Alexander Burmistrov "will almost certainly return to NHL"

[Sweech]

Questioning Noel from afar about why Jokinen was playing ahead of him for one thing.

Jokinen scored 14 points in 45 games. We were all questioning it. It doesn't mean he was wrong in questioning it or wrong to think he should have played over Jokinen.

 

[Jet]

Questioning Noel from afar about why Jokinen was playing ahead of him for one thing. Don't agree about middle six but probably easily a bottom six forward on the Jets, who knows though, two years out of the NHL isn't exactly a positive.

Link please.

From what I know of this "HF Jets fact" it was second hand, translated conjecture.

Would LOVE to see a direct quote from Alex saying this.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

I did not write Burmi & Couturier > Scheifele.
I wrote about their effects on team results for their 20 year old seasons.

You wrote about their 20 year old seasons in November of Scheiefele's 20 year old season. That was my point.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Didn't scheifele go on a hot streak last year after a 28 game cold spell? Do we rate him on the same scale?

Yes, he did. Although, I'm not the one suggesting we should discount anyone's actual experience. I believe Garret was suggesting that regarding Burmistrovs AHL production.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

His production made him the tied 21st best scorer in the KHL, the best point scorer on his own team. Those are the direct related facts to your statement. In a perfect mirrored reflection Blake Wheeler was the 21st best scorer in the NHL and the best scorer in our team. I guess your standards should say that, "Wheeler really hasn't produced all that well in the NHL." right? Unless I'm mistaken and you have some other standard to which you judge a player's production.

Correct, you are mistaken and I do have another standard. Andrew Gordon, Chris Mueller, Alex khokhlachev, Brett Connolly. These are the guys that were tied for 21st in scoring in the AHL last year. In a perfect mirrored reflection, they were the 21st best scorers in the AHL. Were they productive? Sure. Does their production even remotely suggest that they can produce in the NHL? No. That is the standard. Of course, we can't even say that Burmistrov is as productive as Andrew Gordon, can we? We don't need complex algorithms to determine the equivalent point totals that Burmistrov might have put up in the AHL or NHL, because we know them and they aren't at all productive.

It's pretty hard to plead ignorance after making a statement like that and then to disregard Burmistrov leading his playoff team in points your counter argument is Boyd and Dawes are outproducing him. Which means what exactly? Seeing as you you have plead ignorance to knowing anything about the KHL it seems strange you would want to throw stats around as if that's a basis for an argument. Can you use KHL scoring stats as a linear basis to how it relates to NHL scoring? Did Boyd or Dawes lead their team in scoring? No? Would that suggest that their points may be influenced by playing with other high point scorers? I guess I shouldn't even be asking you these questions since you don't know anything about the KHL.

It is interesting though that someone who claims to have no knowledge of a subject can make such great claims about it.

You don't think its fair to compare a group of former NHL players that are playing in the exact same league? Don't we do this every day, all day about players in the NHL? Somehow, we need all the coaches usage charts and quality of teammates and competition before the comparison is valid? Get real. I seriously doubt you'd be demanding an encyclopedic knowledge of the KHL if Burmistrov won the scoring title by 50 points last year.

You also don't think its relevant that his production has plummeted in the last half of the season and the first quarter of this season? As self-appointed KHL expert, can you tell us what's wrong? Is he stuck behind some veteran and not getting PP time? Have goalies figured out that he has a ****** wrist shot and now they are used to the change up speed? [mod]

 

[garret9]

You wrote about their 20 year old seasons in November of Scheiefele's 20 year old season. That was my point.

Because it was asked.

I also said things could change and if people wanted and asked I would re-evaluate things at the end of the season.

No one did, so I didn't.

Most of what I write is because someone requested it.

 

[garret9]

It's actually easier to be 21st in the AHL than it is to be 21st in the KHL...

KHL is a tougher league to score in than the AHL, relatively speaking.

Just like 21st in the NHL is harder than all.


