. Torts only dropped Richards to the 4th line after game 5 when the Rangers faced elimination to the Caps in game 6 and 7.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Richards was signed less than 2 years ago to be the #1 center on a championship contending team.

Tonight, less than 2 years into a 9 year deal, he'll be a healthy scratch in a playoff elimination game.

"The signing has been good so far." .....you're insane.
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You're making a categorical mistake. You're conflating living up to contractual expectations with whether it was good to give the contract out. It's very possible to not live up to a contract, but from a fan/GM perspective for it to still have been worth it to give the guy the contract.
 
Which one of the Vancouver coaches ran that team's powerplay? Except for this season, it's consistently hovered around 20%. Granted, the Sedins are a big part of that, but whoever it was could be an interesting hire as an assistant.

I was sitting here the other day reading about Nashville hiring Phil Housley and wondering why we can't do something like that.
 
Kel Varnsen said:
You're making a categorical mistake. You're conflating living up to contractual expectations with whether it was good to give the contract out. It's very possible to not live up to a contract, but from a fan/GM perspective for it to still have been worth it to give the guy the contract.
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"worth it" in the short run. Thank god there's a buyout, at the end of 9 years would you still thought the contract was "worth it"?
 
I dont like Torts at all. When he is fired, I'm going to enjoy rooting against him.

But his goalie and GM helped him earn another shot. We'll see what he does with it.

Full camp and a full season, I see the Rangers competing again, but painfully inconsistent while doing so
 
Bob Richards said:
I can't even bring myself to blame Sather on that one. It was a positional need with a relatively friendly cap hit. Shame Richards aged 50 years in a single offseason.
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If he didn't F up the previous 11 years before that we wouldn't need a Brad Richards, but that's just, history and stuff....

Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Richards was signed less than 2 years ago to be the #1 center on a championship contending team.

Tonight, less than 2 years into a 9 year deal, he'll be a healthy scratch in a playoff elimination game.

"The signing has been good so far." .....you're insane.
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Insanity like doing something over and over and getting the same results kind of insanity.
 
Off Sides said:
How did those teams get their star players? Other than Chara and Hossa, it tough to find any star players that have come from the UFA route.

Star players are not the problem, signing past their prime star players is.

Other than Gaborik, I don't see any evidence the Rangers have ever signed a non near washed up star player.

Regardless my point was, no real cup contending team in the NHL has gone the route the Rangers have in trying to sign their way to a championship. With that being the case, unless the Rangers are truly trying to buck that trend, they must be signing these near washed up star players for another reason. To appease the fans who think signing these players is going to lead to true contention.
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this is a tired, old caricature of the 98'-04' NYR. Give it a rest. I'm not saying the FA signings Sather made were all well thought out, but they were all for players reasonably young and in the prime of their careers.

Rick Nash is not a star player? The Rangers aren't "signing their way to a championship" Nearly every player besides Richards was obtained through trade or our own system. EVERY team in the league does this.

Teams would kill to have a goalie like ours to build in front of and you want to 'sell it all" and what?
Only a handful of teams have been successful going the route of a full blown rebuild. Are you advocating that the Rangers trade off Hank, Nash, McDonaugh, Stepan, Krieder, Staal, etc. in the hopes of drafting star players at these same positions? Does that make sense?
 
Kel Varnsen said:
You're making a categorical mistake. You're conflating living up to contractual expectations with whether it was good to give the contract out. It's very possible to not live up to a contract, but from a fan/GM perspective for it to still have been worth it to give the guy the contract.
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Well, congratulations. I always knew you were some sort of shill for the organization, but now you've proved your shameless enough to spin just about anything into the Rangers favor.
 
Bluenote13 said:
If he didn't F up the previous 11 years before that we wouldn't need a Brad Richards, but that's just, history and stuff....
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In fairness, I did say that with the cushion of the amnesty. Might be a different tune if we didn't have one.
 
NikC said:
this is a tired, old caricature of the 98'-04' NYR. Give it a rest. I'm not saying the FA signings Sather made were all well thought out, but they were all for players reasonably young and in the prime of their careers.

Rick Nash is not a star player? The Rangers aren't "signing their way to a championship" Nearly every player besides Richards was obtained through trade or our own system. EVERY team in the league does this.

Teams would kill to have a goalie like ours to build in front of and you want to 'sell it all" and what?
Only a handful of teams have been successful going the route of a full blown rebuild. Are you advocating that the Rangers trade off Hank, Nash, McDonaugh, Stepan, Krieder, Staal, etc. in the hopes of drafting star players at these same positions? Does that make sense?
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All the players you just named, where did they come from?

Other than Richards from trades or from the draft. Richards was signed for 60 million dollars, is that not trying to sign their way to a championship.
 
