Prospect Info: #70 - Carter Mazur (LW)

[Killerjas]

To be fair, having ties to Draper is not a valid point. It's just about as invalid of a point as you could come up with.

As for the others, they are all convenient points of criticism for people who never heard of the kid or watched a second of his play at the time of the draft.

They, by themselves, are not reasons to not draft a kid. They are factual statements, but they have very little to do with Mazur as a 19 year old hockey player. He's an overager? Okay, but did these naysayers watch him in either his first or second year of eligibility? Did they realize his physical growth and development or his improved quality of play? Do they care if he's pretty good at a number of things without being really good at anything?

They are only valid points if you don't want to use an ounce of actual analysis. Which is the norm for a lot of you.

Why are we dodging the fact that he was barely ranked by scouts? Hindsight is 20/20 but there were valid reasons why people were a bit puzzled he was drafted at 70th overall. Its not like most scouts are just looking at numbers and saw an overager with 1 good season.

The fact that he developed so well after the draft is in my mind not relevant to the fact that he was a surprise pick.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Why are we dodging the fact that he was barely ranked by scouts? Hindsight is 20/20 but there were valid reasons why people were a bit puzzled he was drafted at 70th overall. Its not like most scouts are just looking at numbers and saw an overager with 1 good season.

The fact that he developed so well after the draft is in my mind not relevant to the fact that he was a surprise pick.

A surprise pick doesn't mean a bad pick. Or an invalid pick. Or a wrong pick.

 

[MBH]

More info without the bias of being your son is different. People were talking about Mazur like his last name is Draper.

You can still make bad decisions/picks with more info, sure. It's just generally not a bad thing.

It's pretty hard for me to separate the Mazur and Draper picks.
Mazur going as high as he did as an overager just seemed off to me.
I'm gonna wait until Mazur.
Often times, after a draft, i can find good information that helps justify a pick.
I really couldn't with Mazur.

 

[newfy]

Why are we dodging the fact that he was barely ranked by scouts? Hindsight is 20/20 but there were valid reasons why people were a bit puzzled he was drafted at 70th overall. Its not like most scouts are just looking at numbers and saw an overager with 1 good season.

The fact that he developed so well after the draft is in my mind not relevant to the fact that he was a surprise pick.

Being puzzled and saying we'll see how this plays out, is a lot different than the rage going on on this board after the pick.

You know what scouts did have him ranked? Yzermans, and hes been the best in the business drafting for a decade. So why not give it a chance before people shit all over the pick completely, or else you end up looking stupid. But the same people didnt learn from Larkin or Bertuzzi either so its not all that surprising

 

[OHL Fan]

Being puzzled and saying we'll see how this plays out, is a lot different than the rage going on on this board after the pick.

You know what scouts did have him ranked? Yzermans, and hes been the best in the business drafting for a decade. So why not give it a chance before people shit all over the pick completely, or else you end up looking stupid. But the same people didnt learn from Larkin or Bertuzzi either so its not all that surprising

Agree totally.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It's pretty hard for me to separate the Mazur and Draper picks.
Mazur going as high as he did as an overager just seemed off to me.
I'm gonna wait until Mazur.
Often times, after a draft, i can find good information that helps justify a pick.
I really couldn't with Mazur.

Overagers don’t only get selected round 5 or later anymore, my dude. Several are round 2 and 3 picks. And I think there was one in the first round recently.

Pick good players where they are available.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Enough with the "Draper pick" nonsense

If he is good.. he is good

That's all

 

[Henkka]

Overagers don’t only get selected round 5 or later anymore, my dude. Several are round 2 and 3 picks. And I think there was one in the first round recently.

Pick good players where they are available.

This corona-era also was different for overagers. In former years, there was more data to compare players full years after and before the draft.. Now there was shortened seasons and some didn't play regular games for a year at all.

