Adam Johnson passed away after accident during game - Mod edit: Do not post the incident in the forum

[Jacob]

inquest has started here in the UK

https://coronerscourtssupportservice.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/CCSS-EL_Inquest_Factsheet_Final29317221_3.pdf

If someone doesn’t watch or play the sport their opinion should be disregarded, even if they’re on my side on something.

 

[Jumptheshark]

If someone doesn’t watch or play the sport their opinion should be disregarded, even if they’re on my side on something.

she will walk in with no preconceived notions of anything and that could be a good thing. Even those involved in the game disagree on whether the player was trying to injury Adam or not.

 

[blindpass]

The problem is in part due to how twitter, sorry, x works now. It's worse than it was pre-Elon.

Lots of bots now too for some reason.

Your comment was the most bot-like one on this thread though. Nobody here was coming at it from that angle, why smear them?

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

He's probably not wired to accept any responsibility, to the contrary, he will portray himself as a victim and end up with a heartfelt 15 minute spot on ESPN.

It is hilarious when people talk like this about somebody they've literally never met.

You know how he is wired? Are you a mind reader or some shit?

 

[Coastal Kev]

It is hilarious when people talk like this about somebody they've literally never met.

You know how he is wired? Are you a mind reader or some shit?

yes

 

[Crosby2010]

I know that a normal reaction to something like this is a knee on knee hit. It happens. Dare I say even Ulf Samuelsson didn't mean to hurt Cam Neely on that play. It is a reaction, a player is seemingly going to go around you and you stick your leg out in a reactionary and last ditch effort type of way and your knees collide. People don't like that sort of play and neither do I, and while we debate on whether or not that is a deliberately dirty play I have always fallen on the side of it is unintentional in the way a high stick can be.

So for me watching the Johnson/Petgrave play I immediately wonder why the normal thing that usually happens didn't actually happen here. Why was his skate so high and in such a roundhouse motion? Because if you are coming across ice and see a guy in your sights you are going to try and hit him, but if he eludes you, sometimes the reaction you might have is to stick your leg out and not have your skate go 5 feet in the air. I just have never seen that play at any level of hockey in my entire life. There is the idea of getting "tangled" up and a skate comes higher than it should, but that was a kick. Not that I think he was trying to do that of course, but my question is why wasn't his leg on the ice and he sticks it out as a last ditch effort to prevent Johnson from getting around him - albeit it is still a penalty - instead of up in the air recklessly?

 

[blindpass]

I know that a normal reaction to something like this is a knee on knee hit. It happens. Dare I say even Ulf Samuelsson didn't mean to hurt Cam Neely on that play. It is a reaction, a player is seemingly going to go around you and you stick your leg out in a reactionary and last ditch effort type of way and your knees collide. People don't like that sort of play and neither do I, and while we debate on whether or not that is a deliberately dirty play I have always fallen on the side of it is unintentional in the way a high stick can be.

So for me watching the Johnson/Petgrave play I immediately wonder why the normal thing that usually happens didn't actually happen here. Why was his skate so high and in such a roundhouse motion? Because if you are coming across ice and see a guy in your sights you are going to try and hit him, but if he eludes you, sometimes the reaction you might have is to stick your leg out and not have your skate go 5 feet in the air. I just have never seen that play at any level of hockey in my entire life. There is the idea of getting "tangled" up and a skate comes higher than it should, but that was a kick. Not that I think he was trying to do that of course, but my question is why wasn't his leg on the ice and he sticks it out as a last ditch effort to prevent Johnson from getting around him - albeit it is still a penalty - instead of up in the air recklessly?

Maybe because he was off balance and falling and there was no controlled kick? I'm not saying I *know* this, but it seems like a reasonable hypothesis. Watching it back in slow motion makes it a lot easier to imagine there was intent, but this happened extremely quickly.

When I watch it and focus on Petgrave contacting the player he's trying to skate behind, it looks like a fall where the leg goes up because he's lost his balance. The "kicking" motion is the knee bending and springing back on contact.

If you look at the other videos of off balance players where the skate goes up, they often look strange too. Add another player in an unfortunate position and it would look similar.

Either way I think biomechanics and physics will ultimately provide the answer, along with clearer video to see if he trips or jumps.