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Kel Varnsen said:
The signing has been good so far. I thought we went over this before, but basically the signing has brought us some good (a ton last year, he was still third on the team in pts this year) and hasn't cost us anything besides money, so I'm good with it.
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Of course you are... :propeller
 
KreiMeARiver said:
Tell me what Torts has done to "coach" this team to anything.

Tell me why any other coach couldn't ride the best goalie in the world and achieve the same results?

I'll coach the Rangers, ready?

Ok guys, go block every shot you can on D. Then, when you have the puck, just chuck it into the zone and run after it.

On the PP, just try....I don't know....just score.

In goal, just be the best goalie in the world.
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The idea that anyone here can come close to doing what any professional coach does is laughable. The idea that any professional coach's strategy can be broken down into one or two sentences is equally laughable.

Did you watch last year when the team bought into a system that made the best use of their defensive prowess and had the best NYR season in decades? Let me guess, they did that in spite of Torts, Hank did it himself etc. etc. etc. Well guess what? Hank has been carrying the team with incredible performances for years and they never came close to a season like that. The team was playing a system that fit the guys perfectly and they had a HUGE amount of success. If you honestly think that Torts had nothing to do with that, and that all of those players spontaneously discovered the smartest strategy for them to play and just happened to all start playing it on the same page all at once, I guess that's your right, but I'm going to call that silly. Torts coached the team very well last year, and considering all the crap that's gone on this year (two massive roster turnovers, no Staal, less than no Richards) I think the results are pretty good.

Boston is better than NYR, especially without Staal, Clowe or a servicable top 6 center in Richards' spot - a lot better. The better team tends to win a 7 game series. Losing to a better team in the second round doesn't mean its time for a huge change IMO. There are problems, most notably the inexcusably horrendous PP, but I think it'd be wiser to bring a PP guy in than to gut the coaching staff after two seasons with results that I consider to be impressive under the circumstances. If Torts absolutely refuses to get PP help to the point he'd prefer to be fired, or he starts the next season off and things look really bleak, fine, let's talk about firing him - but at this point I think it's a dumb idea.
 
Brian Boyle said:
At least the Richards signing made sense.

More than you can say for the Holik/Drury/Redden/Gomez signings.
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Oh hindsight, you crazy. In 5 years, will you look back on the Richards signing and wonder if it didn't make sense?

I'll give you Holik and Redden.

Drury and Gomez I won't give you though. I'll give you to them as a package deal as in maybe the Rangers really only needed one of them.

It was the '07 off-season, the Rangers were coming up on Jagr's last year. Sather thought he needed pieces to take the Rangers into the land of post-Jagr hockey. Callahan wasn't ready to lead the team, the vets were getting set to retire or leave, the Rangers would have had no direction after the 07-08 season if Drury and Gomez weren't here.

Hey, maybe that would have been better, but those signings made sense whether or not you want to believe it anymore.

This is just like people bashing the Jessiman pick. A monster of a winger puts up a 47 point freshman year (in 34 games) at Dartmouth. You know what this team could really use right now? A monster winger with scoring touch to compete with the Bruins. You know what Jessiman was projected to be? Was he a bit of a reach at 12? Sure. I think he was the 20th ranked skater in the final rankings.

It's amazing how high and mighty people act when the scenarios have all played themselves out.

I guess I'm probably the only one who hopes Richards can find his scoring touch again after leaving the Rangers this off-season.

Oh, and by the way, Gomez finished second on the team in scoring both seasons he was here, and he got us McDonagh.
 
i think tortorella is a good coach for a young team. but this team is getting to a point where maybe things need to change. it's a talented team. there are plenty of good hockey players there who, somehow, just can't score anymore. it's kind of ridiculous at this point. what changed my mind was how the team played when the new players arrived in late march and they started scoring. then after a while, things just settled back into the old 'systematic' way. i am of course, no expert. but it seems wrong, this crazy inability on offense. and it's so strange, because, then torts came back to the rangers, he originally was all about attack, attack, attack. but that seems to have faded. i don't think he coached this way with tampa. no?
 
What is the relationship like between Jeff Gordon and Tortorella? I recall seeing a moderator saying they had a conflict with each other or was it imaginary?
 
Meh, I've drilled this argument into submission.

Gomez/Drury were signed and put into the roles they shouldn't have been put into.

These players were never going to turn the 07-08 Rangers into contenders. You don't need hindsight. That could have been proven with some decent stats at the time.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Richards was signed less than 2 years ago to be the #1 center on a championship contending team.

Tonight, less than 2 years into a 9 year deal, he'll be a healthy scratch in a playoff elimination game.

"The signing has been good so far." .....you're insane.
Click to expand...

It was good for 1 year out of 9 (which is pathetic) :laugh:
 
jcman said:
Torts' handling of Richards this past season has been a textbook example of bad coaching IMO
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What? He's given him plenty of chances to succeed. The only thing I would have done different was scratch him earlier in the season to try to light a fire under his ass, but in hindsight it probably wouldn't have done anything.
 
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