There's also something to be said about being a high end scorer in either the AHL or KHL and being a under 25 year old and being a high end scorer in either league and being close to 30. Since most 30 year olds are on a down trend for scoring and most 22-24 are on an up trend.

 

[Sweech]

Correct, you are mistaken and I do have another standard. Andrew Gordon, Chris Mueller, Alex khokhlachev, Brett Connolly. These are the guys that were tied for 21st in scoring in the AHL last year. In a perfect mirrored reflection, they were the 21st best scorers in the AHL. Were they productive? Sure. Does their production even remotely suggest that they can produce in the NHL? No. That is the standard. Of course, we can't even say that Burmistrov is as productive as Andrew Gordon, can we? We don't need complex algorithms to determine the equivalent point totals that Burmistrov might have put up in the AHL or NHL, because we know them and they aren't at all productive.

You're trying to move the goalposts, you never said what relevance KHL scoring had to the NHL. You said, "Burmistrov really hasn't produced all that well in the KHL." That's a very black and white statement that only regards the KHL and makes zero mention of the NHL. I would say Burmistrov has produced well in the KHL because by my standards being the best scorer on your team and the 21st best scorer in the league is producing well in said league. You apparently think differently.

I would also say Gordon, Mueller, Khokhlachev, and Connolly produced well in the AHL.

Just as I would say Blake Wheeler has produced well in the NHL.

Unless you'd like to change your statement to something different or admit Burmistrov has produced well in the KHL?

 

[Blue Shakehead]

You're trying to move the goalposts, you never said what relevance KHL scoring had to the NHL. You said, "Burmistrov really hasn't produced all that well in the KHL." That's a very black and white statement that only regards the KHL and makes zero mention of the NHL. I would say Burmistrov has produced well in the KHL because by my standards being the best scorer on your team and the 21st best scorer in the league is producing well in said league. You apparently think differently.

I would also say Gordon, Mueller, Khokhlachev, and Connolly produced well in the AHL.

Just as I would say Blake Wheeler has produced well in the NHL.

Unless you'd like to change your statement to something different or admit Burmistrov has produced well in the KHL?

If you really want to use my quotes against me to box me into some black and white statement of facts, you might try using the whole quote, which was "I think the argument actually goes "Burmistrov really hasn't produced all that well in the KHL". My only regret is not italicizing the word "that", for emphasis. If you read about 10 posts before that, you'll see that my line was quite obviously a reference to the other posters noting Burmistrov's poor production this year in the KHL.

As you've seen, I've been continually comparing and contrasting Burmistrov's production with Nigel Dawes, Dustin Boyd, and Brandon Bochenski - and the reason I keep referencing these players is not to say " hey look, Burmi can't produce and neither can these three!!!" I've been using them as examples of why we should take Burmistrov's production with a grain of salt. Which leads me to my next point...

For someone who prefers a strict judicial constructionist interpretation of language around here and is quick to accuse one of moving the goalposts, you oddly continue to refuse to answer direct questions posed to you about Burmistrov's second half-drop in production and his slow start, or why we can't compare his production to other NHL players currently playing in the KHL? Clearly, a scholar of the KHL would be able to answer those? those goalposts are so wide, even Burmi could score on them. Well, maybe they aren't that wide.

 

[garret9]

The flaw in the argument is that scoring at the same level of those guys is poor scoring.

Nigel Dawes scored 1.6 points per 60 5v5 minutes.
Dustin Boyd scored 1.5 points per 60 5v5 minutes.
Brandon Bochenski scored points 1.4 per 60 5v5 minutes.

For the Jets, that's same or more than anyone not named Ladd, Little, Wheeler, and Kane, plus one season of Frolik over the past 3 years. And Little's 1.8 is not that far off. (Perreault will likely be above as well)
1.7 points per 60 is just over the median for second line players.