 

[Crosby2010]

Maybe because he was off balance and falling and there was no controlled kick? I'm not saying I *know* this, but it seems like a reasonable hypothesis. Watching it back in slow motion makes it a lot easier to imagine there was intent, but this happened extremely quickly.

When I watch it and focus on Petgrave contacting the player he's trying to skate behind, it looks like a fall where the leg goes up because he's lost his balance. The "kicking" motion is the knee bending and springing back on contact.

If you look at the other videos of off balance players where the skate goes up, they often look strange too. Add another player in an unfortunate position and it would look similar.

Either way I think biomechanics and physics will ultimately provide the answer, along with clearer video to see if he trips or jumps.

Now I don't think he intentionally kicked him of course, I just think he was reckless to say the least.

 

[blindpass]

Now I don't think he intentionally kicked him of course, I just think he was reckless to say the least.

Yeah, I honestly don't know what he was trying to do. My best guess is he mistimed skating behind the other guy trying to throw a hit. Not sure I'd categorize that as reckless. You could do something like that a million times and not get an outcome that bad.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I don't get the reckless part yet. He'd need to be doing a lot more to be extra reckless in a, by definition, reckless sport such as ice hockey.

every league I've ever played in, has a release of liability to injury and death... And while those releases are not worth much legally, it helps suggest the very act of getting out on the ice is dangerous as shit.

AFAIK, to be reckless, you'd need to always skating with a leg straight up in the air.

People want some justice and like these buzzwords (negligent, manslaughter, reckless, criminal), but aren't using them in the very literal, dry sense, that actual law uses them.

 

[Crosby2010]

Yeah, I honestly don't know what he was trying to do. My best guess is he mistimed skating behind the other guy trying to throw a hit. Not sure I'd categorize that as reckless. You could do something like that a million times and not get an outcome that bad.

I get it, I am just trying to figure out why his skate was up in the air like that and it jerked around so quickly. There have been skate incidents like with Donald Audette, Richard Zednik, etc. where they are on the ice and the skate blade goes over their wrist or arm. That is a natural thing that can happen because a skate is always on the ice and can go over an arm if it is laying on the ice. Clint Malarchuk's incident was just two players getting tangled up going to the net, not even very fast, and a skate blade coming up and clipping the goalie. One in a million and a collision like that happens all of the time. With this play I am just wondering what caused him to do what he did. It just doesn't look natural.

I will say that I can still empathize with Petgrave right now. No doubt he is having sleepless nights and his life took possibly a permanent turn. This was a direct play with his skate. In the case of Espen Knutsen taking a shot that was deflected by Derek Morris (I believe) and going into the stands and striking a 13 year old girl was a much different story. It was more the hospital's negligence than anything that happened in the game. I still think the NHL panicked too much in putting the netting up, but either way in a case like this it was just a routine puck going into the stands, no one is at fault here. I don't think you can say with this play that no one is at fault here. The Malarchuk incident no one was at fault.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Friendly reminder, as has been posted elsewhere. Kindly do not post videos/clips/links of the incident. If people want to watch it its readily availably and easy to find elsewhere.

 

[66-30-33]

Friendly reminder, as has been posted elsewhere. Kindly do not post videos/clips/links of the incident. If people want to watch it its readily availably and easy to find elsewhere.

I found a video where it shows the clip (no gore) and they talk over it in a podcast for almost an hour...does that count? the crime scene 2 courtroom youtube channel. They show up to the moment of impact. The youtuber and a guy that played college hockey. If it's not allowed either just delete this post.

 

[Zirakzigil]

I found a video where it shows the clip (no gore) and they talk over it in a podcast for almost an hour...does that count? the crime scene 2 courtroom youtube channel. They show up to the moment of impact. The youtuber and a guy that played college hockey. If it's not allowed either just delete this post.

You can share the link. This incident falls under forum rule 5:

5) Offensive Content: This is a site for ages 13 and up. Minors will be viewing our content, and threads are searchable on the web. Do not post slurs and stereotypes, sexually-oriented material, gore (human or animal), or any other potentially objectionable material. Our users are diverse in all ways so please respect that. Do not circumvent the profanity filter with alternate spellings/characters. Simply type out the word and let the filter handle it. Wishing injury on players or other persons is considered offensive.

