Post-Game Talk: #79: Flyers at Red Wings, Wednesday, April 6, 2016

[jabba2]

Not gonna be popular in here but Giroux deserves some critisicm as well, even though he isn't a main issue.

Dude has not been able to kick the door down and control a big, game since GM 6 of the 2011 playoffs against Pitt where he leveled Crosby and scored in one shift.

You get paid like a big boy and get the big fancy C you should be noticeable every night despite extra mins and playing against star opposition.

He simply hasnt.

Agree with this. Also dont think Simmonds is a good linemate for him. Schenn has been decent with Giroux, but I think Voracek-Giroux and Raffl/Schenn should be the main top line. Simmonds should probably be moved.

 

[Beef Invictus]

We have too many players that simply are not making good plays with the puck on a consistent basis..Jake, MacDonald, Streit especially. Their sticks are where plays go to die.

Yep. And that's severely problematic when we need essentially our top 6 and Ghost to drag us into the POs. With Schenn, Simmonds and Voracek lost in the woods and possibly also being mauled by bears, well...our top 3 is left and that's not tenable, especially when the players you mentioned are being living anchors.

 

[flyershockey]

I judge Giroux based on the impact he makes versus the opposing team's best forward on a night to night basis. And more often than not, he's better than that guy. He's not going to carry the offense every night. It's too hard to score in this league anymore for one guy to do it all. You need 12 guys to be contributing. We'll actually 18. The defense is just as big a part of the offense these days. The biggest problem is that there's only a couple of guys on this team that can really drive a line, Giroux and Jake (when he's on his game). The rest are passenger types.

 

[Krazed Flyer]

Someone on here said it. Even if we do make the playoffs, we are going to be gassed. Not sure if we could muster up effort to continue.

 

[healthyscratch]

It's disappointing but this is what they are, save a few great periods scattered here and there and Mason lately, they've been playing the same way for most of the year.

 

[Rebels57]

Making the playoffs would be a significant achievemen for this lineup and for Hakstol.

They cant let that slip away.

 

[Rebels57]

Yep. And that's severely problematic when we need essentially our top 6 and Ghost to drag us into the POs. With Schenn, Simmonds and Voracek lost in the woods and possibly also being mauled by bears, well...our top 3 is left and that's not tenable, especially when the players you mentioned are being living anchors.

Step 1 should be scratching Gagner for Laughton and reconfiguring the lines.

What can we do with the D pairs?

 

[hckyplayer8]

The guy has done an admirable job; he's not Wayne Gretzky.

For a player picked 22 overall and leads the NHL in points since 2010; you need to find criticism elsewhere.

What does where he was drafted have anything to do with anything?

Fact in he wears the C and gets paid a far superior paycheck than most so it's natural to expect more from him.

He's played great but gets paid the salary of a guy that should be your big game clutch.

He hasn't been.

 

[Beef Invictus]

What can we do with the D pairs?

Sell the bulk of them into slavery in the Middle East?

 

[Garbage Goal]

What does where he was drafted have anything to do with anything?

Fact in he wears the C and gets paid a far superior paycheck than most so it's natural to expect more from him.

He's played great but gets paid the salary of a guy that should be your big game clutch.

He hasn't been.

Yeah, if only he were more like Danny Briere.

Said nobody, ever. Clutch is right up there with intangibles in terms of overused, vaguely defined, and completely illogical fan topics.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He hasn't been.

Yeah?

 

[healthyscratch]

This love affair and desire to see Laughton because he could be the answer confuses me. And admittedly frightens me a little too.

 

[TheKingPin]

Only if they get to OT in a game. Detroit and Boston have the ROW edge on us which is the first tiebreaker.

But let's just win the next game and then we could talk about the weekend.

Need to win the next game to have a realistic chance. The good news is the isles and pens may have nothing to play for by this weekend. Either way we need to get a win tomorrow and an OT point this weekend.

Jake and Simmonds are both underperforming and look lost. I would switch both of them. G doesn't look great either but that could be about his line mates not performing

 

[achdumeingute]

This love affair and desire to see Laughton because he could be the answer confuses me. And admittedly frightens me a little too.

I want to see Laughton because Gagner is terrible and I think Matt Read went into witness protection program starting last season.

I have hope that Laughton can become some kind of useful someday.

 

[TCTC]

This love affair and desire to see Laughton because he could be the answer confuses me. And admittedly frightens me a little too.

The 3rd line was noticeably better with him IMO. Gagner isn't very effective if he doesn't have players with size to "protect" him.

I'm not saying Laughton will be the difference between winning and losing. But he'll help to make the 3rd line more useful and harder to play against.