Those guys are not out of the NHL due to not being able to score. They are not elite scorers, but they did perform. They are not bad players to score similarly to. In fact, they probably should be genuine NHL players. There is a gap in that logic.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Yeah man totally. Kane also hates playing here too and Blake Wheeler won't sign a contract with us either.

Do you usually get your news from tabloids or is it only sports that you do that with?

What are you even talking about?

Was Burmi so happy with his role with our team, that he decided to take a couple of years off, and go home to tell his family?

He left because he was not happy with his role, which I read in the common sense Journal

And citing Kane does little for your cause.

 

[Jet]

Questioning Noel from afar about why Jokinen was playing ahead of him for one thing. Don't agree about middle six but probably easily a bottom six forward on the Jets, who knows though, two years out of the NHL isn't exactly a positive.

STILL waiting for a link to a factual, first hand interview where Burmistrov said this. I'm growing tired of people presenting stuff like this as fact.

Like or hate a player but lets use facts to build our arguments, or in the absence of such, make sure we illustrate that what we are saying is either opinion, speculation, or rumor.

 

[boanst]

What are you even talking about?

Was Burmi so happy with his role with our team, that he decided to take a couple of years off, and go home to tell his family?

He left because he was not happy with his role, which I read in the common sense Journal

And citing Kane does little for your cause.

If he wasnt happy with his role, then why would he ever be open to coming back because he wont get a better role than what he had, at least to start off? For less money to boot.

I think he just didnt like Noel.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

If he wasnt happy with his role, then why would he ever be open to coming back because he wont get a better role than what he had, at least to start off? For less money to boot.

I think he just didnt like Noel.

You are absolutely correct. He didn't like the role, which was dictated to him by the coach at the time, which is why he didn't like Noel.

Different coach, same message (most likely if and when he rejoins the club), and depending on Burmi's mindset and professionalism, disgruntled or engaged employee?

I would love it if he came back with the mindset he will do whatever is asked of him, and he will buy into what the coaches ask of him. He could be a shut down checker, that can produce offense if needed. He has the skills and ability to be amazing at that type of job.

I am not saying Burmi was a cancer, or dressing room problem. I am saying he was not happy with his role, and it showed with his usage.

 

[fmrdh]

I think he would perform well under Paul Maurice who has experience in Russia and more competition here would help things.

Anyone here go to meet Burmistrov at Nott autocorp a few years ago? I was there and waited 3 hours in line and still didn't get to meet him.

 

[boanst]

You are absolutely correct. He didn't like the role, which was dictated to him by the coach at the time, which is why he didn't like Noel.

Different coach, same message (most likely if and when he rejoins the club), and depending on Burmi's mindset and professionalism, disgruntled or engaged employee?

I would love it if he came back with the mindset he will do whatever is asked of him, and he will buy into what the coaches ask of him. He could be a shut down checker, that can produce offense if needed. He has the skills and ability to be amazing at that type of job.

I am not saying Burmi was a cancer, or dressing room problem. I am saying he was not happy with his role, and it showed with his usage.

Again, if the reason for him leaving was specifically because he didnt like his role, why would he be open to come back when a 3rd or 4th line role is the best he is going to get?

He has a better role now, for way more money, surrounded by people that speak the only language he knows well

Theres something missing here that him simply not liking the role doesnt explain.

 

[jetkarma*]

IMO it is more than time for everyone to understand Burmistrov at best is a support player , a secondary piece that is not that likely to be a Jet again and certainly not a significant one.

If we get something for him then it is more than we've had for a couple of years , and yes let's hope he trends differently than he has to improve his asset value , but don't expect it or count on a lot in return if he is traded.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

I think he would perform well under Paul Maurice who has experience in Russia and more competition here would help things.

Anyone here go to meet Burmistrov at Nott autocorp a few years ago? I was there and waited 3 hours in line and still didn't get to meet him.

Was the line pointing east-west or north-south? That might have been the problem.

