Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[Hale The Villain]

Very soon we won’t have giroux. And then what? I don’t want to throw cash at a goalie unless it’s saros. And that’s unlikely. A lot is unlikely.

We got 2 more years of Giroux at minimum. I think there's a good chance he continues playing in his late 30s and we could probably keep him for longer if we're somewhat competitive by then.

We'll still have Stutzle, Tkachuk, Norris, Batherson + Greig, Pinto. Shouldn't be that difficult to fill out the remaining top 9 spots. Wingers are the easiest position to find.

 

[Ouroboros]

He's just a completely unremarkable compiler - Jeff Skinner type. Streaky. Often has little to no impact on games. Not the sort of player you want to invest major money or cap space into.

 

[Beech]

Possibly, but you don't ask for a qualifying offer and no team is going to offer DeBrincat 9M a year.

If he wants to walk himself to UFA and bet on a rebound season he could take his 9M QO, but it's a risky proposition and he'd probably be smarter to take a long-term deal if teams are still willing to give him something around 7.5-8M per.

what bounce back?

The guy has never played on a team with a winning record. His playoff games came in that crazy bubble year (19-20). He is a MINUS player and getting worse. He is 5' 7". Will he hold up in 3-5 years time when he is 28-30, looses that 1/4 step and gets mashed!!

reckless abandon..that is how he has played so far in his career. Look at his primary linemate, Kane.. he too.. points and bad +/- the last 4-5 years. Have you watched the last 5 NYR games? NO where to be found. 3 points a -2.

Any team that wants to give him 7.5-8... good riddance.

 

[Golden_Jet]

…because Norris is injured…

DBC gave it away because Norris is injured, okay then , you go with that, seems odd logic too me.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

We got 2 more years of Giroux at minimum. I think there's a good chance he continues playing in his late 30s and we could probably keep him for longer if we're somewhat competitive by then.

We'll still have Stutzle, Tkachuk, Norris, Batherson + Greig, Pinto. Shouldn't be that difficult to fill out the remaining top 9 spots. Wingers are the easiest position to find.

Batherson don’t do defence. Yeah if pinto and greig follow some linear development and become top 6 players sure. But I don’t bet on that now. We have our core. Lock them in. And work with them.

You think giroux is going to be good until he’s 40? I hope so too. But doubtful. And then we’re out two top 6 wingers. And how do we acquire more? Trade chychrun or Chabot? And then how do we get our defence core again.

We’ve made a huge leap this year with this group. Keep them together. Don’t need to overthink it.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He's just a completely unremarkable compiler - Jeff Skinner type. Streaky. Often has little to no impact on games. Not the sort of player you want to invest major money or cap space into.

Yeah but. He’s never been like that in the NHL. (Obviously scoring is streaky). But everything else you mention. It’s not him. Outside of this season you’re not describing debrincat. He did have impact on games. He’s not unremarkable. He can control the O zone.

 

[swiftwin]

Batherson don’t do defence. Yeah if pinto and greig follow some linear development and become top 6 players sure. But I don’t bet on that now. We have our core. Lock them in. And work with them.

You think giroux is going to be good until he’s 40? I hope so too. But doubtful. And then we’re out two top 6 wingers. And how do we acquire more? Trade chychrun or Chabot? And then how do we get our defence core again.

We’ve made a huge leap this year with this group. Keep them together. Don’t need to overthink it.

Agree. I know the last week has been frustrating, but it's no reason to blow up the team when we're on the cusp of something good.

Just need a tiny bit more patience.

 

[Hale The Villain]

what bounce back?

The guy has never played on a team with a winning record. His playoff games came in that crazy bubble year (19-20). He is a MINUS player and getting worse. He is 5' 7". Will he hold up in 3-5 years time when he is 28-30, looses that 1/4 step and gets mashed!!

reckless abandon..that is how he has played so far in his career. Look at his primary linemate, Kane.. he too.. points and bad +/- the last 4-5 years. Have you watched the last 5 NYR games? NO where to be found. 3 points a -2.

Any team that wants to give him 7.5-8... good riddance.

It's not his fault he's played on bad teams during his career.

If he were just finishing some of the golden chances he's been getting there's no question he'd be able get 7.5-8M.

He's shooting around 5% below his career average. If he were shooting closer to his average he'd be around 30G right now and close to a PPG, which is what can be reasonable expected from him.

 

[Beech]

Yeah but. He’s never been like that in the NHL. (Obviously scoring is streaky). But everything else you mention. It’s not him. Outside of this season you’re not describing debrincat. He did have impact on games. He’s not unremarkable. He can control the O zone.

who are you talking about?

