oh yeah - comparing the kid to kreider? really? put laffy on the pk unit that guy will be praying to be put into an ambulance and hooked up to oxygen tanks.
Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière
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15 mins nothing to me on its own, as it's just a plucked number. I just had an issue with 40/81 being called 'rare' even 24/81 isn't rare
- Jul 16, 2005
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- Jul 16, 2005
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No, it’s not pointless. You can say Laf needs to be better himself, but the Rangers have let him down like they’ve let down all their top 10 forward picks. It’s a thing. It’s real. And it’s safe to say he’d look better somewhere else, even if he never lives up to 1OA status.
- Jul 16, 2005
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Lafreniere essentially had 0.5 ppg with no PP time and third line minutes at age 21, an age when Kreider wasn’t even in the NHL.
You can say Laf didn’t earn top line minutes and PP time and that may (or may not) be true but it’s definitely reasonable to expect his game to get better as he enters age 22, 23, 24 seasons, etc. When it does, he will be deserving of more minutes and an expanded role and those numbers will go up.
I think he is still a floor 55-60 point top 6 player someday, disappointing as that would be for what he was supposed to be, which was a nearly immediate 70-80-90 point impact player.
And if he’s a 55 point player at his peak then yea he’s basically Kreider, outside an outlier season or two.
I also think it’s still possible Lafreniere ends up a 70-80 point player. Though it does seem like the “just below MacKinnon and Matthews” comps are now far off. Those are like 50 goal or 100 point players and that seems unlikely now.
You can say Laf didn’t earn top line minutes and PP time and that may (or may not) be true but it’s definitely reasonable to expect his game to get better as he enters age 22, 23, 24 seasons, etc. When it does, he will be deserving of more minutes and an expanded role and those numbers will go up.
I think he is still a floor 55-60 point top 6 player someday, disappointing as that would be for what he was supposed to be, which was a nearly immediate 70-80-90 point impact player.
And if he’s a 55 point player at his peak then yea he’s basically Kreider, outside an outlier season or two.
I also think it’s still possible Lafreniere ends up a 70-80 point player. Though it does seem like the “just below MacKinnon and Matthews” comps are now far off. Those are like 50 goal or 100 point players and that seems unlikely now.
- Apr 16, 2012
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So the word “rare” is the issue here? Hahaha. And 15 mins was not a number I picked either. My point remains: he hasn’t gotten big minutes and responsibility consistently.
- Apr 16, 2012
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Hahahaha. I like players that hit. And IMO it’s an important part of the game, especially when you get to the post season. And since one point that someone made was that Kreider shows aggression, I felt it was relevant. But I think we both know I expect way more than that. If Laf was a finished player in his D+3 I wouldn’t bother engaging in these posts. But he’s not. And someone saying Lafrenierre is 1/1000 the player CK is and a journeyman is far more wild and outlandish than any point I’ve ever made on here.
If someone was on here guaranteeing superstardom I’d point out that was premature, just as I say when Laf is being called a bust/journeyman on here.
Kreider made his NHL debut in the 11-12 playoffs. He was just shy of being 21 years old. He scored 5 goals in 18 games...
Lafreniere in his playoff debut scored 2 goals in 20 games...he was half a year older than Kreider was at the same point...and plays in an era with about .5 more goals per game than the one Kreider stepped into.
The excuse making for this kid knows no bounds.
- Jul 16, 2005
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Facts are excuse making?
Yes we all remember Kreider’s magical run, but he was so good he got sent back to the AHL the following year and only played 23 games in the NHL as a 21 year old.
It’s not excuse making. Kreider couldn’t even stay up as a 21 year old. Let’s tap the brakes before saying ridiculous things like “Lafreniere won’t ever be half of what Kreider is.”
UnSandvich
Registered User
- Sep 7, 2017
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Out of curiosity, is there a reason you're leaving out the fact that Kreider had 2 assists in those 18 games, for 7 points in 18, vs. Laf's 7 assists & 9 points in 20?
Or is it just b/c that's inconvenient for the narrative you're trying to push?
You said multiple times that "Kreider wasn’t even in the NHL at Laf’s age"...so at best, you were misstating a fact. He was in the NHL, and he had already had playoff success. In my book, playoff contributions matter. We just fired a coach with two 100+ point seasons because of a disappointing playoff run...where Laf contributed 0 points.