 

[sipowicz]

IMO it is more than time for everyone to understand Burmistrov at best is a support player , a secondary piece that is not that likely to be a Jet again and certainly not a significant one.

If we get something for him then it is more than we've had for a couple of years , and yes let's hope he trends differently than he has to improve his asset value , but don't expect it or count on a lot in return if he is traded.

I'm thinking the Jets would be happy with a 2nd round pick for Burmi at this point.

 

[sully1410]

I guess everyone forgot what our cap situation was last season? All you have to do is read the signs to see that we didn't have the room to sign the dude, so Burmi went back to Russia instead of playing in the AHL. I can't blame him, he made some real money there had a great time...and he'll probably be back. I'm not sure why this simple fact is ignored when it comes to Burmistrov. Everyone thinks he's some bad dude that defected back to Russia when the truth of the matter is that Chevy probably agreed with it.

Of course, they aren't ever going to say that, but all you have to do is read the signs to know that it probably is true, at least to some degree.

 

[sully1410]

I'm thinking the Jets would be happy with a 2nd round pick for Burmi at this point.

I think your probably wrong. Burmi went to russia to finish his development. that's what was said in presser, so its really the only evidence that we have about why he went.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Again, if the reason for him leaving was specifically because he didnt like his role, why would he be open to come back when a 3rd or 4th line role is the best he is going to get?

He has a better role now, for way more money, surrounded by people that speak the only language he knows well

Theres something missing here that him simply not liking the role doesnt explain.

Who said he was open to coming back to the SAME role? I heard he is open to coming back to the NHL, not necessarily the Winnipeg Jets.

I would hazard a guess that if and when the talks take place, should we state that his role with our team would be a third line checking role, or 4rth line duties with penalty and power play time, his agent and him will either request a trade, or stay in the KHL

 

[Sweech]

Again, if the reason for him leaving was specifically because he didnt like his role, why would he be open to come back when a 3rd or 4th line role is the best he is going to get?

He has a better role now, for way more money, surrounded by people that speak the only language he knows well

Theres something missing here that him simply not liking the role doesnt explain.

But was it because he didn't like his role or was it because he watched inferior players get more icetime and better linemates with little to no explanation?

If he had to play second fiddle to Little and Scheifele who score more than 14 points in a season maybe he wouldn't be upset that better players are playing in front of him.

I'm pretty sure you would be mad too if someone at your place of employment was given a promotion and a raise even though it was clear to just about everyone that you are a better worker and more qualified. Then when you ask your employer about it you get fluffed off. I'm fairly certain you wouldn't be too happy about that situation. Compare that to your employer promoting someone who you have to admit is actually better than you are currently at your job. I'm pretty sure your feelings on the matter would be very different.

 

[Sweech]

I'm thinking the Jets would be happy with a 2nd round pick for Burmi at this point.

Would we? Why help another team out by giving them a good player on the cheap?

We owe Burmistrov and other NHL teams nothing. If Burmistrov says he won't play for us we say, "have fun in the KHL". Keeping his rights doesn't create a negative atmosphere in the dressing room when the player is nowhere near the team.

Unless another team wants to send fair value in a trade we tell them, "Wait until he hits UFA then if you won't give us fair value, have fun waiting until that day and competing with other teams for his services".

 

[boanst]

But was it because he didn't like his role or was it because he watched inferior players get more icetime and better linemates with little to no explanation?

If he had to play second fiddle to Little and Scheifele who score more than 14 points in a season maybe he wouldn't be upset that better players are playing in front of him.

I'm pretty sure you would be mad too if someone at your place of employment was given a promotion and a raise even though it was clear to just about everyone that you are a better worker and more qualified. Then when you ask your employer about it you get fluffed off. I'm fairly certain you wouldn't be too happy about that situation. Compare that to your employer promoting someone who you have to admit is actually better than you are currently at your job. I'm pretty sure your feelings on the matter would be very different.

Maybe he just thinks Russian girls are hotter?