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GDT: #46 | Flyers at Islanders | Thursday, January 16, 2025 | 7:30 PM | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

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Ghosts Beer said:
You think that Columbus team is a 50-win/108-point team with most coaches?

Only on this board could taking a team that was 34-33-8 the prior season, after starting 0-7 under Todd Richards before Torts took over, and then turning them into a 50-win, 108 point team the following year, be twisted into a slur on Torts.

Here's your 108 point team that apparently Torts "did nothing with." Yeah, what an embarrassment of riches when Cam Atkinson is your leading scorer at 62 points, and your 2nd leading scorer is Alex Wennberg. This team was basically Bob, a 19-year old Werenski, and some decent but not great players, and you're trying to spin it into underachievement. How about some objectivity?

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What did it get them?

I've said from before Tortorella is hired that he's a disaster for bad teams because he gets a lot out of slop in the regular season, but suppresses the good players on his teams. He harms talent while getting the most out of grinders.

He is a path to nowhere. Hence his results the last 20 years, even with some great rosters. Which he held back.
 
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VladDrag said:
For sure. If you believe Evolving Hockey, he was responsible for 18ish standing points above replacement level players. His career average is ~5, and his time in CBJ was 7.3.

The other thing you need to start looking at is goals for on the power play, note not xGF.
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And when evaluating a team after a season, it becomes a really good idea to just look at GF in aggregate. Who cares if you're 5th in xGF at 5v5 if you are 15th in total goals scored; at that point, clearly, something was deficient that needs examining and explaining rather than trumpeting empty moral victories
 
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Ghosts Beer said:
You think that Columbus team is a 50-win/108-point team with most coaches?

Only on this board could taking a team that was 34-33-8 the prior season, after starting 0-7 under Todd Richards before Torts took over, and then turning them into a 50-win, 108 point team the following year, be twisted into a slur on Torts.

Here's your 108 point team that apparently Torts "did nothing with." Yeah, what an embarrassment of riches when Cam Atkinson is your leading scorer at 62 points, and your 2nd leading scorer is Alex Wennberg. This team was basically Bob, a 19-year old Werenski, and some decent but not great players, and you're trying to spin it into underachievement. How about some objectivity?

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Yeah man, pathetic Cam Atkinson and his pathetic 35 goals. What a pathetic offensive team, their leading scorer scored 35 goals!

I can't remember, when was the last time a Flyers player scored 35 goals? Surely it was recently.
 
VladDrag said:
That season from Sergei Bobrovski was arguably the best goaltending performance since the RTSS dataset was developed in 2007-2008. If nothing else, it was by far Bob's best single season performance.
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Yeah, Bob had a terrific season. I wouldn't say better than Shesterkin in 2021/22. Or Carey Price in 2014/15. Or Tim Thomas in 2010/11. And a few others are in contention.

But that doesn't mean CBJ was a 50-win, 108-point team, or that Torts doesn't get any credit for achieving 50-wins and 108 points with that roster. Bob was the only star on that team.

It's arguably one of the biggest overachieving regular seasons in NHL history.

And not only do we have MJL66 not wanting to give Torts any credit, he's actively misrepresenting it as if Torts inherited a monster of a 108-point caliber roster and "did nothing with it." He called Torts' job in Columbus a "failure" when, in fact, that Columbus team overachieved for years.

It's simply an absurd anti-Torts bias.
 
Ghosts Beer said:
You think that Columbus team is a 50-win/108-point team with most coaches?

Only on this board could taking a team that was 34-33-8 the prior season, after starting 0-7 under Todd Richards before Torts took over, and then turning them into a 50-win, 108 point team the following year, be twisted into a slur on Torts.

Here's your 108 point team that apparently Torts "did nothing with." Yeah, what an embarrassment of riches when Cam Atkinson is your leading scorer at 62 points, and your 2nd leading scorer is Alex Wennberg. This team was basically Bob, a 19-year old Werenski, and some decent but not great players, and you're trying to spin it into underachievement. How about some objectivity?