I know everyone isnt posting it deliberately to cause people harm. Its just one of those tragic incidents that can. And to avoid having to keep deleting/editing a chain of posts, lets just try and keep the clip of what happened off the forum.

 

[66-30-33]

You can share the link

Thanks.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I guess it is worth quoting what one of Johnson's teammates said for those that haven't seen it:

Victor Bjorkung, another member of the Panthers, echoed those sentiments in a Swedish interview with Expressen.​

​

“What Matt has experienced is unimaginable,” Bjorkung said, via a Google translation. “I don't understand how some people can behave, it's inhuman. I have texted him and expressed how I feel about everything and I support him. No one in our team thinks it's his fault, quite the opposite. We stand behind him.”​

​

Bjorkung said anyone who thinks Petgrave's actions were intentional "can go to hell."​

​

"It's so insane that people think it's deliberate," Bjorkung said. "Check the video, then you will see that it is an accident. Two skates collide right before, it goes so damn fast. There is no chance it is deliberate.​

I don't take much stock in stuff like this. He's a teammate, of course he's going to stick up for him

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't take much stock in stuff like this. He's a teammate, of course he's going to stick up for him

He's not Petgrave's teammate but Johnson's.

I also think when he say's intentional he means he meant to hurt/cut him which is the vibe by many.

The intent to engage him "is" there Just by the way he dramatically changes his angle of his skates.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

He's not Petgrave's teammate but Johnson's.

I also think when he say's intentional he means he meant to hurt/cut him which is the vibe by many.

The intent to engage him "is" there Just by the way he dramatically changes his angle of his skates.

Sorry, I was confused there
Regardless, the hockey community is a "Band of Brothers" thing. Not sure I've heard any players rip Petgrave through all of this.

 

[66-30-33]

I hope the Johnson family get the justice they deserve, too many injustices in the world. It wasn’t an accident per se, he meant to hit him but it’s a split second reaction gone the absolute worst case scenario. He didn’t mean to end his life, just to hit him most likely in a dirty manner. Who knows if he meant to knee on knee him, only Petgrave knows his intentions. Feel bad for Petgrave but you’re responsible for your actions regardless.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Sorry, I was confused there
Regardless, the hockey community is a "Band of Brothers" thing. Not sure I've heard any players rip Petgrave through all of this.

I'm sure it is still pretty raw for them, and ya, Band of Brothers probably is the perfect analogy of the circumstances.

I don't expect anything in the way of intent to hurt him will ever be proved beyond of doubt. That's just going overboard in a tragic situation. I also think he's off that skates clipped. There was no major hesitation for that to be true. He just made a bad decision, but one where it cost a life reaching. He could have just stopped or circled right and reengaged him.

If only people can look at the intent correctly and he only meant to impede him. Illegally by hockey standards, and that's where his punishment should be focused on. It's up to the family to go further from there if they want more punishment for that.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Also, the mandating neck guards should not have needed another player to die to mandate them.

Teddy Balkind died last year....



Yeah... way to drop the ball to everyone.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Also, the mandating neck guards should not have needed another player to die to mandate them.

Teddy Balkind died last year....



Yeah... way to drop the ball to everyone.

Why not leave it up to the players? They know the risk and they’re grown men who should be free to make their own health/risk decisions.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Why not leave it up to the players? They know the risk and they’re grown men who should be free to make their own health/risk decisions.

That was the same argument about Visors and Helmets
I'm convinced someone would have split their head open by now if helmets were not mandatory

 

[Ugene Magic]

Why not leave it up to the players? They know the risk and they’re grown men who should be free to make their own health/risk decisions.

This isn't an adult rec league. Even then, it's pretty stupid. The league mandated helmets.... Case closed. You want to play in this league we don't want to traumatize all involved in another freak accident/death wherever it might unfortunately happen.

Take stupid out of the equation.

 

[Coastal Kev]

That was the same argument about Visors and Helmets
I'm convinced someone would have split their head open by now if helmets were not mandatory

And? If they know the risk, and choose to go without, why do you feel the need to make a demand?

Do you or your loved ones wear a helmet every time you ride a bicycle?