I don't think this overager -case as problematic for last 2 drafts. But now we are reaching the normal again. Next draft +1y overagers have full seasons from past season etc.

Surprise findings like Amadeus Lombardi, those times could be behind. It would be nice if we got one or two of those kind of guys.

That could be the thing what separates us from others. I've been thinking since Yzerman took the team over, that what is his next level to find an edge in team-building.

This could be one, think out of the box. Short contracts for everyone to manage the cap in a superior way is another.

These are things he didn't do at Tampa, and he just seem always new ideas and ways to build and find an benefit versus competitors. Like put Håkan draft the 1st round etc. Superior change vs. Holland era.

 

[MBH]

Overagers don’t only get selected round 5 or later anymore, my dude. Several are round 2 and 3 picks. And I think there was one in the first round recently.

Pick good players where they are available.

Even as an overager, he went to high.
I was all about taking Rashevsky high in round 2 in his D+1 year - because he's got eye-popping skill.
Because I read the HP report and said - Let's go get this mofo.
I only saw Mazur in the top 100 on one list - probably my worst guide that year (McCagg?).
It ain't like they didn't see him because the other guys on his line (Matthew Knies and Hunter Strand) were both rated higher - Strand never did get drafted).

The important part of what you said is "pick good players."

Time will tell if Mazur was the best or among the best available at 70th overall.
And that's really the only debate there is.

 

[Frk It]

Even as an overager, he went to high.
I was all about taking Rashevsky high in round 2 in his D+1 year - because he's got eye-popping skill.
Because I read the HP report and said - Let's go get this mofo.
I only saw Mazur in the top 100 on one list - probably my worst guide that year (McCagg?).
It ain't like they didn't see him because the other guys on his line (Matthew Knies and Hunter Strand) were both rated higher - Strand never did get drafted).

The important part of what you said is "pick good players."

Time will tell if Mazur was the best or among the best available at 70th overall.
And that's really the only debate there is.

Do you assume a margin of error of zero for HP?

The guy who runs it (Mark) will literally tell you "good scouts get it wrong all the time".

But you buy his guide and expect it to be flawless? You need to re-set your expectations for the draft or you are just going to get pissed off with whatever we do every single year.

I've bought their guide every year since 2015? I have a stack of them in my office. They have gotten a lot of stuff right. But they still miss stuff all the time. They are great at what they do (I think they are the best), but I don't expect them to be perfect. They miss players every year. The amount of ground you have to cover for the NHL draft is insane.

They also seem to really focus on first-time eligibles. They don't list many overagers in their top 100 in general. That could definitely have had something to do with it as well.

 

[MBH]

Do you assume a margin of error of zero for HP?

The guy who runs it (Mark) will literally tell you "good scouts get it wrong all the time".

But you buy his guide and expect it to be flawless? You need to re-set your expectations for the draft or you are just going to get pissed off with whatever we do every single year.

I've bought their guide every year since 2015? I have a stack of them in my office. They have gotten a lot of stuff right. But they still miss stuff all the time. They are great at what they do (I think they are the best), but I don't expect them to be perfect. They miss players every year. The amount of ground you have to cover for the NHL draft is insane.

They also seem to really focus on first-time eligibles. They don't list many overagers in their top 100 in general. That could definitely have had something to do with it as well.

I assume anyone can be wrong.
HP is definitely the best guide I've read. Most guides dip into fanboy writing. Half the EP "scouts" write in a way that kills their credibility (they sound like HFfanboys trying to glom on to a player's success)

But I know they can be wrong.
I know they miss stuff.
Look how many Red Wings' picks weren't even mentioned by HP this year.

But usually, when a pick comes out of left-field, I can go find a scouting report out there - between HP/EP/Draftin' Europe/Smaht Scouting - that makes me go - "Oh. OK. I definitely the upside now."

