Adam Johnson passed away after accident during game - Mod edit: Do not post the incident in the forum

[Scandale du Jour]

And? If they know the risk, and choose to go without, why do you feel the need to make a demand?

Do you or your loved ones wear a helmet every time you ride a bicycle?

Yes, because it is mandated by law in Quebec.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Yes, because it is mandated by law in Quebec.

LOL.. exactly why I would never live in a place like Quebec.

You know what would be a better solution, the people who run hockey should have suspended Petgrave for a year when he did the same leg extension move to clip an opponent earlier. They should have been able to extrapolate the risk from such a reckless decision and it would not only have taught Petgrave a lesson, but also everyone else playing hockey.

And that neck guard isn't failsafe. It helps, but there is zero evidence that it would have prevented Johnson losing his life from a reckless play by Petgrave.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

And? If they know the risk, and choose to go without, why do you feel the need to make a demand?

Do you or your loved ones wear a helmet every time you ride a bicycle?

There's always the line of assumed risk

But there are instances where the "benefit of the collective" outweighs individual choice.

Seatbelts used to not be in every car. While I consider myself a Libertarian in some respects, I'm glad they are mandated, especially now that my kids are driving.

 

[Coastal Kev]

There's always the line of assumed risk

But there are instances where the "benefit of the collective" outweighs individual choice.

Seatbelts used to not be in every car. While I consider myself a Libertarian in some respects, I'm glad they are mandated, especially now that my kids are driving.

It’s all about “benefit of the collective “ correct? And yet motorcycles are legal…. Think about it.

People who so easily give up their freedom to make their own decisions aren’t bad or wrong, but they do cross a sacred line when they demand others to give up their right to choose.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

LOL.. exactly why I would never live in a place like Quebec.

You know what would be a better solution, the people who run hockey should have suspended Petgrave for a year when he did the same leg extension move to clip an opponent earlier. They should have been able to extrapolate the risk from such a reckless decision and it would not only have taught Petgrave a lesson, but also everyone else playing hockey.

And that neck guard isn't failsafe. It helps, but there is zero evidence that it would have prevented Johnson losing his life from a reckless play by Petgrave.

Well, that's your perogative. I could list 20 reasons why I would never move to a country like the USA. To each their own.

That being said, I fail to understand why you see mandating neck guards as impeding on your freedom. It is a pretty weird leap. I mean, I guess that, according to you, players should be allowed to wear any color of tape they want or have a sticker they choose on their helmet?

 

[Ugene Magic]

It’s all about “benefit of the collective “ correct? And yet motorcycles are legal…. Think about it.

People who so easily give up their freedom to make their own decisions aren’t bad or wrong, but they do cross a sacred line when they demand others to give up their right to choose.

But, this isn't out in a free world. These are businesses within their own confines and their own rules.

If you wish to play within their little world you need to fallow their rules.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

It’s all about “benefit of the collective “ correct? And yet motorcycles are legal…. Think about it.

People who so easily give up their freedom to make their own decisions aren’t bad or wrong, but they do cross a sacred line when they demand others to give up their right to choose.

Without deviating from the original topic, it's a cost/benefit analysis.
Much easier to make a car safer than it is a motorcycle. You get more marginal gains if you're making that comparison

Furthermore, you mention the word "freedom" and I don't think it's appropriate in this context.

You are not free to own a car without going through the proper channels (registering it, insurance, etc). You're also not able to play in a hockey league without conforming to its uniform and safety protocols. If the team you play for has black jerseys, you can't decide you look better in white. You also can't have the "freedom" to swing your stick around (well you can but there will be consequences)

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Some day I dream of drinking from the chalice of liberty by dying from blunt force trauma to the head in a bicycle accident.

 

[blindpass]

I don't take much stock in stuff like this. He's a teammate, of course he's going to stick up for him

These quotes were from Johnson's teammates.

 

[blindpass]

Most are not intently to prevent the player with the puck from skating.