Putting that aside...we're all still waiting for Laffy to show us that he's ready to be an important part of the team. He'll be 22 for the start of next year...the same age when Kreider established himself on the team.
If you are satisfied with 2 goals in 20 games....goo for you.
To put in some other perspective...we scored 43 goals in our 11-12 playoff run...
In the 21-22 run, we scored 61 goals.
Slice it any way your narrative desires...Kreider was a significantly more important factor to the 11-12 run than Laf was to last year's. That's the point that was made. But feel free to nut hug Laf if that make's you happy.
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UnSandvich
Registered User
- Sep 7, 2017
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So you don't actually have a reason, and you were just omitting it b/c it was inconvenient for your narrative. Cool, good to know
4 of Laf's 7 assists were secondary. If you think those are equal value to goals...then we differ.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
Came here to mention this… he’s on his 3rd coach… what are the excuses going to be this time? At some point it’s on the player… full stop.
Beniers10 Hughes86
Release the Kraken!
I just realize Lafreniere translate to english is Lafront of the net, the guy just love scoring goals from there.
- Jul 16, 2005
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Kreider played 23 games in the NHL regular season before age 22. That doesn’t really count for what we are talking about and that should have been pretty clear. In those 23 games he scored 0.13 ppg.
Laf has played, to the same age, 216 regular season games and has scored 0.42 ppg. It’s patently absurd to conclude definitively that Laf will “not equal half Kreider’s career” because if anything the stats say pretty much the inverse conclusion so far.
Then again, as I pointed out, this fan base has a delusional romanticism regarding Kreider in every analysis.
In any case, of course Kreider’s handful of points at age 20 in an abbreviated playoff run matters and of course Lafreniere’s recent goose egg matters but you can’t project careers off either of those ridiculously small sample sizes. The far better thing to look at is the fact that, undeniably, Lafreniere is way, way ahead of where Kreider was at age 21.
It doesn’t end the story but it will be pretty surprising if Lafreniere doesn’t end up better than the vast majority of Kreider’s career in the 50 point range.
Though of course, just being better than age 28 Kreider would be tremendously disappointing for a 1OA because through that age Kreider himself was relatively disappointing as what, a 19OA pick.
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- Jul 16, 2005
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You are moving the goal posts, or perhaps interjecting into a discussion that is different than what you are trying to say.
It’s not nut hugging or excuse making to point out that Lafreniere is simply better at age 21 than Kreider was at that age.
It’s just plain stupid to conclude that Lafreniere won’t equal “half” of Kreider’s career, as someone tried to argue, based on all available data.
Some emotional people are wrongfully conflating their disappointment with Laf as a 1OA with their homerism for Kreider and getting those feelings confused with the actual evidence.
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
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Thats where he should be then, if they are complaining he isn't in good enough shape then skate it out of him early.
NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
- Sep 29, 2011
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ReddestRum
Sad even when winning
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Shesterkybomb
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smoneil
Registered User
Eventual disappointment in a year or two when they turn into something with another team and we can't even remember what we got for them. Then we can wait another 50+ years to get another top 5 draft pick. To be fair, a lot of this team's fans seem to thrive on such misery, so maybe that counts as a good return?
Barnaby
Registered User
Barnaby
Registered User
Idk what Lafreniere’s career will become, but CK’s 11-12 playoff run blew the doors off of Lafreniere’s two playoffs. That’s straight fact - not an opinion. He was a weapon. There’s a reason CBJ were dying to get him for Nash. CK flashed. Laf hasn’t yet, but I sure hope he does.
You can make excuses for Laf all you want. Ice time, linemates, 2 head coaches, skills coach… Bottom line is the early returns are not promising, and just constant excuses get irritating after awhile… that’s not saying Lafreniere can’t flip the script as early as next year, but let’s call a spade a spade. The guy was closer to an AHL stint than PP1.
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Barnaby
Registered User
Hits are a pretty meaningless stat and not all hits are created equal. I say this acknowledging CK’s physical game can be quite inconsistent at times, but still flashes a lot more than Lafreniere. I also have yet to see anything like CK running over Carey Price from AF.
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