Couldn't find much on Amadeus Lombardi. Went to EP and found his report.
Boom. Then when you see him do what he did in the 3-on-3 tournament, you're like, OK, I see it.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Even as an overager, he went to high.
I was all about taking Rashevsky high in round 2 in his D+1 year - because he's got eye-popping skill.
Because I read the HP report and said - Let's go get this mofo.
I only saw Mazur in the top 100 on one list - probably my worst guide that year (McCagg?).
It ain't like they didn't see him because the other guys on his line (Matthew Knies and Hunter Strand) were both rated higher - Strand never did get drafted).

The important part of what you said is "pick good players."

Time will tell if Mazur was the best or among the best available at 70th overall.
And that's really the only debate there is.

Going third round as an overager is not that high, and not as uncommon as you think. Josh Doan was an overager at 38. Was buried on a very deep Chicago team in the USHL but in his D+1 became a leader and was drafted.
Yegor Chinakov was a 2019 eligible. Played on Russia's U18 WJC squad but had a mediocre draft year. Fast forward to 2020 he's picked 21st overall by Columbus and now plays in the NHL.

Also, you are quite literally doubting Mazur, a player who had a great rookie NCAA season, played a major part in his team winning a national championship, and is playing 1st line wing for team USA that will probably get no less than a silver medal at the WJC and saying, "time will tell if he's among the best."

Show us a guy picked after 70 that is clearly doing better.

 

[MBH]

Going third round as an overager is not that high, and not as uncommon as you think. Josh Doan was an overager at 38. Was buried on a very deep Chicago team in the USHL but in his D+1 became a leader and was drafted.
Yegor Chinakov was a 2019 eligible. Played on Russia's U18 WJC squad but had a mediocre draft year. Fast forward to 2020 he's picked 21st overall by Columbus and now plays in the NHL.

Also, you are quite literally doubting Mazur, a player who had a great rookie NCAA season, played a major part in his team winning a national championship, and is playing 1st line wing for team USA that will probably get no less than a silver medal at the WJC and saying, "time will tell if he's among the best."

Show us a guy picked after 70 that is clearly doing better.

I don't care that he's an overager. I care that he lacks skill.

Mazur hasn't "accomplished" anything relating to NHL potential.
That Denver team is loaded with guys who'll never play.

 

[Frk It]

I don't care that he's an overager. I care that he lacks skill.

Mazur hasn't "accomplished" anything relating to NHL potential.
That Denver team is loaded with guys who'll never play.

Why would the US team put someone on their 1st line for the WJC that lacks skill?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I don't care that he's an overager. I care that he lacks skill.

Mazur hasn't "accomplished" anything relating to NHL potential.
That Denver team is loaded with guys who'll never play.

This is a bad faith argument. It's pretty clear you can't have an open and honest discussion about this prospect.

 

[MBH]

Why would the US team put someone on their 1st line for the WJC that lacks skill?

Familiarity with Knies.

 

[RabidBadger]

Familiarity with Knies.

I doubt that. That may be something to try in initial practices or to jumpstart a line that isn't working.

Nate Leaman makes pretty solid choices with his players. If Mazur gets bumped to 3rd line then I can buy that. I've watched enough Providence and team USA to trust Leaman puts the players where they need to be.

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

Mazer just goes out and scores 2 goals.
Good game for Mazer. The announcers can't stop talking about him.
.

 

[topdawg]

This guy is a stud. He is a right handed tyler bertuzzi. Knows how to play the game, great hockey iq. Hope he can gain a step but this guy is a hockey player

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

Mazer assisted on goal #4 also.

 

[SirloinUB]

NoT eNoUgH sKiLl

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

2 Goals 1 Assist Keep it up Carter.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

IDK guys, maybe they shouldn't have drafted him after all

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

IDK guys, maybe they shouldn't have drafted him after all

I know right? Only 2 goals 1 assist. The bum couldn’t get 5 by himself.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Does anyone other than Captain Bob still think Mazur was a bad draft pick at #70 OA?