He held up and stuck his leg out. This wasn't in a intent to kill or cut his throat, the intent was to impede Adam due to having the puck. This was reckless, and it got worse when his right skate hits Adams skates. That's 100% a penalty, which is worthy of a suspension if there's a injury due to a clear penalty. The game didn't get to finish so there were no penalties handed out. Had it gone on without serious injury it would/should be a penalty.

Now what do you do when a clear penalty leads to a death?

He should 100% not be allowed to play hockey again. Not just for sake of punishment, but for his own well being of being able to move on in life. Something Adam doesn't get that choice because of his bad choice he should be accountable for.

At worst, he may get in a civil lawsuit. But he won't serve time because he wasn't looking to kill him, that's just the result of his reckless play. One that is pretty compelling from the video. Grainy/blurred and all plus his history of how he plays the game.

I don't feel for Petgrave other than it may end up costing him the rest of life dealing with it. But he did the act and should be reduced reliving it in civil court.

This should also be example A: Why reaching for plays that are not there are a bad choice because, generally it's the other person who suffers for your bad decision.

My best guess at what happened doesn't include him deliberately sticking a leg out at all. A better video or different angle would certainly help, but to me it looks like he clips feet with the other player and loses his balance.

My argument here isn't that my interpretation is conclusive, just that this is the most plausible explanation. It certainly seems wrong to condemn Petgrave based on what we've seen, but I realize this is a losing battle when people are responding emotionally to something as horrific as this.

 

[blindpass]

That was the same argument about Visors and Helmets
I'm convinced someone would have split their head open by now if helmets were not mandatory

Like Bill Masterton?

 

[Kristopher Letang]

Yes, because it is mandated by law in Quebec.

No, it’s not.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

No, it’s not.

Pretty sure it is.

P.S.: Only in Sherbrooke it seems.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

Pretty sure it is.

P.S.: Only in Sherbrooke it seems.

Just checked, the municipal law in Sherbrooke is only for minors. So yeah, you can ride without a helmet if you want to.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Just checked, the municipal law in Sherbrooke is only for minors. So yeah, you can ride without a helmet if you want to.

I really dont get this one.... I shattered my elbow in a fluke biking accident. People are just too stupid for their own good. Basic safety equipment, depending on the activity, should be common sense. But common sense isnt common.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

I really dont get this one.... I shattered my elbow in a fluke biking accident. People are just too stupid for their own good. Basic safety equipment, depending on the activity, should be common sense. But common sense isnt common.

I mean I use the city bicycles in Montreal often, most of the time it’s not planned in advance and I’m not carrying a helmet with me everywhere.

We also have bike lanes almost everywhere, so it helps. I def think it should be recommended but I’m not in the "it should be illegal" crew.

 

[Zirakzigil]

I mean I use the city bicycles in Montreal often, most of the time it’s not planned in advance and I’m not carrying a helmet with me everywhere.

We also have bike lanes almost everywhere, so it helps.

All it takes is for you to lose your balance for a serious head injury, even at low speeds. Neck guards in hockey, bike helmets, seat belts in cars, the list is long of safety equipment thats readily available thats not used for no rational reason.

 

[Hanji]

Why not leave it up to the players? They know the risk and they’re grown men who should be free to make their own health/risk decisions.

If players ought to be free to make their own health/risk decisions, they should likewise accept the responsibility of not being paid for games they miss if their health/risk decisions results in needless injury.

 

[Zirakzigil]

If players ought to be free to make their own health/risk decisions, they should likewise accept the responsibility of not being paid for games they miss if their health/risk decisions results in needless injury.

Its interesting how there is contractual limitations on players about what extra curricular activities they can/cannot do, because of the injury risk. But equipment requirements have to be signed off by the NHLPA to be mandatory.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

All it takes is for you to lose your balance for a serious head injury, even at low speeds. Neck guards in hockey, bike helmets, seat belts in cars, the list is long of safety equipment thats readily available thats not used for no rational reason.

Yeah there’s a risk, just like in anything. I could also get a serious head/back injury while walking in the winter without boots on, should boots be mandatory between Dec 1st and April 1st? At some point, to each his own.

It’s dumb/common sense but do you really want the police to spend time going after people on bicycles without a helmet on? I’d rather they spend time policing real threats. If you don’t want to put a helmet on cool, if you die from head injury… it’s on you.