5' 7".. as he ages, he will be finished
a career MINUs PLAYER
played with Kane. A guy who signed a huge contract and then settled into a nice career of reckless offense and no success. See Chicago 2015 to today.

this guy is a one way, offensive player that is not be relied on. As he ages, he will be finished. He will however, sell tickets in non hockey markets, because flash and dash does..

181 goals, 181 assists.. they give 2 assist for every goal (well on most occasions). A talented, impactful player should have a solid 100 assists more.

 

[Golden_Jet]

who are you talking about?

5' 7".. as he ages, he will be finished
a career MINUs PLAYER
played with Kane. A guy who signed a huge contract and then settled into a nice career of reckless offense and no success. See Chicago 2015 to today.

this guy is a one way, offensive player that is not be relied on. As he ages, he will be finished. He will however, sell tickets in non hockey markets, because flash and dash does..

181 goals, 181 assists.. they give 2 assist for every goal (well on most occasions). A talented, impactful player should have a solid 100 assists more.

4th in points from that draft, behind Matthews, M Tkachuk and Laine.
9 points back of Laine.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Batherson don’t do defence. Yeah if pinto and greig follow some linear development and become top 6 players sure. But I don’t bet on that now. We have our core. Lock them in. And work with them.

You think giroux is going to be good until he’s 40? I hope so too. But doubtful. And then we’re out two top 6 wingers. And how do we acquire more? Trade chychrun or Chabot? And then how do we get our defence core again.

We’ve made a huge leap this year with this group. Keep them together. Don’t need to overthink it.

Batherson will make about 3M less than DeBrincat going forward and won't require a 7-8 year deal, which always carries risk even for a player in their mid-20s.

He's the easy choice to keep of the two, especially since Greig is our best chance for developing a top 6 forward internally and he's going to be a LW.

Alfie was a 2nd line quality player in his late 30s and early 40s. I think Giroux will be the same. Both produce because of elite IQs, not due to elite tools that fade significantly with age.

It's not the end of the world if we re-sign DeBrincat for big money, but just recognize that we'll have next to no cap space to improve the roster in other areas if we do so. We'd likely have to dump Joseph to even afford to sign a decent 1B goalie to split starts with Forsberg. Would mean still having a terrible bottom 6 and counting on rookies on cheap deals to fill out the D. It's not overthinking to consider that we may be better off spreading DeBrincat's 7.5-8M to other areas of the roster.

 

[Beech]

It's not his fault he's played on bad teams during his career.

If he were just finishing some of the golden chances he's been getting there's no question he'd be able get 7.5-8M.

He's shooting around 5% below his career average. If he were shooting closer to his average he'd be around 30G right now and close to a PPG, which is what can be reasonable expected from him.

Rob Brown and Mario Lemieux. Give me time, I can give you a list of a 100 Debrincats.

Too many things add up. Starting at, floater that rode the coat tails of a very talented team-mate on a team more interested in entertaining than winning.

181 goals, 181 assists... 2 assists per goal (for the most part). a good player should have had 100 more assists. Even Danny Heatley still had 50 more assists than goals.

 

[Sensinitis]

Bath has a better deal but for what he is bringing night in and night out , at both ends of the ice, is very replaceable at $2-$3 million a season cheaper. He has 7 ES goals all year. And he sucks defensively.

Do you really think you can find a 60-65 pt pace forward for 2-3M? Come on, dude

 

[Burrowsaurus]

what bounce back?

The guy has never played on a team with a winning record. His playoff games came in that crazy bubble year (19-20). He is a MINUS player and getting worse. He is 5' 7". Will he hold up in 3-5 years time when he is 28-30, looses that 1/4 step and gets mashed!!

reckless abandon..that is how he has played so far in his career. Look at his primary linemate, Kane.. he too.. points and bad +/- the last 4-5 years. Have you watched the last 5 NYR games? NO where to be found. 3 points a -2.

Any team that wants to give him 7.5-8... good riddance.

You think debrincat plays with reckless abandon?

 

[Beech]

4th in points from that draft, behind Matthews, M Tkachuk and Laine.
9 points back of Laine.

he could be first.... 9 playoff games.. the crazy bubble year. 2 goals, 4 assists

life time: 181 goals, 181 assists. they give 2 A per goal (for the most part). - 37 career (+/-).

that is not elite. That is offensive floater, not to be relied on. Add body size... Laine, Mathews and Tkachuk are big men

yes, Mathews and Laine are worse.. but they score more and while Laine is unreliable, Mathews is a PLUS player and has done well in the playoffs. And both are line drivers.

 

[bert]

Batherson don’t do defence. Yeah if pinto and greig follow some linear development and become top 6 players sure. But I don’t bet on that now. We have our core. Lock them in. And work with them.