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and look what happened to det when they added todd mclellan, but great coaches dont matter to some on here, it's adding mcdavid type of player.
 
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Beef Invictus said:
??

Gagner was one of the most underrated players in the league for a long while, and missing games was the chief reason he didn't hit 50 more than once.
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The season before he had 16 points in 51 games in Philly, the season after, 31 points in 74 games in Vancouver. 50 was his career high.
 
trostol said:
this team...as constructed...is not a 100 point every year team
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And no one has claimed THIS team is, with average goaltending it's probably a 90-92 point team.

A league average team with GF = GA is about .550 or 90 points.
Last year, with average Sv% GF/GA would have been something like 231/228
This season so far, with average Sv% GF/GA 140/129 which would put them closer to .600/98 points.
So 90-95 is a good guess of the team's "goalie independent" strength.

It's a very crude measure, to provide a back of the envelope estimate.

My fear would be Jones might see this post, then go to Danny and tell him that if we add a veteran goalie and veteran center this summer we can compete for a Cup.
And they probably could, in a two year window, where odds are they don't get past the 2nd round.
Then the cap hit, etc., would pull them down. Been there, done that (2019-20).

Hopefully, they stick with the plan.
 
freakydallas13 said:
Yeah man, pathetic Cam Atkinson and his pathetic 35 goals. What a pathetic offensive team, their leading scorer scored 35 goals!

I can't remember, when was the last time a Flyers player scored 35 goals? Surely it was recently.
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Dang, you got me!

The 50-win, 108 point team's best forward was Cam Atkinson!

Their only 30 goal scorer (35) and only 60-point scorer with a whopping 62! The typical leading scorer of a 50-win 108-point team.

And their 2nd leading scorer was a 21 year-old Alex Wennberg, with 59 points!

A guy whose 2nd and 3rd best seasons now at age 30 are 40 and 39 points!

3rd leading scorer? Brandon Saad with 53 points, tying his career high, also met under Torts the prior season.

4th leading scorer? Nick Foligno with 51 points. One of only 2x in his long career he broke 50 points, and one of only 3 times hitting 40 or more points.

Yup, this is the typical offensive makeup of a 50-win, 108 point team.

What firepower. How did they only manage 50 wins and 108 points??
 
Ghosts Beer said:
Dang, you got me!

The 50-win, 108 point team's best forward was Cam Atkinson!

Their only 30 goal scorer (35) and only 60-point scorer with a whopping 62! The typical leading scorer of a 50-win 108-point team.

And their 2nd leading scorer was a 21 year-old Alex Wennberg, with 59 points!

A guy whose 2nd and 3rd best seasons now at age 30 are 40 and 39 points!

3rd leading scorer? Brandon Saad with 53 points, tying his career high, also met under Torts the prior season.

4th leading scorer? Nick Foligno with 51 points. One of only 2x in his long career he broke 50 points, and one of only 3 times hitting 40 or more points.

Yup, this is the typical offensive makeup of a 50-win, 108 point team.

What firepower. How did they only manage 50 wins and 108 points??
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Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell. Might have needed an 10th paragraph.
 
freakydallas13 said:
Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell. Might have needed an 10th paragraph.
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You obviously think there's no need to tank if you think it's sufficient having a 35-goal, 27-assist, 62-point Cam Atkinson being a team's leading offensive player, and only 30-plus goal, 60+-point scorer. And the top-5 scorers being Atkinson, Wennberg, Saad, Foligno, and Gagner.

So that's good to know, at least.
 
Ghosts Beer said:
You obviously think there's no need to tank if you think it's sufficient having a 35-goal, 27-assist, 62-point Cam Atkinson being a team's leading offensive player, and only 30-plus goal, 60+-point scorer. And the top-5 scorers being Atkinson, Wennberg, Saad, Foligno, and Gagner.

So that's good to know, at least.
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Yeah man, I said those words exactly.
 
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