I’m for the neckguard btw but there’s a big difference between rules in a league and a gov law. The NHL pays its refs to enforce the rules (We don’t), I don’t want my tax money to be spent on chasing people on bicycles without a helmet on tbh. I feel like there’s way bigger issues we need to spend time and ressources on where I live.

I can see the NHL putting a new neckguard rule for new players just like the visors, and in 10-15 years you won’t have the issue anymore. I think that it’s the best way to go if you want to make everyone happy.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Yeah there’s a risk, just like in anything. I could also get a serious head/back injury while walking in the winter without boots on, should boots be mandatory between Dec 1st and April 1st? At some point, to each his own.

It’s dumb/common sense but do you really want the police to spend time going after people on bicycles without a helmet on? I’d rather they spend time policing real threats. If you don’t want to put a helmet on cool, if you die from head injury… it’s on you.

I’m for the neckguard btw but there’s a big difference between rules in a league and a gov law. The NHL pays its refs to enforce the rules (We don’t), I don’t want my tax money to be spent on chasing people on bicycles without a helmet on tbh. I feel like there’s way bigger issues we need to spend time and ressources on where I live.

I can see the NHL putting a new neckguard rule for new players just like the visors, and in 10-15 years you won’t have the issue anymore. I think that it’s the best way to go if you want to make everyone happy.

Im not saying police are going to go stasi on bike helmets, but its about educating people. Like going hiking without bearspray in the mountains. Educate people and if they refuse the risk is all on them. Being on your cell is illegal while driving, police dont go actively looking for people on their cell, but if you are in an accident you can bet your bottom dollar they are going to pull cell phone history to see if you were texting and driving.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

Im not saying police are going to go stasi on bike helmets, but its about educating people. Like going hiking without bearspray in the mountains. Educate people and if they refuse the risk is all on them. Being on your cell is illegal while driving, police dont go actively looking for people on their cell, but if you are in an accident you can bet your bottom dollar they are going to pull cell phone history to see if you were texting and driving.

Not having your helmet on a bicycle put nobody at risks but you so it shouldn’t be illegal imo.

Driving while texting puts everyone at risk. Not putting your seatbelt in a car puts other people at risk too. In the event of a car collision, an unrestrained person becomes a projectile.

Education is at home and school. Not with laws.

 

[Ugene Magic]

My best guess at what happened doesn't include him deliberately sticking a leg out at all. A better video or different angle would certainly help, but to me it looks like he clips feet with the other player and loses his balance.

My argument here isn't that my interpretation is conclusive, just that this is the most plausible explanation. It certainly seems wrong to condemn Petgrave based on what we've seen, but I realize this is a losing battle when people are responding emotionally to something as horrific as this.

You keep saying this, but I'm not "that" emotional. I'm calling it as I see it. You see something else, trying to wipe away him having any intent or culpability at all. You want to wipe away even that. Just skates clipping and "Freak Accident".

His actions is he intended to engage AJ. That was no accident. His actions just ended up being the end result in a poor choice/reach of a play that wasn't there for him. He choose to change his path, nobody else. You can keep turning a blind eye and live life behind plausibility's. He reached and caused a death. Say that a few times.

I'm not looking to condemn him the person, just his hockey career. Only AJ's family has the right to take it further. They have a case. His actions/recklessness caused his death. Even you can't explain that away with plausibility's.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Well, that's your perogative. I could list 20 reasons why I would never move to a country like the USA. To each their own.

That being said, I fail to understand why you see mandating neck guards as impeding on your freedom. It is a pretty weird leap. I mean, I guess that, according to you, players should be allowed to wear any color of tape they want or have a sticker they choose on their helmet?

Yeah I can't believe someone's arguing about "taking away your freedom" with regard to mandating neck guards in a sport where players are mandated to wear all sorts of protective gear.

 

[Darren McCord]

Yeah I can't believe someone's arguing about "taking away your freedom" with regard to mandating neck guards in a sport where players are mandated to wear all sorts of protective gear.

I only play hockey in my birthday suit. I will not be restrained