You think giroux is going to be good until he’s 40? I hope so too. But doubtful. And then we’re out two top 6 wingers. And how do we acquire more? Trade chychrun or Chabot? And then how do we get our defence core again.

We’ve made a huge leap this year with this group. Keep them together. Don’t need to overthink it.

Why do so many sens fans think this teams rookies are fully developed? Its one of the strangest phenomenon's i have read around here. Is everyone that new? Pinto is second in rookie goalies... Have you not been watching all the other young players improve. Its literally happening with every single young player on this team.

 

[BondraTime]

It’s not even a question between Batherson and DBC.

Not much/any difference offensively. Neither is good defensively. One will cost 3+ million less.

 

[Beech]

You think debrincat plays with reckless abandon?

-23 ..only Batherson is worse.

Claude is a + 6... Plus 6...Tim a mere -1. Brady.. -7 and that is insane. He is the 875 player with his plus minus.. granted if you correct for games played he is much better. He is 298.

just about all the Bruins are plus players. The bulk of the Leafs, Hurricanes, Devils, Stars, Knights, Kings.

 

[Nova Stutzlia]

Maybe this has already been posted, but...

2018–19	Chicago Blackhawks	NHL	82	41	35	76	15	—	—	—	—	—
2019–20	Chicago Blackhawks	NHL	70	18	27	45	15	9	2	4	6	9
2020–21	Chicago Blackhawks	NHL	52	32	24	56	12	—	—	—	—	—
2021–22	Chicago Blackhawks	NHL	82	41	37	78

After his 1st 41 goal season he only scored 18 (in 70 games), so perhaps this season is not that unusual, especially after
changing teams/linemates.

Pointing out playing with Kane without acknowledging that he's been playing mostly with 57 and 61, rather than 9 or 18 is not a fair comparison.
I'm more for keeping him, except for the fact that everyone is tradable.

 

[Golden_Jet]

he could be first.... 9 playoff games.. the crazy bubble year. 2 goals, 4 assists

life time: 181 goals, 181 assists. they give 2 A per goal (for the most part). - 37 career (+/-).

that is not elite. That is offensive floater, not to be relied on. Add body size... Laine, Mathews and Tkachuk are big men

yes, Mathews and Laine are worse.. but they score more and while Laine is unreliable, Mathews is a PLUS player and has done well in the playoffs. And both are line drivers.

None of those 3 players have double the assists as goals, guess they are not elite either then.

 

[Korpse]

-23 ..only Batherson is worse.
View attachment 668436

Claude is a + 6... Plus 6...Tim a mere -1. Brady.. -7 and that is insane. He is the 875 player with his plus minus.. granted if you correct for games played he is much better. He is 298.

just about all the Bruins are plus players. The bulk of the Leafs, Hurricanes, Devils, Stars, Knights, Kings.

5v5

Debrincat/Batherson -11 469 min
Batherson without Debrincat -7 441 min
Debrincat without Batherson even 444 min

Tkachuk/Batherson -7 276 min
Tkachuk without Batherson +6 608min

Batherson without both even 161 min.

Batherson has not worked in the top 6 . The only time his head has been held above water was when he wasn't in the top 6. Unfortunately with Joseph injured there isn't really an option to bump Batherson out of the top 6.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

I'd flip him if he doesn't want to sign a 7.5-8M contract; even then I am hesitant
Pay 4,5M for a guy like Bertuzzi or Domi
Hell, maybe even go after Timo Meier if NJ don't sign him.

 

[DueDiligence]

Do you really think you can find a 60-65 pt pace forward for 2-3M? Come on, dude

It's not just points my man. He has only 7 ES goals in 66 games and is crappy defensively. I can give his PP minutes to Giroux and find a much cheaper two way forward who can score 15 ES goals a year.

 

[Tuna99]

It's not just points my man. He has only 7 ES goals in 66 games and is crappy defensively. I can give his PP minutes to Giroux and find a much cheaper two way forward who can score 15 ES goals a year.

And maybe make an impact when the game is just going on. How Many times this season have you been watching 5 on 5 hockey and said that ADB just had an amazing shift and was the best player on the ice - not often

 

[Hale The Villain]

And maybe make an impact when the game is just going on. How Many times this season have you been watching 5 on 5 hockey and said that ADB just had an amazing shift and was the best player on the ice - not often

To be fair he's a sniper and his job is to kind of wait in the weeds and try to get lost in coverage and get open for a scoring chance.

He's gotten lots of scoring chances this year. It's his finishing that has been the problem. No idea how he's messing up so many good chances.