 

[Philadelphia Ducks]

Got a bad feeling about the next 3 games...really hope Stolarz starts tomorrow...if I recall Mason always plays bad vs TO..atleast in TO, he's been pulled a few times vs them.

 

[achdumeingute]

Need to win the next game to have a realistic chance. The good news is the isles and pens may have nothing to play for by this weekend. Either way we need to get a win tomorrow and an OT point this weekend.

Jake and Simmonds are both underperforming and look lost. I would switch both of them. G doesn't look great either but that could be about his line mates not performing

Simmonds looks the same as always, streaky, relatively weak ES player.

This team lacks top end SCORING winger.

We have too many setup guys and bangers.

 

[healthyscratch]

I don't disagree with yas about Gagne and wouldn't have a problem subbing Laughton for him at all, or any of the bottom 6 really, it's just that Laughton has done just as little as Gagne, we probably wouldn't even notice the change.

 

[Philadelphia Ducks]

Simmonds looks the same as always, streaky, relatively weak ES player.

This team lacks top end SCORING winger.

We have too many setup guys and bangers.

we're one bobby ryan away from the SC

 

[Garbage Goal]

I want to see Laughton because Gagner is terrible and I think Matt Read went into witness protection program starting last season.

I have hope that Laughton can become some kind of useful someday.

The 3rd line was noticeably better with him IMO. Gagner isn't very effective if he doesn't have players with size to "protect" him.

I'm not saying Laughton will be the difference between winning and losing. But he'll help to make the 3rd line more useful and harder to play against.

Gagner has had some big moments in the latter half of this season and he's a big reason why we got out SO win against Washington. Not that he hasn't been bad since then or he doesn't have obvious flaws.

Point being, this board loves to rotate around to a new whipping boy and a new savior every time the old ones go out of rotation. Manning has been incessantly complained about before, so has Umberger, so has VandeVelde, so has Read, so has White, and now Gagner too. All of them have been benched at various parts of the season though at times when the team started performing poorly. Half of those guys mentioned have had some key production at times too as far as wins go.

Hakstol has been pretty clear so far in that he'll change the lineup when it starts losing and that he's not unwilling to bench any single depth player if he has to. Now people are complaining about Gagner and calling for Laughton.

At some point when are people just going to actually accept the fact that this team relies on the consistent performance of about three or four players to win games and the roster, on the whole, only has about half a forward group and half a defense group that's worth anything outside of goalie. Laughton is a young guy and we're lacking at forward with our prospects so he should get a shot at some point, but he's shown absolutely nothing in his NHL career or this season that says he's going to live up to anywhere near what his expectations were.

So, I get why people want the switch to happen, but with the way some people talk it makes me wonder what coach they've been watching all season and what kind of roster they think we have. The coach changes the roster when they start losing and our roster isn't very good and has poor depth.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'd actually rather keep Gagner and sub out VdV for Laughton but that seems to be entirely impossible.

 

[hckyplayer8]

Yeah, if only he were more like Danny Briere.

Said nobody, ever. Clutch is right up there with intangibles in terms of overused, vaguely defined, and completely illogical fan topics.

High impact plays, by high impact players during significant games is a hard concept?

Ask a group of people of what they consider the assets of a clutch player they will give you some close form of the above.

It's what got Jeff Carter ripped on these boards for years.

Now suddenly it doesnt exist in concrete form?

 

[hatcher]

High impact plays, by high impact players during significant games is a hard concept?

Ask a group of people of what they consider the assets of a clutch player they will give you some close form of the above.

It's what for Jeff Carter ripped on these boards for years.

Now suddenly it doesnt exist in concrete form?

g isn't as good as carter. Voracek is an out of shape flake too. 8 yr deal for a dud.

 

[Garbage Goal]

High impact plays, by high impact players during significant games is a hard concept?

Ask a group of people of what they consider the assets of a clutch player they will give you some close form of the above.

It's what for Jeff Carter ripped on these boards for years.

Now suddenly it doesnt exist in concrete form?

No because what you just described is the exact definition of coincidence. When most people talk about clutch they don't restrict it to high impact players either. A collection of great players makes a great team. A great team makes the playoffs a lot and goes deep. Players on great teams who go deep in the playoffs a lot get a lot of chances to score important goals and eventually somebody is going to score them and it's usually going to be one of their best players since those are the people who get in the position to score the most.

Or you can just place it all on some completely intangible and lazy concept like clutch.

Jeff Carter is a repeat Cup winner since leaving us as a key member of the LA Kings top six. Not the best example to bring up.

 

[kingjmusicman]

1. It could still be down to a point 24 hours from now.
2. I would've gladly taken this situation at the start of the year.
3. Still in good shape if no 3 pt game between Bos/Det, control their own destiny....